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Sounds good!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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scrimpeh wrote:
  • The previous posts being visible in the "create reply" page was immensely useful. Currently, I always find myself opening a second tab with the current topic to have the previous posts visible. Alternatively, the quick reply box could be reimplemented.
  • Move the Minor Edit checkbox to the "Post" button
Agreed!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I think this list is worth maintaining, also I added Sonic 3. The question is whether we want to only flag full-movie encodes, and IMO it shouldn't be required. Just a single level, and then if a full game is encoded, the link gets replaced. That way we showcase more of this content and potentially encourage more of it even if it's single-level, which is still very cool. There was an idea of making console verification info for movies more exhaustive by having a separate page with all the related docs and videos, so having something like this for atlas encodes may also be cool. And yes I think until then we should just put atlas video links right into pub descriptions.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's important to remember that when assessing quality of a judgment, time is a useless metric. If you are being properly thorough, and preparing and delivering a judgment takes you 9 non-stop hours in total, it doesn't matter if you do it all in one go or distribute across several months. It's not like the 72 judging timeout means you should spend exactly 72 hours on your judging work. If you're spending this many hours on judgment work, I'm actually worried about you! You don't have to overwork that hard just to keep things going! We're wannabe perfectionists here, but if you're this focused on a movie, you might as well make your own submission instead. Generally, it doesn't have to be so complicated that it needs insane amount of research. If the situation is so counter-intuitive, then the decision will also feel way too weird, and the community may not approve. Let alone the time it will take you to recover. And of course one can deliver a rushed judgment even after several months. It's really easy, just ignore everything. And if the community is upset and disappointed as a result, congratulations, neither grace period is enough for you! So yes, first and foremost, the key point here is the very culture of judging. 3 days won't guarantee the judgment is good. 1 hour won't guarantee the judgment is bad. What is important is taking due time on your own research, while hearing people out and addressing their concerns. And there are a few things to say about audience feedback in general. The tier system meant that for every single judgment we need to ask people to provide feedback on how entertained they are, to properly determine the tier. We can use votes and ratings of previous submissions, or of similar games, but feedback could still change over the years drastically while the movie is nearly the same. And there was a problem of people only giving positive feedback in the thread, and then only negative feedback in publication ratings. And also a problem of kinda wearing off, because a lot of submissions would sit there with little to no feedback and you have to repeatedly ask people to vote just to determine the tier. And then they don't have enough energy to participate in talks regarding site policies where community is meant to have a huge say. So the tier system was a lot of fun. The class system greatly reduces hard dependency on viewer feedback for whatever is acceptable to Standard, because let's be real, the feedback focused system was unsustainable. And we're not rejecting more, we're accepting more, so people must be happy that we don't explicitly need as much feedback anymore. But it's still important not to make people worry: "Hey so we don't matter anymore?". Even tho the overall trend feels like less people care about posting in submission threads lately (and I don't have the stats data over the years), it's still in our control if we want this trend to continue, or we want to encourage more people to participate somehow. Giving everyone who's not instantly around, an opportunity to share their opinion and be heard, is important on the long run. It's how you deserve people's trust. And there are also viewer's expectations that we're meant to meet with our decisions. My own feeling of when enough time was given for feedback is usually several weeks, of course granted people are actually posting! But does this mean we want the grace period to be several weeks just to make sure the judges remember to give people time? I don't think so. It shouldn't even depend on time at all. It should depend on experience and instinct, instructions and training, basically culture. And that in turn means, that we shouldn't be too hard on judges if they make a mistake. We should be helpful and nice, so they don't get overwhelmed either, because that job is too important to let people burn out. It's not like the site is collapsing and nothing can be helped even if a wrong decision goes through. We want it to be a learning curve, so we want to be encouraging and motivating. In the end, the judgment timeout is about the human factor. It's about giving people freedom to participate even if they don't want to do it. It's about acknowledging that even after several months on the bench there may appear some revolutionary post that flips everything upside down. It's about realizing that we can't be waiting for it every time, because most of the time it doesn't happen. There are no guarantees, and there should be no punishment. If somebody is being repeatedly disappointing, we invest effort in trying to help that person fix the flaws. But if there's no damage caused, it's not a big deal. So we should stay balanced. I haven't voted.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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keylie, why do you take the detour to Catacombs of Ur (and to the thorns area) in the middle of the run? The RTA record goes straight to Cradle of Death, and counting from that point you only kill the final boss 5 seconds sooner. Judging by how quickly you navigate, is it really worth it to go to that other area? The movie is overall still shorter than RTA of course, but still.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yeah that's an important thing to outsource.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Dwedit wrote:
My opinion: They are NES games. They are revised versions of games (often with enhancements) that have been slightly modified to run on an arcade machine which is 99% the same as the NES. They were even emulated by NES emulators (using the iNES format files and Mapper 99) long before MAME supported the games.
