Posts for FatRatKnight

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Posted: 3/19/2011 8:15 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
This is likely how we'll destroy SEI-RYU. Minus my goofing around in the menus in a most unTASlike way. As for the MOSQUITOs, a group of 3 instantly dies to GAZE. Strangely, encountering 1 or 2, quite possible while still grabbing the Mana+5, lets them attack first, but a group of 3 lets our GAZE mutant strike first. Additionally, the spot I loaded the game from is the near-optimal tile, as it lets the guard step towards us without any delay as demonstrated. Any closer, and we must wait a frame or two; Any farther, and we'll need to take an extra step, eating 16 frames. Finally, the last hurdle, the Monster Trio, couldn't have ended better even if I want it to. The second fodder dies (if she doesn't use ESP) without a fuss, and the monsters die without any time-wasting actions other than killing our fodder for us. This is pretty much perfection, right here. And with that, after BYAK-KO, our two mutants suddenly don't matter. It's all down to a newcomer, and his stats are completely independent of everything we do up to getting him. So we don't need to think about World IV until we finally get there. So you ended up busier than expected. That's fine. If you get nothing else done this week, at least find some time to suggest the names we should use. Blank names all the way through (fastest)? Single letter names with carefully thought anagrams (Don't forget -- we're getting a fifth member eventually)? Full-blown names? We still have time to think about this. When we finally start, changing the names become rather inconvenient. I am impressed with Sara at Tower Reversed. Promptly creating the encounter list for FFL after someone was asking about it, definitely a nice thing. If even posts here are being watched, then I suppose my thanks here would be quite noticed. So, uh... Thanks! You certainly put an effort right into it. EDIT: I forgot to mention I've been getting a few PMs from Kuwaga. The discussion is mainly about the RNG, and we concluded that there's no easy way to create a lua script that predicts the RNG values when we reset. Well, short of running the emulator and going through the reset process and recording what comes out. Address FF04 is based on a hardware timer, which is where the RNG is getting its source of "random" numbers when we reset. Directly reading it probably isn't going to give us the precision we need to unravel the RNG, and good luck trying to count opcodes. We've got just about everything planned out. We already know what RNG values we want from resets, so there's little we can get from deconstructing the RNG further. Incidentally, take a look at address CB00. In fact, take a look at the next one at CB01, too. Actually, Tools -> Debug -> Memory Viewer -> Address CB00 and friends, all the way out to CBFF. I wouldn't have expected the entire RNG table being right there in memory, of all places.
Posted: 3/15/2011 4:14 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Well, that World I RNG plan, at least its outcome I've typed in there, works out just fine against SEI-RYU. Here's the overview of what we go for: Names: ... Either completely blank or one-letter names. We have a single vote towards having names to reduce confusion at expense of time. World I Order: ABCD is re-ordered to DBCA. The starter MUTANT F in A is to be our GAZE (death) mutant. We then proceed to manipulate the stuffing out of the RNG to get GAZE, TELEPOR, two sets of POWER, then just straight mana. P-FROG goes pop from GAZE. KINGSWRD will also be stared at to oblivion. The cronies will be manipulated to be a single foe and beaten down. And we skip GEN-BU by TELEPOR and finish up by talking to that one NPC and an inn stay. We swiftly climb the tower, reset-manipulating encounters away. World II We swiftly run through the caves, reset-manipulating encounters away. We grab the BATTLE sword in the northeast town. This sword, along with a starter HAMMER, will be what our two POWER mutants use versus SEI-RYU. Oh, and we reset-manipulate encounters away some more en route to SEI-RYU. Before we kill SEI-RYU, the party is to be reordered CDAB. C is the one with a pile of agility and safely absorbs the first hit; D is our sacrificial meat shield with 7 agility; A is the main mutant with 8 Agility, outspeeding the soon-dead D; And B is the MUTANT M who uses POWER along with A to smash SEI0RYU in. My tests show that giving A the BATTLE sword and leaving B with the HAMMER wins easily enough. Switching the two weapons so that B has BATTLE sword and A has HAMMER causes two more actions (The HAMMER strike doesn't kill, SEI-RYU misses) to take place. Whether the case may be, B needs to hold on to the BATTLE sword later on. After this death, the order is now CABD. If we use one-letter names, we'll need to have the right anagrams for greatest entertainment. I'm not a good wordy person, though. World III We GAZE things dead. Monster Trio is the main problem, however, and C would be the one fated to die here. I haven't double-checked things here, yet, but we should have a party ordered ABCD once we're finished with that battle. As A is faster than D, A goes first, insta-kills any further bosses due to exploited stone weakness, and on we go. Beyond that, more and more mana, STONE book, and turn BYAK-KO into instant art. World IV It's suddenly less clear once at the point where we recruit a fifth member into our team, replacing some dead guy. We have two paths -- Do we take the HUMAN M or MUTANT M into our party? Either way, the final rush beyond this world will be identical due to judicious use of SAW. It's just the path leading up to said final rush is a question that needs answering. Regardless, once the new party member is with us, the remaining live ones are fodder -- No more mana growth is planned to handle any further bosses, preferring SAW to take that place. Those are the basic plans I have so far put together. Again. I should be able to clear out World III just fine, in further tests I hope. Feels kind of like looking over old tomes of a lost civilization or something.
Posted: 3/14/2011 10:33 AM
Post subject: I beat the frame rule! I rule!
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Yep, there was indeed something I missed. The Tank #2 scene was suboptimal... By 5 frames! As such, I made it within that frame rule! Take note as the kills left to unlock scene, at address 03000328, begins at 5 instead of 6! That is due to a frame-perfect kill and a manipulated death animation (the fact a grenade pack pops out is simply a byproduct of said manipulation). And an enemy agent also spawns, proving I was under the agent limit at the right moment. Frame perfection at last! Well, I'm happy with this result. Anyone who says I can save a single frame at this point clearly wants to drive me insane. Current frame savings for 1-2: 115 frames off of T5's run, and 71 frames off of T1's run. I project around another 80 frames from this scene alone thanks to how I handled the frame rule so perfectly... If I can time the kills in this scene right.
Posted: 3/13/2011 10:59 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I'm still on it, but slow as ever. I'm still puzzling over how I can beat this frame rule... The .vbm in question. When I first reached the scene where I must slay the random agents to proceed, the spawn timer (Address 0300031A) read 12. So I decide to try to save a bunch of frames, hopefully at least 18, in order to beat the frame rule. So I did, but I ended up starting the spawn timer 6 frame earlier. After the movie ends, straight rolls into the next scene will have the camera lock with the spawn timer at 25. I need it to be 30. Right now I haven't a clue where I can save another 5 frames. Which leaves me thinking over how I can possibly make the spawn timer read 0 by the time I complete the first scene (where I destroy the first metal wall), even if it means sacrificing 10 or so frames before triggering the spawn timer. After all, if I beat the 31-frame rule, then that's 26 frames I'm not losing to it. If I mess around for 25 frames just to have the right timer value, I still win out by a frame. It's kind of frustrating, though. I'm losing 26 frames because I can't find where I can save another 5. I'm going to cool my thoughts for a bit and later try to mess with that timer again. Although I may have to accept the frame rule due to spawn timer.
