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Alyosha wrote:
C64 core in BizHawk defaults to PAL video mode. Also, I believe many of the readily available ROMs are also PAL.
@DrD2k9: I would strongly recommend that you research the ROM you are using before trying to change the emulation settings. C64 appears to be quite a bit messier in terms of ROM cataloging then other systems. Also, check other sources to see if the game sounds correct and seems to be playing at the correct speed, as these are often obvious signs of using the wrong region.
Using PAL isn't necessarily wrong, and NTSC is not necessarily faster.
Thank you for the info.
As it stands, I've become rather discouraged regarding the C64 and TASing. As much nostalgia as this system holds for me, and as much as I feel it deserves its place on the site for history's sake (even if that means just in the vault), I am struggling to find enjoyment in doing the C64 TASes compared to other systems.
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SmashManiac wrote:
Isn't it possible to avoid waiting for the last barrel through RNG manipulation here?
I cannot deduce the RNG well enough to manipulate it.
I can't figure out anything regarding the barrels or conveyors.
I believe the spawn point and movement of fireball enemies is impacted to some degree by your position on the screen, but subtle movements don't seem to have much impact.
I can't get breakpoints to work in the debugger. So attempting to reverse engineer the RNG is currently not an option. This leaves trial & error as the only option (at least for me--someone else may have other ideas/skills that I'm not aware of).
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adelikat wrote:
DrD2k9 wrote:
Cancelling--I need to check PAL/NTSC settings.
There are no PAL/NTSC settings...
Please don't cancel for that.
Under the C64>Settings menu there is a tab for Sync settings where PAL/NTSC can be changed. PAL was set as default on my BizHawk.
Unfortunately I can't just switch it on the .tasproj files i've already made, but will have to manually redo one of my C64 games in the other setting to see if it makes a difference.
This submission being short, I can at least check to see if there's much difference using it for comparison.
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SmashManiac wrote:
Voting No for bad port and lots of waiting.
Also, I'm concerned that you're not sure about the fill order. A bot should be able to easily test all 120 combinations per round.
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't have the knowledge/skills to use bots to TAS my games for me.
Spikestuff wrote:
Comparison to the Sierra Version which is more of an interesting and upbeat version.
I know the Sierra version is better (it's the version I had as a kid). I was planning on doing both versions at some point.
I don't expect many C64 games to have Moon-level entertainment value, but I do feel that they should have their place in the vault for history's sake.
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Due to the concerns of this run being incomplete due to not finishing the level loop, I'm going to cancel this submission. I will likely revisit this game in the future (even if it isn't the most entertaining watch).
Unfortunately many C64 games aren't very exciting to watch, but I feel that the system still deserves some TAS runs even if they are only vault worthy. The C64 is part of video gaming history and deserves it's space on this site if only for history's sake.
As far as the PAL vs. NTSC situation. I didn't realize my BizHawk settings were for PAL instead of NTSC.
That being the case, I'm going to have to revisit all of my Commodore 64 submissions as they've all been done with default settings...which means that they are all likely in PAL and may be faster if converted to NTSC.
Ugh. Now I have a ton of unexpected work to do.
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feos wrote:
And I'm not even sure my strat is fully optimal.
In working through this game using your strat of luring Abobo further to the left before attacking, I discovered a glitch. It's possible to control Abobo's flight with controller inputs from the 13th through 26th frames after the attack button press. This allows you to position Abobo close by for the next attack almost immediately as soon as he stands up.
It will save over 600 frames per Abobo fight if it works for all of them.
Unfortunately this doesn't work for all the regular enemies.
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TASVideoAgent wrote:
Fog</a>: After further deliberating with other judges, this cannot be accepted for the following reasons: <p>1) The goal choice is not quite clear. <p>The best possible goal choice that this run might be aiming for is maximum score. However, we do not know the highest possible score in this game with absolute certainty. If this game is aiming for fastest time, then taking scratches in all non-timed based events would be faster than actually completing the event. <p>2) The run is not entertaining enough for Moons tier. <p>Because the run's entertainment value is near-zero, this is automatically judged under Vault rules. This makes the rules much stricter in terms of goal choices. <p>3) The run does not match with Vault rules. <p>If comparing to the goal choices mentioned above, it does not neatly follow in line with what we allow in Vault. Vault requires either the fastest completion time, or the absolute maximum score possible (and proven to be such). Anything else is not allowed. <p>With everything above, this run must be rejected. </div></div></blockquote>
I guess I'm still new enough at this hobby that I sometimes struggle to differentiate human goal vs. TAS goal.