They are still Arcade games too. They were meant for standalone Arcade cabinets and they were coin based. So we're not being inaccurate by marking them this way.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Unobsoleted Kirby's Avalanche.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Just a note before I forget: today a post from Spike game me a great idea for a replacement to Moons name: Miscellaneous (or Miscellanea). I think it perfectly gives the idea of a set of goals that can be literally anything (as long as they're different than Standard class goals).
Goals that can be literally anything is Playground (quite literally). Moons (or Showcase) is goals that are entertaining and different. Misc feels like what Playground is for as well (SRC calls Misc what we want to call Playground): random community driven ideas. Calling an officially supported, approved, and published class Misc feels bland (almost like the name Moons lol). We want it to sound encouraging!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'll watch them ASAP but the article about the second game lists the new mechanics, that are also hopefully there in the port. And yeah, less levels is a silly reason for obsoletion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Another common goal is "inbounds". We just define bounds as "whatever the game doesn't want you to go past", be it death trigger or surface collision.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I agree that using in-game codes to showcase unique gameplay is a great reason to have a movie in Moons. The main problem with codes is when all they do is give you unfair advantage. If that's not the case, there are things like [2558] SNES Super Metroid "GT code, game end glitch" by amaurea, Cpadolf, total in 14:52.88 where the code not only makes it very entertaining, but also really hard and intense! If we don't make it clear that we encourage people to use in-game codes to showcase unique, entertaining, and challenging gameplay, we should tweak the rules to say it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yeah I figured this out. VS games have archive names starting with vs, and VS is also in their game titles. So yes we know that they run fine in MAME. Also some of them have multiple screens. So since they are proper Arcade images, and iNES versions seem to have been created manually, we'd have to add extremely specific logic to parsing MAME-RR movies and movies from MAME in Bizhawk, if we want them to show up as NES, VS, or any other system. This would introduce questionable complexity into the system and feel like a hacky workaround. Instead of hacking the system, we should instead have UI on the site that displays related games on other systems, especially if the ports are nearly identical and there are cross-system obsoletions. We will work on this when we redesign game based navigation to be more usable. In terms of emulators and site logistics, marking VS games as Arcade is the cleanest approach.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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One hundred wrote:
I also strongly dislike the idea of depending almost entirely on YouTube.
It was always Youtube and Archive. Torrents are seeded only by Archive. But guess what? Archive always creates torrents anyway, so it's still possible to use them to download whatever is present in its item. So we were kinda doing this extra work all the time, while instead we could have relied on Archive's torrents. We just don't link to Archive items, only directly to files. So maybe this part can be improved.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I used libsteam_api.so from https://github.com/rlabrecque/Steamworks.NET/releases/tag/15.0.1 and got the movie to sync.
CRC32: 413441BE
MD5: 25BF523623B5EE8E82B047327F9C1341
SHA-1: 74B93A8111FC19AF999459A5C230C498047CFDA7
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player (1238)
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I always used to overshoot with waiting and with doing things steadily and properly, but that in turn results in other problems. Judging becomes a boring routine task that you have to overwork to get right. Which leads to having less energy on it over time, and here we are, at 11 unclaimed movies in the queue, and 12 judging underway. As long as the spirit of the decision is correct, we have to reduce overworking to get some energy back, and to be more productive. As the rules are steadily getting more forgiving, potential minor mistakes should be less of a deal if the decision is correct in nature. I'll ask what other judges think about this.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Do those movies have identical gameplay? I think that should be the only reason for cross-game or cross-port obsoletion, not whether they are "close enough".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fortranm wrote:
I suppose this has more to do with technicalities than rules, but has anyone tried if it still syncs once the frame rate setting is adjusted?
Memory wrote:
Please ONLY suggest submissions if a rule change has occurred and we missed this particular submission. [...] I would like people to in their posts link the submission in question and also list what rule change should affect judgment of this submission.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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How do you define a clip then?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Crash41596 wrote:
A majority of glitches that save a good chunk of time are not clips, but level loops, which can be done anywhere there is a death trigger you can fall into.
You still clip past the death trigger.
Crash41596 wrote:
I very much like the idea of "All Levels". I am not sure where that would leave the ant's cave level, it's a level where you do a side quest that is completely optional. The level itself is not on the map, but accessed via the enchanted earth level.
