Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
primorial#soup wrote:
- Jumping off a ledge is two frames slower than taking the stairs. You do this three times when it was avoidable if I counted correctly :P
Could you tell me where they are in the run? I only remember one of them. It was after I got the Charmander. I initially got the Thunder Wave TM, then changed it, and forgot about going down. That was a mistake.
Edit 3: Another one is near the beginning of the run. But I can't find the third one.
primorial#soup wrote:
- Bubblebeam. Is this a better choice than Thunderbolt? I'm not convinced. You would end up with 'not very effective' messages against the few rock pokémon by having to use Poison Sting (or Thrash), but that's pretty much equal to the super effective messages. Also, Thunderbolt has the fast animation, as opposed to the slow animation of Surf, and could be used at the end in place of it, saving 55 frames each time. Also, it would save you half of the menu time you lost switching your Bike around. I think it could possibly save quite a bit.
I felt the need to teach Bubblebeam right away because of Poison Pokemon. I considered teaching Thunderbolt but decided against it, because I thought at the moment it would take too much time to learn. Now that I think of it, it could be used in place of Surf and Strength moves, and could save having to use Max Ether for Bubblebeam.
primorial#soup wrote:
- Depositing Pikachu. When I first saw you do it, I said to myself, "The logic behind it will probably become clear later," but it didn't. Pikachu does slow down certain actions, such as healing, but you don't heal after than one instance ever again. This must have wasted several hundred frames. Was this a stylistic choice not to have Pikachu following you around everywhere? If so, I don't think it was worth it.
Pikachu causes extra scenes that slow down the game. At Bill's house, there are 3 of these scenes. At the Pokemon Fan Club, there is 1. Haven't timed, but each scene is at least 5 seconds long.
By the way, some of the questions are answered in the submission text.
Not the Pikachu depositing, because I forgot to mention it. But some others. Actually, I did mention the Pikachu depositing.
Edit:primorial#soup wrote:
This 'bug' does seem to be absent from Yellow. You can also not use Escape Rope from Bill's. Could it possibly be faster to catch an Abra, as Tilus did in his original run, and thereby save the walking time from both of these? If I recall correctly, catching a wild pokémon requires around 1500 frames, if you don't rename it.
One thing different from Pokemon Yellow is that Abra cannot be caught until after beating the Rocket with the Dig TM. So I can't use it after Bill's House.
I could test fainting from poison, but that would go against the spirit of a no-damage run, and would look bad.
Edit 2:primorial#soup wrote:
After testing, Escape Rope can be used from directly in front of Sabrina. Time lost was about ~150 frames.
I timed it again to make sure I wasn't delusional, and I saved ~30 frames.
When using Escape Rope on a teleport square, you exit the screen faster, as if you were doing a teleport instead.
Are there any big changes for this, as compared to Pokémon red? I hope not, because then 90 minutes might be doable for a Red TAS.
There are some big changes, and I don't think Red/Blue can improve on this. Also, I underestimated the time, because the final time is 1:35:11 (in-game 1:33).
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
I just beat Rival after getting 8 badges, at around 1:22. Now to go through Victory Road, and beat Elite 4 and Rival.
As much as I would like it, this run is not going sub-1:30. It's simply not possible. I hope to beat 1:32 though.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
Chamale wrote:
Ooh... Post 666 for FractalFusion... dudududu... Anyway, does that inventory jamming thing work as effectively in Pokémon Red? Seems to me it does, but I've never played Pokémon Yellow.
It should, since you pick up the same items as in this run (or close to it).
Other possible items to pick up are the Awakening (Poketower), Take Down TM (Silph Co.), and Double Team (Safari Zone).
I'm not going to change it now, but I could have benefited by not taking the Potion in Viridian Forest and taking something else later, since I scroll through less items that way. But then it would lead to questions like "Should I overspend on Pokeballs or Escape Ropes?" because of the same conclusion. Keep in mind that I do not want Escape Ropes on the top, because I switch the Bicycle with the top item.
Run is currently in Poketower.
Thanks for alerting me to my post count. This post takes me past two thirds of a thousand. :)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
Well of course, if I teach Thunderbolt.
But I want to try to do it without teaching Thunderbolt. The issue is whether I can critical Thrash Blue's Cloyster in the final battle. With an attack DV of B, I was unable to do it.