Posted: 3/13/2011 6:58 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I believe this is the World I RNG plan. Judging from our local posts anyway. Now that I know you're back, I'm going to check over the plans. I haven't done so yet for whatever reasons. As for the fastest menu navigation, we don't actually have much written down. I know that accessing the Equip menu is a single tap left, not two taps right. Going up or down through vertical menus is fastest when we alternate two frames of left and two frames of right inputs while holding down. The select button can be used to "double-tap" the A button faster. There might be a few things I'm forgetting. Alright, enough messing around. I'm going to stare down SEI-RYU and figure out what was my favorite RNG.
Posted: 3/8/2011 10:18 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Well then, I should make efforts into trying to remember things like the SEI-RYU strat and who should or shouldn't die. I will make some effort in relearning everything here in preparation for your return.
Posted: 2/20/2011 7:50 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I'm curious as to the status of the commentary, both audio and subtitles. Around 11 days since last post, with the run apparently completed, so I'm simply posting: What's the current status? I would like to see the run submitted soon!
Posted: 2/16/2011 9:38 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I've looked at that boss battle for a bit. Nope, doesn't seem like I can save any more frames, at least, not with how I see things. So far, just studying the RNG after the battle. The run I posted has rolled the RNG 3229 times. I've made a new attempt which rolls the RNG as much as I could in the boss battle, and ended with 3401 rolls. Wonder how Team Totally Awesome Syzygy managed 3461 rolls. Huh. Anyway, the two nearest grenade drops (from an enemy without any RNG trickery) around these rolls happen to be 3217 rolls and 3516 rolls. Unfortunately, 3217 is too early a drop for me to get the grenades from the next agent I kill. Besides that, the run I posted here already went past that many rolls, so even if I look for ways to reduce the RNG rolls, I still likely won't be able to reach an agent before I fly past the target rolls. More bad news, 3516 is still over a hundred rolls away even with my best attempt to roll that RNG like crazy. Getting grenades as a drop from an agent doesn't look easy. The RNG trickery would involve a charged shot or a grenade. The time spent charging said shot is time spent not rolling but walking, and grenades take too long to hit the ground. I'll likely scrap the idea of getting a grenade drop from an agent and just get it from the building. But I do see a nice spread shot drop I can try to get instead! At 3315 rolls and 3366 rolls. Certainly well within reach, and building drops tend to be far easier to manipulate as they always drop their item. So, grenades from building, spread from enemy agent. I can tell this stuff because of a script I made during the DTC3. In case everyone already forgot such a script existed. It's difficult to explain how the RNG trickery works, though. I'll be trying the Totally Awesome Syzygy route through 1-2, meaning that I'll be punching through the shields rather than jumping over. Certainly gave the impression that it beat Team 5's attempt, but I'll be double-checking of course.
Posted: 2/16/2011 1:02 AM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Option 2, I say. But make Cradle revisited into a play-around where time isn't a primary goal. True, one can no longer use the strict definition of shortest input time to movie completion, but it would otherwise mean a perfectly redundant cradle. After all, everything up to the end of Egypt is TASed to precision, anything after that is just bonus material as far as I'm concerned. Have you tried just putting in the button codes in realtime? Just one last check to make absolutely certain it isn't working.
Posted: 2/14/2011 4:35 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Bobo the King wrote:
Edit: By the way, TASing Mario Golf had also crossed my mind as a fun, easy diversion. Great minds think alike, it seems. But did you also think of TASing Mario Tennis?
I actually did pick out Mario Tennis as well. Though, someone already picked out Power Tour. I also found out resets are my friend, as it allows me to skip the entire intro in Mario Tennis and the later portion of the intro in Mario Golf: Advance Tour. I also believe it's possible to attain enough distance in MG:AT to reach the greens of every hole, including every par 5. And then some. But let's not get too sidetracked, as this thread isn't about the various Mario sports. As you are currently busy, let me know when you can find some spare time. Try to let me know ahead of time, so I can take the time to set my mind into FFL. So, FFL will sit for a while longer. Our plans made for FFL isn't likely to disappear, so we should be fine when you get the time.
Posted: 2/13/2011 7:47 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
As I consider this a joint project with Bobo the King, I may find it difficult to get myself reorganized in an effort to complete this run if I go solo now. As far as I know, we already figured out everything there is, so no bursts of inspiration to save more frames had come up as of now. I do have something to TAS while waiting, so it's not like I'm completely trapped. It's just that this run is fairly dependent on the two team members coming together again.
Posted: 2/13/2011 7:39 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
To be blunt, I seem to have regained interest in TASing. Fortunately, it includes this project. And as my interest has returned, that includes many things about this site. I popped back here to let you know my status. I find it fairly easy to work on something you have a desire to do. I'm not sure how I managed to regain it, though. It happened. ETA of my return to this project is right now. I guess I can never really stay away from one place forever. This might be a new greeting! ... Now, why did I practically repost my last message, replacing a few choice words to report my change in status? http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1112729135/AH_FRK.vbm As for my latest attempt at destroying the end boss of 1-1, I'm 9 frames slow. As the frame rule only applies to spawns, I need to figure out how to save those 9 frames. Actually, I do manage to lock the boss screen 2 frames earlier -- 1 frame from better menu navigation in the beginning (alternating start and A where possible), and 1 frame for getting rid of a lag frame the DTC3 run did. So net loss of 7 frames. I still need to remove 9 frames somewhere to stay on par with the DTC3's boss-kill. EDIT: Look! I beat the DTC3 boss-kill by 8 frames! With the two other frames I saved earlier, I can start 1-2 with a 10-frame advantage! I'll be checking a few more things just in case I can squeeze out another frame, then come up with a different "finisher" that's does a bit more than my stupid boring jump. Perfect moment to manipulate luck, too, once I know what I want to get in 1-2.
Posted: 2/11/2011 5:22 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
My TASing mood died. Two months later, it looks as though it's being revived, as I caught myself putting some effort into TASing Mario Golf, both the ones for GBC and GBA. A casual attempt, anyway. So my interests in TASing once more is in the process of getting revived. I can't predict when I'll be back fully into it, but I am hopeful that we can finally finish this one.
Posted: 2/11/2011 5:18 PM
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FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Sorry about vanishing. My interests tend to waver a lot. Recently, I've been organizing all the Terence files and sorting out each floor. So, this is what I've got worked out for the first stratum. No TASing plans, but if I keep thinking about it, I might try a bit more myself. At least we can find the best level-up spots this way. Keep in mind, an RNG address I call R2 determines what we'll encounter, and that RNG isn't too hard to manipulate. There's a nice 210 exp encounter in floor 3, a significant jump over what's found in floors 1 or 2. Key, glossary, whatever 
Many thanks to Terence for having extracted all this nice data.
Kept me busy sorting through things, too.