The phrase "all levels" doesn't mention how you would approach clipping. You may clip everywhere and still just go and complete every level. Or you could use no clipping. Or some clipping. When deciding on branching we aim for maximum difference. Currently the difference between the 2 available branches is 1/3 of all levels being skipped by clipping through a damage barrier. It could arguably be considered major if it fundamentally changed gameplay in the rest of the levels, as arkiandruski said. But as long as clipping is allowed in them, they look mostly the same. Given the skipped amount and the visual difference of what is left, I can't personally call this a major skip glitch. It's still a question of how much time difference will be there if no clipping was utilized at all. But even if it would be not much, the movies would definitely look and feel different enough to have separately. Again, this is what we're aiming for. But without an agreement to obsolete the current publication I also don't want this movie to obsolete it. I'd rather obsolete it later if "no clips" is made and there's an agreement. If "all levels" is made instead and it avoids clipping, that would be awesome too.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If we call Moons Showcase, and then we call the Demo class Showcase, that would be stupid. We don't want those 2 to be the same thing. If we call them using synonyms that would also be confusing because people would not know the difference. We're closer to having the Demo class that we were back then, and my current proposal is Playground, because it's basically a creativity sandbox. I don't want to rename Moons to something that consists of several words. If the Demo class is called Playground and it's submission-only, renaming Moons to Showcase feels good to me. If we call the Demo class Showcase, renaming Moons to Showcase as well feels bad to me. The thing with "Additional goals, Exotic goals, Unconventional goals, Atypical goals" is that Playground is also for those, just for super esoteric ones that don't even fit into Moons. And yes Moons will remain an entertainment based class because it's how we accept non-standard goals.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This was the initial talk in #bizhawk https://pastebin.com/aDYCUPjE And then I asked slamo and Dacicus to provide some insight on what's needed https://pastebin.com/KUdpvZBC I haven't tested how 86Box works with different media types and how many it supports at once, but here's a list of files PCem works with:
  • ROM files for a given machine. They also determine what will be available in emulated hardware options, may not be relevant for hawk.
  • NVR file that stores battery info of the BIOS. Not every setup needs it to launch. Not sure if any setup will create this while running. UPDATE: If NVR is missing and that firmware uses it, it pulls it from a default NVR file for that firmware and starts from that
  • 2 floppy disks can be loaded at once. The system can record to them. Swappable.
  • 1 CD can be loaded at once. Can't be recorded to? Swappable.
  • 1 HDD can be loaded at once. The system records to it a lot. Can't be swapped? UPDATE: Some firmwares can use up to 4 hard drives (3 if you're using a CD drive).
  • Textual config file for machine description, listing what devices it consists of and where on the host they are. Each configured machine has its own file. 86Box has only one file for whatever the current config is.
PCem also supports zip drives and cassettes, but for games those don't seem to be needed. So writes to those files will need to be captured and stored in a save RAM style, so a new movie could start from that. This is important because if you install something without capturing emulated timing fully, resulting hashes will be wrong and the movie may desync. This is why we require game installation to be inside a movie (either main or separate). Games come in the form of media images or in the form of file bunches. In order to load the latter into PCem one needs to create a compatible image on the host (for example using mkisofs). Only then such an image can be sent to the emulator. So since so many things have to be loaded at once, I thought that maybe extending functionality of Multi-disk Bundler could work? It allows us specify the platform, so it works fine as a core loader. And it even already supports loading several game files at once for Sega. What it doesn't have is knowing the difference between loading in parallel and swapping. For most cores it's the latter (PSX disks for example). It could also calculate hashes (for huge files - on demand). This would help with setting up MAME probably (tho simply renaming the game zip to something that launches the MAME core is a great idea too), and most definitely with Amiga emulators since they can load several mediums at once too. In terms of porting to hawk, PCem is has been on hiatus recently and we can't tell how active it will remain in the future. While 86Box has a huge team and is very active.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Okay so for the purpose of any potential future reorganization, it should be okay to have these movies as VS (neither NES, nor Arcade), and then we can list them alongside other systems that are close to them. So we need the parser to have VS and to be able to read it from FCEUX and NESHawk movies. But I never checked if they store this info... EDIT: Wait isn't Pinball (VS).nes just a conversion into an actual NES ROM? What's the Arcade equivalent if there is any? Arcade ROM called pinball is not relevant it seems. MAME doesn't even run Pinball (VS).nes: Fatal error: Unimplemented Mapper 99 Okay yeah I guess we'll have to keep those as NES and VS as game version. Too much overhead infrastructure to implement in emulators and parsers otherwise.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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