Pokemon Yellow is a GBC game, if anyone is wondering why I chose GBC mode.
Edit:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_Boy_Color_games#PEdit 2: I meant attack DV of B, not attack of B. :D
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
Here goes Pokemon Yellow:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4453/0215%20-%20Pok%C3%A9mon%20Yellow%20%28U%29%28RSAT%29.vbm
Run goes up to Brock beaten (which is only the beginning of Nidoking's rampage).
Pikachu's DVs: 32CC
Nidoking's DVs: FBEF
You might notice that I am picking up superfluous items. The reason is that I want to jam the inventory to prevent gym leaders from giving me useless TMs and saying how good they are.
List of items I plan to pick up (* means required items):
1) potion (viridian forest)
2) pokeball (buy in pewter)
3) bide tm*
4) fossil*
5) nugget*
6) ssticket*
7) dig tm*
8) cut hm*
9) tbolt tm*
10) bike*
11) max ether (after rock tunnel, hidden)
12) pokedoll (buy in celadon)
13) fly hm*
14) elixir (poketower)
15) rare candy* (poketower)
16) pokeflute*
17) escape rope (buy in lavender)
18) cardkey*
19) surf hm*
20) goldteeth/strength hm*
Bubblebeam TM is not on the list because I will use it right away.
I need to use an item later (probably elixir) to get the Secret Key in the Cinnabar Mansion.
Rridgway wrote:
I heard that if you use a rare candy on the pokemon, it goes to level 100. (Could be rumor)
As far as I know, if you use a Rare Candy on a L1 Pokemon, it goes to L2 no matter what its experience is, and its experience is set accordingly. So it doesn't work.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
Sorry, I wasn't thinking today.
I guess then it's really not worth it to faint. Just beat the trainer with Oddish and Bellsprout and forget about Nidoking.
Or play Pokemon Yellow and do the trainer-fly glitch in Viridian Forest.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
When I first saw "#1479: Vatchern's SNES NHL '94 in 02:29.73", it made me laugh.
The movie didn't though, even if it was interesting. It seems too short, and sports games are hard to entertain.
Voting no.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
primorial#soup wrote:
You're forgetting one crucial detail of the glitch... and that is that you need to fight a trainer after Escape Roping away (otherwise a pokémon won't spawn when you return). However, it doesn't matter if you actually defeat this trainer or not, which is why I suggest just dying to the nearest trainer to save time.
It is not necessary to fight a trainer if you trigger some NPC event. However, as far as I know, there isn't any near Mt. Moon except possibly the Super Nerd guarding the fossils.
My opinion is that Gengar is better than Nidoking.
Of course, Nidoking is the only option in Yellow, because Ivysaur's moveset is very bad.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
moozooh, are you sure it's not Windows XP causing the darkness? From experience, the screen under WinXP is naturally darker than in Win98, even at the monitor's highest brightness and contrast settings.
In WinXP, you can increase the brightness by right-clicking on the desktop and selecting Graphic Options -> Graphic Properties... -> Color, and increase Gamma/Brightness/Contrast. I had to do this a few times because underwater levels are so hard to TAS when dark.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
CrimsonPride wrote:
I believe in yellow, you level more slowly(takes more exp to level).
It depends on the Pokemon. There are 4 types of level-experience relationships: Fast, Fading, Medium, and Slow.
The fastest in the early game is Fading, which Mew and all 3-stage evolution Pokemon except the bugs get. The R/B starters all belong in this category.
One difference I noticed in Yellow that is not in R/B is that you cannot Escape Rope from Bill's house or the Pokemon Fan Club. Not sure about Safari Zone.
Edit: It is possible to Escape Rope in Safari Zone.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
Just a warning for anyone who considers using Nidoking (or Thrash, for that matter).
Thrash has an added effect that wastes about 1 second when you first use it. Short delay attacks (e.g. Poison Sting, Bubblebeam, etc.) are better for up to 3 Pokemon in a row, barring SE/NVE messages. I noticed it while testing Pokemon Yellow.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
If you don't trigger a NPC event (trainer battle in Brock's Gym or this), it won't work and everything in Viridian Forest is deactivated (even the trainers in Viridian Forest will not battle).
