Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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What's wrong with me treating your post as a word of a judge?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This is the "judge instinct". I'll read Radiant's take later (pretending it matters), but I need this to be elevated above instincts and set in words, that would nicely match what Rygar and Blaster Master happen to have.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There is an option to completely prefer PAL to NTSC, and by definition, it should be possible to switch to PAL if the requirements for that are met. But there's no list of requirements. Blaster Master and Rygar are just presented as examples, and I don't think they are as much better than their NTSC counterparts as this imaginary requirement wants. They just happened to be made on PAL, and that's how they are automatically good examples of PAL preference.
And there are two ways to look at this: 1) past mistakes don't justify bla bla; 2) history of having PAL as a main branch is about as long as the site's, so we have to consider these 2 cases precedents instead.
In the Movie Rules, it should be clearly stated that different regions might qualify for different branches if they meet the Moons requirements. These requirements, unlike the ones I mentioned above, are well known and clear, no problem with them. It should just be mentioned, so people understand what's going on and what to expect.
Branching different regions separately has also happened already a few times, it just remains unspoken, and hence confusing.
Finally, maybe we need to clarify the Moons requirements for different branches too? I keepcoming up with my own, and I dunno if they are even good enough.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Reposting what I pointed out in the submission thread:
Let's see...
Different glitches themselves aren't a bad thing. And if a PAL game tries to compensate for the slower framerate, it's hard to clearly tell if it is what causes those glitches (not impossible probably).
I can't easily find any explanation on why European Rygar is justified. The USA pub just says that the glitches are different.
Also, different region versions don't have to obsolete oneanother.
Now about "significant technical and/or entertainment merits". Neither the rule, nor the above cases clearly define what is considered significant here, but the votes for this run are fine. Differences in glitches and difficulty probably affect both tech and entertainment aspects, but don't exhaust them. I guess it should be first figured out what merits are expected from a run to justify different region versions published alongside each other, then we could evaluate the significance of what we have here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I know it was based on the current rules, and that's what I dislike: instead of actually discussing whether or not the rules still reflect the spirit of the law, this matter was completely ignored despite of many people demanding rules revision.
As for Moons, in isolation this game is not different enough. But to have a grounded talk about support that we've seen here, I'll go and count all the opinions first, hopefully tomorrow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So this is how one does it: one counts the supporters, ponders the numbers, looks at the rules, and refines them to reflect why those who are wrong are wrong.
I know, and a lot of people consider the rules outdated, or at the very least unclear.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Rejecting this pleases the smallest amount of people. What do we have the Moons for at all?
A huge part of the audience disagrees with you.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'm talking about differences that can qualify for separate branches in Moons. Marginal timing differences don't matter if the run claims to become a new branch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OK.
I don't see opinions of the audience being addressed in the judgment at all, despite of this being a clear Moons case. "A large chunk of people will not be happy" doesn't count, it explains nothing.
Also half of the thread was posts blaming the rules for being unclear and outdated, this hasn't been addressed either. Are the rules perfectly clear and fine?
About asking other judges. Their opinions seem to have changed after being presented the info about marginal differences in how long playable and non-playable scenes take, and probably some other facts. I know the actual gameplay differences (which is the only thing that matters when we compare optimization attempts), and after seeing this comparison of marginal timing differences regardless of what the actual gameplay is, I state how much my opinion have changed: it didn't. And my opinion is consistent with all I've been saying in this thread:
This judgment is absurd.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'd say it's a justified modification (for the science) if it can't really be restrained otherwise. I still hope it can be.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I figure no one actually read the thread I linked?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There's been some progress with this idea recently.
Post #451802 and most of that thread.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Before I read the entire post, I'll just quickly say that changing the rules about PAL is my demand too, and I mentioned Moons exactly because I say PAL TASes should work as branches in Moons.
Exactly. I suggested him to make a thread calling for rule clarification, but he never did. Now we will have to clarify the rules, thanks to this submission. "Absolutely clearly no, because of this 15yo* rule no one can explain" is an extremely weak point for a judge to make.
*Found it. Just 5 years old. Yet it just says "generally not preferred", it became "generally not allowed" 3 years later. It's interesting how the rule was becoming stricter and stricter by mere clarification.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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moozooh, you're missing how the Moons tier works. We don't have to fully document every requirement attempting to make the rule perfectly objective. It's not possible. The way to resolve this is to rely on the audience opinion as one of the factors.
If the majority of the viewers feel some number of branches has too many similarities, they can be combined, if a solid explanation can be found, that would feel right to the majority of the viewers and to the judges.
Sometimes, when there's still ambiguity after such evaluation, staff members can have a dedicated talk about it, which would involve experience of each of them, so that can become the basis for a decision if all other factors betray us.
This approach is called case-by-case basis.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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14:29 muggphone1 Guys
14:30 muggphone1 I missed my bus because the driver drove off 2 min too early
14:30 muggphone1 Now have to wait 30 min next bus. Entertain me?
14:34 TASVideoAgent New submission! Go and see #5641: Hutchinson's GB Dr.Franken in 13:03.27 at http://tasvideos.org/5641S.html
14:34 TASVideoAgent сменил тему комнаты на: Official IRC channel of TASVideos.org | Latest publication: [3502] GB Mega Man: Dr. Wily's Revenge (JPN) by Mothrayas & Tremane in 16:56.52 >> http://tasvideos.org/3502M.html | Latest submission: http://tasvideos.org/5641S.html
14:34 TASVideoAgent New topic by TASVideoAgent (WorkB: #5641: Hutchinson's GB Dr.Franken in 13:03.27): http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/19486 [a:1]
14:35 muggphone1 Ok guys.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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One problem with ACE is that we can't continue outdoing ourselves technically, because, as has been noted lately, there are basically only 2 ways to go ACE:
- Streaming AV of arbitrary relevance and with little to no limits
- Hacking the game and playing its improved version
Both have been done live, the former doesn't even suggest any room for improvements to make it more entertaining anymore. The latter might have some potential, but still needs tons of dedication.
ACE means no limit to me. And when there's no limit, it's hard to appreciate the work, because it gets hard to impress. To be impressed, the viewer should understand the limitations and then understand how they are overcome, in a creative and unique way.
Boulder race was a great example of combining TAS, real-time play, novelty, and actual human emotions and entertainment. Dunno if something like this can be invented again, so I'd vote for some non-ACE glitchfest, as broken as [1955] SNES Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 "playaround" by SDR, Thevlackdemonn2294 & Dark Noob in 30:28.38.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I only mentioned that as our general judging policy, and to address the idea of considering different region versions different games.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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We don't want all PAL versions to be acceptable alongside NTSC versions. If you consider different region versions different games globally, you can't limit the acceptability of PAL (or other regions). We want the movie base that looks as good as we can achieve, quality, not quantity. But we don't want to limit the quantity if quality is high enough.
To me, the only way to sanely change the PAL rule is to allow it on the case-by-case basis. Sometimes it will obsolete NTSC, sometimes it will be a new branch, sometimes it will be rejected. Various factors should be weighed in: internal gameplay differences, difference in the TAS content, entertainment value, technical value, audience opinion, maybe some more.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If we consider them different games, that would have to remove the limit entirely. We don't want this thing to lose limits. We want it to improve the movie base.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.