The left map tells what encounter group you'll face.
The right map tells how much each step affects the danger counter.
Following the maps, a list of actual encounters with total exp values.
Finally, the stats of the monsters themselves.

I wanted to find some way of keeping the monster data within 79 characters.
I can't fit all of it, I trimmed off the item data and unmarked bytes.
Wasn't enough, it was still too wide to display in a neat 79 character width.
I figured collapsing the damage and status resistances would help.
And sure enough, it's no longer horribly wide. I hope it's easy to read.

But now that it's collapsed, other readers will need a key to read it. Here:

Damage    Status
SBP:FIV : DEHAL  Damage is one of Slash, Blunt, Pierce, Fire, Ice, Volt
 X   0    x   0  Status is Death, Ailment, Head- Arm- Leg-bind
 .  10    .   1
 2  50    '   3  I picked E for Ailment as I was thinking Status *E*ffect
 3  75    1   5
 *  90    2  10
 4 100    3  15
 % 110    4  20
 5 125    5  25
 6 150    h  50
 8 200    *  65
 O 250    Y 100
 ! 300    O 150
          ! 200
Floor 1 
___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.FFFFFFFFF_DDD_CCCC_III_.III______ _.333333333_555_3333_333_.333______
__________E_.DD_C__C_I_I____I______ __________3_.45_3__3_3_3____3______
_E.E______E_.DDCC__C_I_IIIIII______ _4.4______3_.4533__3_2_333333______
_EEE_DDD__E_.DD____C_I_____._______ _444_444__3_.45____3_2_____._______
_EEE.DDDEEE_DDD_CC_C_I_G__HHH______ _555.333333_555_55_3_2_3__555______
_EEE_DDD_________C_C_I_GG.HH.______ _555_333_________4_3_2_35.55.______
______A__________C_C_I_G__HHH______ ______4__________4_3_2_3__555______
_BBBBB.BBBBCCCCCCCCC_I_G___________ _33333.3322222233333_2_3___________
_B____A____________C.I_G__HHH______ _3____5____________2.2_3__555______
_B_AAAAAAABBBBBCCC_C_I_GG.HH.______ _3_333333322222233_2_2_35.55.______
_B_AAAAAAA_______C_C_I_G__HHH______ _3_3333333_______3_2_2_3__555______
_B_AAAAAAA_.EEEE_C_C_I_G___________ _3_3333333_.5544_3_2_2_3___________
_B_AAAAAAA_.EEEE_B_C_I_G__HHH______ _3_3333333_.5555_3_3_2_3__555______
______ ________._BCC_I_GG.HH.______ ______ ________._333_2_35.55.______
_EEE__ __DDD___C_B_C_I_G__HHH______ _666__ __555___3_3_3_3_3__555______
_EDE__ __DDDCC_C_B_C_I_G___________ _646__ __55533_3_3_2_3_3___________
_EEE_   .DDD_CCCCB_C___G____G______ _666_   .555_33333_2___3____5______
__D__   _______C_C_C.GGGGGGGG______ __3__   _______3_3_2.33333333______
__DD__ __D_____C_C_C_______________ __33__ __3_____3_3_3_______________
___D__.__DDDDCCC_C_C_______________ ___3__.__2222233_3_3_______________
_D_D_________D___C_C_______________ _3_3_________3___3_3_______________
_DDDDDDDDDDDDDD_EC_________________ _33333222223333_53_________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
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 A 40% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
   30% Mole                          15xp
___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
 B 30% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
   40% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
 C 25% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
   25% Mole                          15xp
___50%_Woodfly__Woodfly__Woodfly_____36xp
 D 30% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
   30% Mole     Mole     Mole        45xp
___40%_Clawbug_______________________34xp
 E 40% Mole                          15xp
   30% Clawbug                       34xp
___30%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp
 F 40% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
   20% Treerat  Clawbug  Treerat     46xp
___40%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp