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
I found a place almost at the very beginning to trainer-fly glitch in Yellow.
This trainer is only in Yellow, and sees you from the maximum distance. He is second last person in Viridian Forest, before the last U-bend:
How to use glitch:
1) Play until you reach Pewter. Get Escape Ropes and Pokeballs.
2) Use Pokecenter.
3) Go back to Viridian Forest and use trainer-fly glitch with Escape Rope.
4) Let the guy outside Pewter take you near Brock's gym.
5) Go and trigger a battle with a Pokemon with a special of 7.
6) Use Pikachu's Growl 6 times on that Pokemon.
7) Go back to Viridian Forest. Clear the message "Hi, do you have a Pikachu?".
8) Get L1 Nidoking.
9) Glitch L1 Nidoking to go to L100.
P.S. I keep getting "You missed the Pokemon" when trying to catch Nidoking.
P.P.S. Not anymore, at least if I damage it with a Pidgey.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
I find that the links to "NES movies" and "SNES movies" (particularly the former) result in tons of movies, complete with tons of screenshots, every time one searches in them for one single movie. It really is confusing to a person who is unfamiliar with this site, apart from using bandwidth on stuff that the person does not care about. The number of NES movies right now is 213. I personally almost never click on the "NES movies" anymore, and instead search the game name or type "movies.cgi?name=...".
Perhaps it would be good to implement, under each system, a list of game names as links, similar to what SDA is doing. I had no problems browsing there.
(Reposted in new topic by primorial#soup's suggestion)primorial#soup wrote:
FractalFusion wrote:
Perhaps it would be good to implement, under each system, a list of game names as links, similar to what SDA is doing. I had no problems browsing there.
This is a great idea; It probably deserves its own thread. I second this idea, but I don't think that the complete list should be done away with, as I think it's still very useful. Perhaps another idea would be to have a combo box on the main page for each system. This way, the user could get where they wanted to go with a single action, instead of being directed to a page of links first.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
I don't know why you guys are even talking about L100 Gyarados. Gyarados does not have fading experience.
On the other hand, Ivysaur is also obtainable (in the area before Mt. Moon), and has fading experience.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
On the topic of clutter, I find that the links to "NES movies" and "SNES movies" (particularly the former) result in tons of movies, complete with tons of screenshots, every time one searches in them for one single movie. It really is confusing to a person who is unfamiliar with this site, apart from using bandwidth on stuff that the person does not care about. The number of NES movies right now is 213. I personally almost never click on the "NES movies" anymore, and instead search the game name or type "movies.cgi?name=...".
Perhaps it would be good to implement, under each system, a list of game names as links, similar to what SDA is doing. I had no problems browsing there.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1943)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3250
CrimsonPride wrote:
In the Morph Moth stage, when you use the charged S. Wheel shot to clear the blocks to get to the Armor Upgrade, you clear both rows of blocks...
... However, if you were to destroy just 1 column of blocks using the charged S.Wheel, X can still hop down the tiny passage on the left/right (on whatever side you decide to do it).
I tried destroying just 1 column of blocks as well as destroying the blocks with a diagonal shot (it's possible). Both led to too much lag (I don't know why). Perhaps the remaining blocks cause lag as you go down the shaft. Lag is inevitable in any case. Thanks for pointing it out anyway.
CrimsonPride wrote:
...its also faster to climb the wall in in the small passage on the way back up from getting the armor upgrade only 1 column is destroyed.
The walls are already very close. Having it closer does not make climbing faster.
How to use glitch:
1) Play until you reach Pewter. Get Escape Ropes and Pokeballs.
2) Use Pokecenter.
3) Go back to Viridian Forest and use trainer-fly glitch with Escape Rope.
4) Let the guy outside Pewter take you near Brock's gym.
5) Go and trigger a battle with a Pokemon with a special of 7.
6) Use Pikachu's Growl 6 times on that Pokemon.
7) Go back to Viridian Forest. Clear the message "Hi, do you have a Pikachu?".
8) Get L1 Nidoking.
9) Glitch L1 Nidoking to go to L100.
P.S. I keep getting "You missed the Pokemon" when trying to catch Nidoking.
P.P.S. Not anymore, at least if I damage it with a Pidgey.