Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Yes that is strange . I will do some testing and try to track down what is going wrong.
EDIT:
Ok so all my testing was in the intro stage. I'm guessing this is an area that uses the other drop list you were referring to since I tried your RNG that should give a 1-up and got nothing.
So I'll get to a region that has the proper list and test from there.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Hmm sorry I wasn't specific enough , by first 3 I mean address wise, not numerically.
So the RNG bytes are AA BB CC DD
AA BB CC determines item drop
So mod24 doesn't work since that is like using BB CC DD
When you calculated the table did you do it this way?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
I have an idea what the problem might be I think.
Only the first 3 bytes of the RNG effect the item outcome as far as I tested.
so RNG's larger then 2^24 need to be dealt with by only considering the first 3 bytes of the number.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
what answer is it giving?
Is it working on lower RNG values and only failing up to that point?
You could also write a little code to just subtract 5699 from the RNG repeatedly until it gets the modulo result to test it.
By the way why are you starting at -1?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Randil's run was 7 frames ahead in level 1 (which is roughly 17000 frames long.) Baxter's original was really solid.
So in this case, old doesn't mean poorly optimized. Same with Blublu's Rad Gravity run.
As a side note, it is interesting how standards have evolved in TASes like this one. In the original, Adelikat, Arc, and Bisqwit all gave Baxter's run a technical rating of 9. By today's standards though the run seems like nothing special.
EDIT:
just four seconds
Oh yeah, the run is only an improvement of about 100 frames. So I guess the other ~2 seconds comes from how the site calculates movie length.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
oh cool, you found something!
Well now, as you play the game, if you know when the RNG updates, you can kind of predict the future right? For example you will know what the RNG will be 30 frames into the future, and will know how far you are from getting a 1-up or any item you want and how much you need to adjust?
That was my original thought anyway, but maybe the cycle you found can be useful in other ways?
EDIT:
To expand on this a bit. You already know the RNG seed for each level and how the RNG formula works, so if the RNG simply updates once per frame, what you can do is map out the item that will appear at every frame in the level simply by running the RNG code and matching the result to the table you made.
Then you just need to kill an enemy on the right frame, which you now already know.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22561027219611492
Here is my first attempt. I saved more frames then what I thought since the trick also works in the conveyer belts and saves about 3 frames each jump in that area. I'm glad I found this trick, as this run was one I was concerned about actually being able to improve.
I also included Diman's jump.
EDIT: second attempt much more optimized then the first one
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
I found a small trick in the river level that lets you jump out of river without losing your horizontal velocity for so long.
Basically just let go of right for a frame when you start jumping.
It saves about 2 frames every time you do it. There are lots of jumps in that level, so it should add up pretty quickly.
I suppose I will continue off Randil's WIP and see what I can do. Also have to remember to add Diman's trick at the end too.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
@samsara: I think that would be a good idea. Well, if more people are interested in taking on runs. Right now its just my pipe dream, so it would be a pretty lonely channel. 8D
I found a trick in Jackie Chan that looks like it will save about a second in the river level, so looks like that is the next target!
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
I was about to start working on this run, but here it is already done!
Is there anything still keeping this from going to the workbench? I can help out if anything needs work.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Samsara wrote:
Would this project benefit from something more actively collaborative, like a Skype chat or a dedicated IRC room?
I didn't really have anything formal in mind beyond this thread, but I'm certainly willing to team up with anyone who wants to work on one of these. Especially some of the longer ones, as runs of more than an hour or so seem much more rare recently.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Here is my latest WIP, I am pretty comfortable with it up to the last boss.
I can't seem to improve blublu's last boss fight, but it seems like it should be possible.
Maybe a Wizards and Warriors II situation where more eyes looking at it will lead to quick improvements.
So anyone who wants to give it a try can be co-author, I really wonder how much it can be improved.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22507545392735988
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Nicos wrote:
great improvement, yes vote
on the emulator side in tehberral's encode the second counter (lag counter) seems to only count loading zones and not slowdowns ( frame drop or real LAG? )
am i correct or do i get something wrong there ?
oh good point I forgot to mention this.
The game doesn't lag in the traditional sense, it just does less each frame when there is too much to keep track of. I'm not sure of the details, but I think it is something like only updating a fixed number of actors on the screen per frame.
I'm not sure of any other examples of games that do things this way to compare it too. Can anyone think of any?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
The item you have to go get in the final level is a key. Using that key on the locked door where I drop the teleporter triggers a cutscene, which is what tells the game you are in the final area. (You might notice that an enemy that is standing right next to me disappears after the cutscene.) So in this particular instance it is not skippable.
You land on that wall by turning around after dropping off the platofrm above you, a rarely used move by itself. Another glitch in a game full of glitches.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Thanks for the encode Tehberral!
Taking damage, let's see...
A few times taking damage knocks you back in a convenient way, such as falling down to a platform without having to turn around, take a step, turn back around, and drop down, you'll see this in level 2.
A few times it is for the invincibility frames that let you get by a group of enemies, you'll see this in the tower.
One time it was unfortunately just unavoidable at the start of level 7, although it wasn't so bad as it knocks you forward to a convenient spot.
And yes combat in this game is not fun at all, it is incredibly rare that killing an enemy is worth while, the only time this happens is in level 2 with one of those sentry spheres, that would otherwise prevent you from doing a wall clip, and the enemies in level 1 that would otherwise shoot you, but they only take 1 shot.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
well despite some hiccups with bizhawk I managed to finish the run.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22405820945784714
may or may not be more I can improve, I will have to look it over a few more times before submitting.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Bizhawk keeps throwing this message after a fatal error of some kind.
Any idea what is going on? Version 1.9.4 running sega genesis.
The error occurs when I am playing back a movie in TASstudio after loading a savestate.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
I am trying to use bizhawk 1.9.4 TASstudio and am noticing some significant slowdowns (to 4 fps) after getting a few minutes into the run. The game is Flashback for sega genesis.
Is there a way to limit green frames? I can't seem to find the setting. Also what does clock throttle setting do?
Any other tips to speed up TASstudio appreciated.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
Well after a while here finally is WIP 1. Even though the file is long, only the first minute or so is in there.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22316796280079805
I guess I needed a break, after umihara kawase I had run out of motivation.
Plus the controls of this game took me a long time to actually figure out.
But anyway the rest of the run I think will go pretty quick now. I am a couple of seconds ahead of the old run I believe, pretty much copying the movie I posted, but with slight improvements.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(3602)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2749
Location: US
ALAKTORN wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
One question I have wondered about is if there is another practical way to TAS besides emulation, like hardware direct TASing?
High quality Mario Kart Wii TASes have been made on the Wii itself. There are cheatcodes to copy ghost input and slowdown gameplay. TASing on emu is far better if possible, though.
Oh, that is a cool feature, too bad more games don't have that.
Also for the Rockman ZX rng question, do you know the addresses for the IDs for the drops? I'm pretty sure only 3 bytes are involved in picking the drop, so maybe you can make a save state one frame before killing an enemy, and make a LUA script to simply enumerate through the ~16 million RNG possibilities to get a complete table? It won't help in manipulating those RNGs to come up, but maybe you can see a pattern.
Bizhawk keeps throwing this message after a fatal error of some kind.
Any idea what is going on? Version 1.9.4 running sega genesis.
The error occurs when I am playing back a movie in TASstudio after loading a savestate.