 G 30% Venomgel Venomgel            462xp
   30% Sleepgel Sleepgel            432xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Venomgel____________447xp
 H 30% Sleepgel Venomgel            447xp
   30% Waspior  Sleepgel Waspior    744xp
___40%_Waspior__Waspior_____________528xp
 I 30% Spider   Sloth    Spider    1042xp
   30% Sleepgel Sloth    Sleepgel   852xp
___40%_Waspior__Sloth____Waspior____948xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
02B Woodfly      19  1| 11  14   9   9   7|444:448:YYYYY|   12   2 02
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A5 Ragelope    330  2| 45  26  27  27  18|333:448:15hhh|  297  12 52
Floor 2 
___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.AAAAAA_.BBBB_B_BCC_CCCCCCCCDDD_._ _.333333_.4444_4_111_23333222222_._
_____A_______BBB_B_C_C_D_______D_D_ _____2_______223_2_5_3_3_______3_2_
_AAA_A_AAA_BBB_B_B_C_C_D_.DDDD_D_D_ _333_2_333_442_3_2_8_1_3_.3333_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_A___B_BBB_CCC_D_____D_D_D_ _3_3_2_3_2___2_332_532_3_____3_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_ABB_B___B_D_C_DDDDDDD_D_D_ _3_3_2_3_333_2___3_1_2_3333333_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_E_B_B_C_B_D_C_________D_D_ _3_3_2_3_4_3_2_8_3_1_2_________3_2_
_B_AAAAA_E_BBB_BBB_D_CCCCCCDDD_D_D_ _3_33353_4_332_553_3_111333222_3_2_
_B_____A_E___________________DDDDD_ _3_____3_4___________________23532_
_BBBBBBB_EBBBDBBDEBBBBEBBB_DDD_D___ _3333333_32224333442223444_444_4___
______________________B__________._ ______________________2__________._
_._DDD_DDD_DEEED_C_CCECCCE_DDDDDDD_ _._444_322_44645_4_3333442_6666666_
_D_D_E_D_D_E___ECE_C_____C.D_______ _4_4_4_4_1_5___211_3_____5.6_______
_EEE_EEE_EEEEEEE_CCCECCC_C_DDDDDD._ _222_333_1143443_1224444_5_666666._
___________________________________ ___________________________________
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___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
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___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 30% Venomfly Venomfly             78xp
   30% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
___40%_Treerat__Hare_________________42xp
 B 40% Hare     Hare                 72xp
   20% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
___40%_Fender___Mole_________________80xp
 C 40% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
   20% Venomfly Venomfly Venomfly   117xp
___40%_Treerat__Hare_________________42xp
 D 50% Fender   Mole                 80xp
   25% Hare     Hare                 72xp
___25%_Venomfly_Woodfly__Venomfly____90xp
 E 30% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
   20% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly   143xp
___50%_Venomfly_Fender___Venomfly___143xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
02B Woodfly      19  1| 11  14   9   9   7|444:448:YYYYY|   12   2 02
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A5 Ragelope    330  2| 45  26  27  27  18|333:448:15hhh|  297  12 52
0A6 Kuyutha     350  2| 48  27  29  29  19|446:444:15hhh|  301  13 53
Floor 3 
___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.E_CCCCCC_BB_BBBBBBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8_444444_33_634511111_3333222222_
_.E.CCCCCE.BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8.444444.33_333_22222_3333222222_
_.E_CCCCCC_BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8_444444_33_333_22333_3333222222_
___________BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ ___________33_333_62333_3333222222_
_CCCCCCCCC.CC.BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _333333324.33.333_22333_3333222222_
_E______C__CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _4______2__33_333_22333_2222222222_
___CCCCCCC_CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ ___2333324_33_633_22333_2222222222_
_C_D_C_____CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _3_3_4_____33_333_22333_2222333333_
_D_D_CCCCC CC_BBB_BBBBB.AAAAAAAAAA_ _4_3_22224.33_333_22222.2222333333_
_DCD_______CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _433_______33_333_22222_2222333333_
___D_DCCCC_________________________ ___2_43333_________________________
_C_D_C___CCCDCCCDC_._G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _3_2_3___222433342_._3_444_444_444_
_C_D___E_________C_F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _3_2___7_________2_2_3.949.444.444_
_C_DCC_CCCDCCCCCDC_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _3_353_33343333342_2_3_494_444_444_
_C_D_C____C___C____F_G__.___.___.__ _3_3_3____3___2____2_3__.___.___.__
_DCD_C_CCCCCCCCCCC_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _253_3_33333333333_2_3_444_494_444_
_D_C_C___.___.___._F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _2_5_3___.___.___._2_3.444.949.444_
_D___C_DDD_DDE_DDE_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _2___3_338_334_334_2_3_444_494_444_
_DCCCC.DDD_DDD_DDD_F_G__.___.___.__ _23333.333_334_334_2_3__.___.___.__
_______DDD_DDD_DDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _______333_334_334_2_3_494_444_444_
_______.___.___.___F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _______.___.___.___2_3.949.444.444_
_DDDDDDDDDDDD_DDDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _333333333333_5555_2_3_494_444_444_
____.___.___.___D__F_G__.___.___.__ ____.___.___.___5__2_3__.___.___.__
_._EEE_EEE_EEE_DDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _._454_333_333_555_2_3_494_444_494_
_E_E.E_EEE_EEE_D.D_F_G HHH.HHH.HHH_ _2_4.4_333_333_5.5_2_3.949.444.944_
_E_EEE_EEE_EEE_____F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _2_444_333_333_____2_3_494_444_494_
_E______.________E_F_G__.___.___.__ _2______.________5_2_3__.___.___.__
_EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.FFGGGGGGGGGGGGG_ _23333322222333333.233333333333333_
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 30% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
   30% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
___40%_Mandrake_Mandrake___________________118xp
 B 20% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
   40% Hare     Hare     Roller   Roller   210xp
___40%_Venomfly_Mole_____Mole_____Venomfly_108xp
 C 30% Treerat  Roller   Mandrake Treerat  140xp
   30% Venomfly Mole     Mole     Venomfly 108xp
___40%_Venomfly_Roller___Venomfly__________147xp
 D 30% Mandrake Mandrake                   118xp
   40% Hare     Hare     Roller   Roller   210xp
___30%_Mandrake_Clawbug__Mandrake__________152xp
 E 50% Mandrake Clawbug  Mandrake          152xp
   25% Venomfly Roller   Venomfly          147xp
___25%_Treerat__Roller___Mandrake_Treerat__140xp

 F 30% Spider   Petaloid Spider            966xp
   30% Maneater Petaloid                   864xp
___40%_Petaloid_Petaloid___________________688xp
 G 30% Petaloid Firebird Petaloid         1108xp
   30% Scorpion Sleepgel                   716xp
___40%_Maneater_Fangleaf___________________850xp
 H 30% Firebird                            420xp
   30% Spider   Scorpion Spider           1122xp
___40%_Petaloid_Petaloid___________________688xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A6 Kuyutha     350  2| 48  27  29  29  19|446:444:15hhh|  301  13 53
054 Stalker     600  2| 72  38  36  36  24|242:544:.3555|  600  18 66