Thank you all for your input/thoughts/criticisms. I appreciate the scrutiny when it's offered with an explanation. It will only help me improve for the future.
I only wish I could guarantee that I won't make these kind of errors-in-judgement again. Hopefully they'll at least be less often.
Whoa...I didn't even think of drawing him into the room more.
Its weird how we sometimes don't even realize we're not trying all possibilities.
There are multiple Abobo fights where your strategy could be applied. If it saves that many frames each time, it will significantly shorten the submission.
It will take some time to re-work. I suggest a delayed decision. Or I could just cancel this submission. Or you could reject it. Any of those will suffice.
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This game brings up an interesting thought on what constitutes completing a game to its end. For some games the end-game goal is easy to define: save the princess, kill the last boss, reach the "The End" screen, etc.
Many in the TAS community have found amazing ways to get to these goals such as game-end glitches.
This game is different. It will essentially run to the "end" every time it's started regardless of how poor a player is.
Considering the intent of the actual event of Decathalon in track and field is highest cumulative score, I don't see a point in not going for the best score for any events just to save TAS time.
"Highest Score" is thus the main game-end goal for a human player.
Given that you can't be disqualified, anyone playing should eventually reach the "end" of the game no matter how poor a player they are (and assuming they aren't just leaving the character standing still).
So the way I see it, "Highest Score" is really the only true game-end goal. Thus the game-end goal for a TASer as well.
I hope that makes sense.
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feos wrote:
I always only check stuff when it's almost too late. Does aiming for max score cost any time for this game? Or fastest time automatically gives you max score?
Yes going for a max score takes longer time than a run that doesn't care about score.
Unlike Track and Field on NES, failure to score in any particular event does not disqualify you from continuing on to the next event. Therefore, no minimum requirements are necessary to 'finish' an event. Most non-timed events could be completed faster with lower scores or scratches. Specifically, the High Jump and Pole Vault events could both be scratched for 0 points each and result in a significantly faster game completion as the bar would never raise to a new height requiring more attempts.
All Speed based events yield higher score as the time to complete them decreases.
As little entertainment value as this run may offer, a shorter version simply full of scratches and poor performance just to achieve a shorter TAS would be even less entertaining in my opinion.
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zoboner wrote:
At 9.40, i seen your character have more horizontal speed or is it simply attracted by the loading screen?
The increased speed only seems to occur while the background is also moving. It happens multiple times in the run. These are also the times when lag frames are most present. I couldn't otherwise reproduce this horizontal speed.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Basically this TAS is asking a simple thing.
Do you like quirkiness or not?
I prefer the quirkiness even if it is slower because the entire point of your TAS is going for in-game time not TAStime.
I'm voting No on Entertainment.
I can't disagree with you. The quirkiness of that publication makes it more entertaining.
I considered the quirky/humorous angle. Unfortunately this game doesn't have the funny animations like in NES Track & Field, so running a player that only fails just makes for a longer video without adding anything entertaining in my opinion.
I also considered trying to match Ashton Eaton's event point values of the current real-world world record for Decathalon. While it may have been interesting from a 'matching real-world' perspective, I didn't feel it would add much entertainment value to a watcher over a run based on maximal scores.
I'm frankly not expecting many 'yes' votes on this run for entertainment purposes. I'm not even sure it's vaultable. But the only way to find out was to submit it.
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feos wrote:
1. Should I update the movie file?
2. Does bad ending equal not saving Ana? Or they are some sort of subsets of one another?
Answering those in reverse order...
They are the same thing (I'm terrible at naming branches).
As I mentioned in my earlier post, the branch probably isn't necessary at all given the only difference in the 'good' ending on NES is the text change at the end. It can be eliminated as far as I'm concerned.