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
02F Spider       88  1| 56  41  26  26  26|444:646:YxYYY|  311  20 0F
038 Fangleaf    225  1| 78  42  22  25  19|444:644:hxYYY|  330  21 10
03A Petaloid    135  1| 64  44  28  28  28|444:644:hxYYY|  344  22 12
03D Firebird    135  1| 66  44  58  58  29|445:.52:YYYYY|  420  23 14
039 Maneater    230  1| 89  49  24  27  21|444:644:hxYYY|  520  24 15
031 Scorpion    122  1| 63  52  28  28  47|444:448:YxYYY|  500  25 16
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00E Armoth     1200  2|119  57  50  50  33|333:444:.3555| 2040  27 67
070 Golem      7000  3|200 120  30  30  30|222:555:21555|    0  30 79
Floor 4 
___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.DDD_DDDDD_DD_F_G_.EE_____________ _.222_33324_43_3_6_.55_____________
____D_D__D___D_F.G_EEE_____________ ____3_3__2___3_3.6_555_____________
_DD_D_DD_DDDDD_F___EEE_____________ _66_3_35_23332_3___555_____________
_.D.BBB______C_F.G___._____________ _.6.333______3_3.8___._____________
_DD_B_B_CCCC_C_F___._E_____________ _66_3_3_3111_4_3___._3_____________
____BBB_CCCC_C_F G_G_E_____________ ____333_3161_3_3.6_6_3_____________
_DD______._CCC_F_G.G_E_____________ _66______._222_2_6.6_3_____________
_DD_BBBBBB___._F.G___E_____________ _66_222224___._2.6___3_____________
_.__B____B_.___F_G.G_E_____________ _.__1____4_.___2_6.7_3_____________
_A_ABC_AAA_BBB_F.G_G_E_____________ _3_212_335_549_2.6_7_2_____________
_A_A_D_A_A_B_B_F___G_E_____________ _3_1_5_3_5_9_6_2___7_3_____________
_A_A___A_A_BBB_F.G_._E_____________ _3_1___3_5_522_3.8_._3_____________
_A_A_AAA_A___._F_____E_____________ _1_2_333_5___._3_____3_____________
_A_BAA___BB _B_F.GGG_E_____________ _1_111___11 _1_3.661_2_____________
_A___ BBB _B_B_F___G_E_____________ _1___ 111 _1_1_3___1_3_____________
_ B _A_____ A _F.GGG_E_____________ _ 1 _1_____ 1 _3.661_3_____________
_B_B_A_ C _B_B_F___G_E_____________ _1_1_1_ 1 _1_1_3___1_2_____________
_A_B_A_C_C_B_B_F.GGG_E_____________ _1_1_1_1_1_1_1_3.661_2_____________
_B_B_A_C_C_B_B_F_____E_____________ _1_1_1_1_1_1_1_2_____2_____________
_ B B B B B A _F.GG._E_____________ _ 1 1 1 1 1 1 _2.77._3_____________
_____A_________F_____E_____________ _____1_________2_____3_____________
_ .AA _ CCCCC _F.EEEEE_____________ _ .11 _ 11111 _2.33333_____________
_____A_A_____C_F___________________ _____1_1_____1_3___________________
_.AAA B BBA _C_F.G_FFF_____________ _.111 1 111 _1_3.8_261_____________
_____A_____A_A_F___F_F_____________ _____1_____1_1_3___2_1_____________
_ BBB BAA A _C_F.FFF_F_____________ _ 111 111 1 _1_3.662_1_____________
_A_______A___C_F_____F_____________ _1_______1___1_3_____1_____________
_ AAA. ._ CAC _F.FFFFF_____________ _ 111. ._ 111 _3.66661_____________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 50% Clawfly                               98xp
   30% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly           143xp
___20%_Hare_____Hare_____Hare_____Hare______144xp
 B 50% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly           143xp
   30% Mandrake Roller   Roller   Mandrake  256xp
___20%_Hare_____Hare_____Hare_____Hare______144xp
 C 40% Roller   Clawbug  Clawbug  Roller    206xp
   40% Mandrake Roller   Roller   Mandrake  256xp
___20%_Mole_____Clawfly__Mole_______________128xp
 D 40% Clawbug  Clawfly  Clawbug            166xp
   20% Hare     Hare     Hare     Hare      144xp
___40%_Mole_____Clawfly__Mole_______________128xp

 E 30% Waspior  Waspior  Waspior            792xp
   30% Venomgel Sleepgel Venomgel           678xp
___40%_Maneater_____________________________520xp
 F 30% Fangleaf                             330xp
   30% Maneater                             520xp
___40%_Maneater_____________________________520xp
 G 30% Sloth    Maneater                    940xp
   30% Fangleaf Maneater                    850xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Sloth____Venomgel___________867xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
023 Clawfly      65  1| 45  29  16  18  14|222:X!!:YYYYY|   98  14 0A
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
001 Wolf        260  2| 51  29  30  30  20|444:624:25444|  525  14 54

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
038 Fangleaf    225  1| 78  42  22  25  19|444:644:hxYYY|  330  21 10
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11
039 Maneater    230  1| 89  49  24  27  21|444:644:hxYYY|  520  24 15
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
014 Cutter      790  2|119  57  50  50  33|444:444:25555|  973  27 57
Floor 5 
___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.AAAAAAAAAAAA_FFF_.IIIIII_HHH.GGG_ _.333333332333_777_.333333_353.555_
__________A_____A________IIH_H_GGG_ __________2_____4________353_3_555_
_AAAAACAAAAACBAAACA___IIII_H_H_GGG_ _433333333333324233___8333_3_3_558_
___ ____B____B____AA___I_I_H_H___._ ___.____3____3____33___3_3_3_3___._
_BBB_BBBBB_BBBBCB__B___I_I_H_HHH_G_ _222_22224_233434__3___3_3_3_353_3_
_B___C_____B___B__BBB_IIIIIH_H_H_G_ _3___3_____3___3__243_333323_3_3_3_
_C_BBCCCCCCCBB_BBBB_C_I___I__HHH_G_ _4_44222333232_3242_5_3___5__353_3_
_B_C_______C_C_C__C_B IIIIIHHHH__._ _3_2_______3_2_3__2_2.333335535__._
_B_C_CCCCCCC_C_CC_F_B___________.E_ _3_2_2222333_2_32_3_2___________.6_
_B_C_C___C___F__C_C_CCCCCCCCCC._EE_ _3_2_3___6___4__2_3_4432222227._66_
_B_C_C_C_CCFCCC_C_F_____________EE_ _3_2_3_4_334333_2_3_____________68_
_B_C_C_C_F_CC_CCCCC_FF_EFE_EEEE__._ _2_2_3_4_2_33_33333_42_535_2333__._
_B_C_CCC_C_C_________F_EFF.E__EE_E_ _2_2_332_4_3_________2_346.3__23_3_
_B_C_C_C_C_C_ __.__ _E_EFE_EE__E_E_ _2_2_3_3_4_3_ __.__ _3_543_34__3_2_
_B_C_C_CCC_C_       _E_____CEC_E_E_ _2_2_3_333_3_       _3_____344_3_2_
_B_C_C__E__C_ __ __ _F_FEF_C_E_E_E_ _2_2_3__2__3_ __ __ _2_253_3_2_2_2_
_B_F_CF_E_FC_ _   _ _F_EEE.C_E_C_E_ _2_3_37_2_63_ _   _ _2_555.3_2_2_2_
_B_C____E_______ ____C_FEF_E_E_C_E_ _3_2____2_______ ____2_253_3_2_2_3_
_B_CDDD_E_DD____ ____C_____ _E_C_E_ _3_2222_2_53____ ____2_____._2_2_2_
_C____D_E__D_ __ __ _F_FFFFE_E_E_E_ _4____3_2__2_ __ __ _4_33333_2_2_2_
_B_.._D_EDDD_ __ __ _E_FFFF__E_E_E_ _3_.._3_2332_ __ __ _5_3333__2_2_2_
_B_FF_D_E__D_       _F_FFFF_FE_E_E_ _3_99_3_3__3_       _2_3333_52_3_2_
_._.__F_EE_D____.____F_FFFF____E_E_ _._.__2_33_3____.____2_3333____3_3_
_CCCC_D_CEEDDDD_FFFFFF.FFFF._EEE_E_ _4333_3_5334444_332233.3333._333_3_
_C__C_D___E___D______________E___._ _4__3_3___3___4______________3___._
_CCCC_DDD_EEEEEEEEECCCCEEEEEEE_DDD_ _4333_333_22233322222222333332_333_
_C_C___________________________D_D_ _4_6___________________________3_3_
_CCCC.DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD,DDD_ _4336.332222222333333222222333.353_
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 50% Warbull                             120xp
   30% Fender   Fender                     130xp
___20%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 B 30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
   10% Roller   Clawfly  Roller   Roller   305xp
___60%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 C 30% Fender   Fender                     130xp
   50% Warbull                             120xp
___20%_Mandrake_Warbull__Mandrake__________238xp
 D 40% Warbull                             120xp
   20% Warbull  Warbull                    240xp
___40%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 E 50% Fender   Fender                     130xp
   30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
___20%_Roller___Clawfly__Roller___Roller___305xp
 F 20% Warbull  Warbull                    240xp
   30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
___50%_Roller___Clawfly__Roller___Roller___305xp

 G 30% Venomgel Venomgel                   462xp
   30% Sleepgel Sleepgel                   432xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Venomgel___________________447xp
 H 30% Sleepgel Venomgel                   447xp
   30% Waspior  Sleepgel Waspior           744xp
___40%_Waspior__Waspior____________________528xp
 I 30% Spider   Sloth    Spider           1042xp
   30% Sleepgel Sloth    Sleepgel          852xp
___40%_Waspior__Sloth____Waspior___________948xp


### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
023 Clawfly      65  1| 45  29  16  18  14|222:X!!:YYYYY|   98  14 0A
012 Warbull     140  1| 52  33  18  20  16|444:666:!!YYY|  120  16 0B
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
001 Wolf        260  2| 51  29  30  30  20|444:624:25444|  525  14 54
082 Skoll       400  2| 54  30  32  32  21|444:624:25444|  612  15 6F
097 Fenrir     1200  3| 96  46  48  24  48|444:6X4:x1YYY| 2500  18 70

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
02F Spider       88  1| 56  41  26  26  26|444:646:YxYYY|  311  20 0F
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11
Posted: 1/9/2011 8:04 AM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
To be blunt, I seem to have lost all interest in TASing. Unfortunately, it included this project. And as it is all interest, that includes just about everything else related to this site. I only popped back here to let you know my status. I find it is nearly impossible to work on something you have no desire to do. I'm not sure how I managed to lose it, though. It happened. ETA of my return to this project is indefinite. I guess I can never really stay in one place forever. This might be farewell... As for your attempt at destroying that boss, you've got 5 lag frames. In addition, you didn't save enough frames to beat the 31-frame spawn timer, so those 5 lag frames actually slow you down. It is slower than the DTC run thanks to that now-lagged frame rule. Here's where I dropped my run.
Posted: 12/16/2010 2:39 PM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Here's why I spoke about my anger in the IRC channel a while ago: Someone asked why, the reason amounted to nothing more than a whim, there are numerous posts speaking against this change, evidenced in this very thread, and apparently they're not good enough against said whim. Anyone here mind splitting these posts into a new thread? "Front page movie description decision", perhaps? Technically not a bug, but there are complaints, and I really do hate seeing them ignored or taken lightly for a vacuous reason.
Posted: 12/6/2010 4:47 PM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I'm more interested in whether MUTANT M or HUMAN M is the way to go. By the end, it won't matter, but the process of reaching ideal SAW Strength is different. ... I should review the basics between the two. HUMAN M deals with his STRONG addiction before leaving town, where the MUTANT M would probably need an extra battle to get optimal Strength, or deal with SU-ZAKU somewhat slower. I'm pretty sure walking the way is better than fishing for the bike in town and getting to the skyscraper with it. Never hurts to double-check, though. Don't forget there are some no-encounter steps that only the bike can make use of. I'm almost certain of the World I plan now. Switching the starter MUTANT F so she can get GAZE is the best plan, as we can use my favorite RNG against SEI-RYU that way without any excess switching. Just a matter of looking at Worlds II & III battles and making sure things go smoothly before we commit ourselves to this group.
Posted: 12/5/2010 12:44 PM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Test 2: Party of F M F F, with swap of first and last F. (EDIT: Added RNG analysis; EDIT2: Added RNG constraints) Summary: One swap was made, at the very start. One reset specifically for dodging a random encounter was made. Ending GP was 1023, a generous 34 above what we need for the BATTLE sword. As usual, I cheated some particular values to speed up my run. But of note, the KINGSWRD battle is easier to manipulate due to the fact I no longer must force him to pick a durable target -- The GAZE is fired first. Still, there are 2 tough rolls to make, regardless. 
HP St Df Ag Mn     Ending party
20  6  5  7  5  ....... ....... ARMOR   ....... Fodder MUTANT F. Die at SEI-RYU
33 12  3  3  6  TELEPOR POWER   ....... ....... Spare POWER MUTANT M
45  4  3 15  7  ESP     BARRIER ARMOR   ....... Fodder MUTANT F for Monster Trio
40  4  0  8 27  STEALTH POWER   GAZE    STEALTH Main GAZE MUTANT F

Swap A with D: Order is DBCA
reset ( 79.37 ~  80.24) [52]  C343:58  C36F:5F
GOBLIN   | 4A:SABER(18) 1D:RAPIER(4)
ALBATROS | 3C:RAPIER(7) To1D:BEAK(19) 4A:SABER(20)
reset (233.29 ~ 233.36) [ 8]  C30B:E8  C343:F2
GOBLIN   | 4A:GAZE
GOBLIN   | 4A:GAZE
ALBATROS | 4A:SABER(21)
P-FROG   | 3C:RAPIER(-) 1D:ARMOR 4A:GAZE
reset (145.37 ~ 146.28) [56]  C30B:93  C343:9B
ALBATROS | 1A:SABER(21)
reset (146.37 ~ 147.28) [56]  C30B:94  C343:9C
LIZARD   | 4A:GAZE
reset (171.29 ~ 172.28) [64]  C30B:AD
KINGSWRD | 4A:GAZE
reset (for those few extra steps) [Lots!]
reset ( 15.21 ~  15.28) [ 8]  C30B:10  C353:1B
SKELETON | 4A:SABER(11) 1D:RAPIER(4) 3C:RAPIER(7)
reset (171.29 ~ 172.28) [64]  C30B:AD
STEWARD  | 4A:SABER(23)
Posted: 12/4/2010 10:40 PM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1174)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Names: Star - MUTANT F destined to die at Monster Trio. The starter Fodd - Mutant destined to die at SEI-RYU, Pow - Spare mutant who supplements the fights of SEI-RYU and Monster Trio with POWER. Gaz - Main MUTANT F who wields the power of GAZE and will hold the STONE book. SEI-RYU bites party member 1, followed by zapping party member 2, using my favorite RNG that leaves us with plenty of steps (159.29 ~ 160.28) and a Mana+5 given to the second mutant. In order to survive the bite in round 1, ESP or ARMOR must be used. In the case of ESP, turn order does not matter. If it's ARMOR, it must be used before SEI-RYU attacks. A member in slot 1 will only go first if the slot 4 member is slower. The follow-up THUNDER is unavoidable; Member 2 will surely die. I need spare fodder for Monster Trio later, so I can only accept one death. With one death, Gaz must be in slot 3 in order to catch the Mana+5. In order for Gaz to be fast enough later on, Fodd must die here, so into slot 2. Pow can't take the hit and still beat SEI-RYU dead by round 3, so basically, slot 4. Star must sit in slot 1. Here's the problem I crash into: The Pow, in slot 4, has 15 Agility. Star has 8. I could put Fodd in front, but when Star dies, she's placed in slot 4, with 8 Agility versus the all-important Gaz's 7 Agility. Bad, there's no going first later. I checked the RNGs that put Mana+5 on track for the third mutant. I either get a bad step count for the random encounter or SEI-RYU targets slot 3 or 4 with the bite. The bad step count means another reset, but at least its workable. I'm wondering if I should eat another swap in World I and give an Agility+4 that the spare POWER mutant would have gotten. The Agility values would then be 12 and 11, allowing the starter MUTANT F to go first against SEI-RYU and get that ARMOR up in time. Or would it be better to leave the Agility alone and go for the bad step count win and take an extra reset?
Bobo the King wrote:
Any projected or confirmed advantages to this party over the current standard one (F M F F or GAZE, POWER, fodder, fodder)? Just keep me updated.
Lets see... World I would have some differences. For one thing, your fastest mutant is in another spot. Since your GAZE mutant is now the fastest one, the KINGSWRD battle will finish without him ever attacking. For another, we have an extra swap right from the start. But a new RNG route may be fairly unpredictable, it's hard to say. The later worlds would act pretty much the same, though. Only thing that might have a chance of being different would be SEI-RYU, but I don't believe we want it to change much. I may want to look at that F M F F group for World I for a bit.
Posted: 12/4/2010 3:25 PM
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FatRatKnight
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Not to sound harsh, but one of the key components of auto-scrolling segments is to spend the time entertainingly. It's typically difficult to always know what is entertaining and what isn't, but do compare my abandoned run with yours and tell me which one catches more of your attention. It's great that you go for fastest possible (auto-scrolling, eh...), but that alone isn't enough in auto-scroller segments. Kill every enemy possible might help, maybe. But there are times you just stand there. There is a time you kill an enemy without giving it a chance to show off its flashy moves, and in the moments that follow, you actually have nothing to do. And the music is entirely ignored. There is something written here in an effort to raise awareness of what to do when the only thing you can do is wait. Look under Create art even when waiting. At least ask yourself this: Even when there is nothing of note happening, do you get that sense watching the runs? Again, it's difficult to really get a perfect sense of what is and what isn't entertaining. But now that I said this, would you be willing to try that opening Corridor again with these thoughts in mind? I don't expect your habits to change overnight, but try listening to the music and see if you can act in time with it. Better if you can kill some enemies distinctly to the music, too. Without interfering with getting to the end, of course. If leaving an enemy alive (longer) will have more action going on in the screen, keep it alive long enough to see that action. There are certainly people hoping to see the run produced eventually. Keep trying and see if you can train in a new sense for entertainment! I can't say it's easy, but if done successfully, its beauty is rarely matched.
Posted: 12/3/2010 2:35 PM
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FatRatKnight
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Bobo the King wrote:
I noticed your interest seemed to be waning. How about we take a break? [...]
We stop now, and I'll never recover. It will simply become a project that only exists in my past and I will never regain what little interest I have now. An untended confined flame will simply burn itself out, and no amount of extra kindling will restore this flame once gone. My "burning passion" may be just a flicker, but leave it alone with nothing more to fuel it, and it will simply die out. ... Why am I using a metaphor now? So, no extended breaks. Won't help us complete this run. Might even be harmful. I want to look at more World 1 stuff, at the least, before I drop this run for a while. I've made a recent edit to my last post with some analysis on a particular RNG path we could take. I will check this party and make sure it can defeat SEI-RYU handily and with pinpoint killing of the fodder. Not strongly for the idea of botting battles. I've actually noticed, on occasion, the game has a sort of an "anti-lag" in that I'm able to access some menu item a frame earlier than expected. There aren't a lot of battles that we actually fight at this point, with the bulk of it going towards World 1, and I don't feel it would take too much time to handle manually.
Posted: 12/3/2010 8:22 AM
(Edited: 12/6/2010 3:04 PM)
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FatRatKnight
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I should know what a monster script is -- I'm currently holding on to at least one that is over 1000 lines in length, written by myself, though this counts the comment lines and blank lines. Yours is a mere 345 lines. I will spend some time optimizing the functions. At least make things a bit more compact while I'm reading through and trying to get a better idea.
What do you mean by "other actions"? Like various keypresses in the meantime? I don't think that would affect anything while we're in the menu. Please clarify if I'm not getting it.
Do edits 3 & 4 in this post seem familiar? Admittedly, I do not know where the tests have taken place in, but fact is, it's possible to tweak the RNG according to your own tests. ... It is harder than I thought it would be to keep myself interested in staying with the run. The tests I should try might be simple enough, but I keep getting myself on other things. Since we were talking about botting, I ended up trying to produce one that plays Yoshi's Cookie, versus mode, and actually have some decent progress on it -- It can move the cursor to any coordinate it wants in frame perfection. ... Which is not about this game. Poor attention span, perhaps. EDIT: Test 1, party of F F M F. (Edit2: checked difficulty of RNG; EDIT3: Added RNG constraints) Summary: One party swap was made. One reset specifically for dodging an enemy encounter is made. Ending GP was 1004, should be enough for the BATTLE sword with a spare margin of 15. I picked out some exact RNG values and cheated for them, with the worst possible luck requiring us to hit one of only four values at the reset prior to cronies battle. There are a total of three apparently difficult rolls to make. My notes: 
HP St Df Ag Mn     Ending party
40  7  5  8  6  STEALTH ....... ARMOR   ....... Starter MUTANT F
45  8  3  3  7  ESP     BARRIER ....... ....... Fodder MUTANT M, will die at SEI-RYU
33  8  3 15  6  TELEPOR POWER   ARMOR   ....... Spare POWER MUTANT F
20  3  0  7 26  ....... POWER   GAZE    STEALTH Main GAZE MUTANT F

reset (_79.37 ~ _80.24) [52]  C343:58  C36F:5F
GOBLIN   | 1A:SABER(18) 4D:RAPIER(4)
ALBATROS | 1A:SABER(20)
reset (233.29 ~ 233.36) [_8]  C30B:E8  C343:F2
GOBLIN   | 1A:SABER(18) 4D:GAZE (meat)
GOBLIN   | 2B:RAPIER(4) 1A:SABER(17)
ALBATROS | (First strike) 4D:GAZE (meat)
P-FROG   | 4D:GAZE (meat)
reset (145.37 ~ 146.28) [56]  C30B:93  C343:9B
ALBATROS | 1A:SABER(21)  (meat)
reset (146.37 ~ 147.28) [56]  C30B:94  C343:9C
LIZARD   | 1A:ARMOR 4D:GAZE
reset (172.22 ~ 172.28) [_7]  C30B:AD  C35A:B9
Swap B with C: New party of ACBD  (Reason: Agility+4 to third slot)
KINGSWRD | 1A:SABER(12) to1A:sKING(38) 4D:GAZE
reset (Few lousy extra steps. Blegh) [Lots!]
reset (_15.21 ~ _15.24) [_4]  C353:1B  C36F:1E
SKELETON | 1A:SABER(11) 4D:RAPIER(4) 3B:RAPIER(7) (meat)
reset (171.29 ~ 172.28) [64]  C30B:AD
STEWARD  | 1A:SABER(23)
Posted: 12/1/2010 12:15 PM
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FatRatKnight
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Alright. I'm getting myself confused over things. For now, I'll back away and clear my thoughts. Thing is, I got myself entangled on what each function should do and when they should be called. It's very easy to complicate things, so now I want to back away and go down another path that I can more easily see. As for user interface, one of my favorite functions for handling the user buttons would be like so: 
Language: lua
local keys, lastkeys= input.get(), input.get() --So we have some default state
--*****************************************************************************
local function UpdateKeys()  lastkeys= keys; keys= input.get()  end
local function Press(k)      return keys[k] and not lastkeys[k] end
--*****************************************************************************

while true do
    UpdateKeys()
    if Press("numpad1") then SomeFunction() end
    if Press("numpad2") then SomeOtherFunction() end
--  ... And so forth
    emu.frameadvance()
end
It's too bad that VBA has no form of "run-while-paused" code, or else we could simply just tap the key without need of frame advance or leaving the emulation unpaused. And if you're frame advancing, the Press function loses some of its value of only returning true once for a held key. Kind of a problem, isn't it? For now, though, resets. What is involved in a reset, anyway? - Saving the game, of course. Resets are pointless if we lose our progress. - Resetting, naturally. - - How we reset may differ, in order to get a different set of RNGs. - Checking to see whether we have the right values. Saving the game. That can generally be assigned as a sort of a macro. Not much to do other than a fairly predictable sequence of key presses. Resetting. We can trigger a reset fairly easily, as a reset macro would simply consist of four buttons being held for two frames. But the timing of a reset might need to change, or some conditions leading up to the reset might also be desirable to change. Part of the reason why we want a bot to handle this, right? We could go with a straight "delay x frames", or we could have the bot do other actions. Although, a straight "delay x frames" isn't the fastest possible course some of the time, but how we might be able to deal with adding other actions? Checking conditions. Naturally, after our first reset, we want to actually scan the RNG to make sure it's what we want. Typically, we only need two addresses if it's confined to some range, but maybe we want something a little more at times. Finally, there's a little bit of overhead we may want to tie these together. A master function that figures out what to do. The reset function should have only one task, and that's to reset the game in some fashion. The checking function shouldn't even know that a reset took place, all it should do is look at memory and report whether it matches. The overhead function tracks these things for us and makes the decision whether to call these other functions or go through another loop. But I'm kind of moving off in one direction (I... Kind of froze up looking at the botting). Generally, we should check ourselves if some RNG path can work. Will this party of F M F F be able to fight this battle given this RNG? If so, leave it up to the bot to find out how to get that RNG for us. We have a perfectly good cheat script that can modify the RNG for some checking ourselves without first going through the process of getting said RNG. Do we need to automate such actions of walking from one place to another? What about battles, even though we should already know the outcomes? There isn't a lot that botting could do that we can't do manually with little trouble, other than RNG manipulation, unless you believe there is something I'm missing. Incidentally, I just checked F F M F party. I cheated the RNGs up the way I desire them in my F F M F party. The second F dies to an ALBATROS in the Bandit Cave without any shuffling, so out with that plan. I can switch a pair of Fs so the GAZE mutant picks up TELEPOR instead of the spare POWER mutant, but this means a Mana+1 instead of a Mana+2, allowing no more than zero error for further Mana+5 gains. F M F F party seems to stand up just fine, with the middle two taking a beating but still breathing. I haven't checked the desirable RNG path for when we switch the starter F with the fourth F. I'll be sure to let you know what I find in manually checking things. I'll write down my observations of each run and let you know how things go. Most of it will be real time, until NPCs involve themselves, so I spend as little time as possible reworking the route.
Posted: 12/1/2010 7:01 AM
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FatRatKnight
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Okay, I'm not beating this boss any faster than what we did in the DTC3. Too bad, as I've successfully got the charged shot to 10 damage instead of 9 against the van. Severe lag takes place in the battle that follows, even though I managed to pick up the ice gun and start hitting harder. Technically, I am able to save a few frames off what I did in the previous run, but I'll promptly lose more than the savings due to the now lagged spawn timer. So, I think I'll just try to match the winning run. Not much else I can do at this point, really.
Posted: 11/30/2010 1:47 PM
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FatRatKnight
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Sorry, I don't follow this point. Is this because our starter Mutant F picks up a Mana +4 boost at some point (without shuffling) and we therefore don't have to manipulate +5 boosts consistently to reach 46 Mana before BYAK-KO?
The Mana growths are as follows: Starting Mana: 6 or 5 +5 from GAZE manipulation +2 from TELEPOR manipulation, no swaps +5 from KINGSWRD +5 from cronies +5 from STEWARD +5 from SEI-RYU +5 from MOSQUITO +5 from Monster Trio +5 from SABERCAT 48 or 47 Mana. Target: 46 The starting Mana of 6 would be the starter mutant's, while the starting Mana of 5 would be from some other mutant. Now, since we will ultimately have 2 or 1 more Mana than we actually need, we can replace one of these +5s in the list with a +4. In the case where we have 2 extra Mana, we can replace two of these +5s each with a +4, or replace one +5 with a +3. We still can't get rid of any Mana bonuses. We can only replace a full +5 with a lesser bonus. There's probably plenty of +4s out there that, in turn, lets us choose different RNG values for other things, like number of enemies to fight. This is what I mean. As for lua scripting... I'm good with informational HUD scripts and have some capability with cheat scripts, but botting isn't my strong point. I'll be taking a look. You want to tie it all into a single script, I take it? Not sure what I can do, but no one gets anywhere without trying first, right?
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