TASVideos

Posted: 1/19/2009 5:53 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I think this problem has been greatly over exaggerated. Firstly, yes it is true that a new TASer will look to more popular games to TAS and yes it is true that most of them have been beaten to perfection. Although, to be realistic, most new users would surely expect that with no experience of TASing it is unlikely that they will immeadiately set a new SMB3 record. It is much the same as new users on SDA don't have any realistic expectation to improve the Quake records any time soon. There is a learning curve to every new activity and surely the average non-idiotic new user expects this (this goes doubly for TASvideos, a site which most people are unlikely to stumble upon completely by accident and will usually go through a hyperlink trail of speedrun related material to get here and so they will usually generally know what to expect). Also, the general content of the site is nowhere near as close to perfection as some of you seem to think. We have over 500 games published here, less than 20 (probably) are anywhere near theoretical perfection, less than 10% (probably) are improvable by less than 5 - 10 seconds and the remainder is improvable by anything from 10 seconds up until potentially a minute or two (and then some). Remember that although popular games attract competition, the same can be said of improvable runs (even if the reason is as cheap as to get your name on the front page for a respectable improvement). Also, people who take an interest in TASing love video games, their knowledge and interest will go beyond far Mario, Zelda, Megaman, Metroid. We all have games that have accumulated over the years that it seems no one knows about that you would hope to see TASed (for nostalgic or sentimental value if anything). The main problem here lies with the percieved learning curve and the actual learning curve. Many newcomers may think that in depth knowledge of disassembly and external tools are required to get a run published. I like the idea of a tutorial page to help dispel some of these ideas, perhaps by putting such advanced techniques where they belong, in an advanced section. This way new TASers would see a clear distinction between what is needed to make a good run and what is luxury. The actual learning curve I don't believe has changed as much as some of you claim it has. Sure, the ceiling is higher than it was before but the bar isn't (or at least not by much). Judges still accept and reject runs for the same reasons as they did 2 years ago. A run of a not-bad game that is at least nominally entertaining and has seen a reasonable amount of effort will still be published. Personally, I'd like to see less runs rejected on a 'bad game' basis as some good ones have been eaten by a grue and some have potential to have more made of them when published (then again, some runs will never be published, no matter how many dinosaurs you colour). The 'pool of games' problem I feel is only even close to being a real issue with the NES (even then there quite a few great games no one has picked up on yet). The floodgates should still be open for the the SNES and N64. Also, I believe that 90% of great GBA games haven't even been considered yet, definitely the most wasted potential at the moment. This will only become less of a problem when PSX and such come along. Also, use your imaginations! Just because a game has a run doesn't mean that you can't expand on it. More playarounds have been suggested, but only a few games are well-suited (and I think that for the sake of consistency part-game glitch demonstrations is a bad idea (that's why we have youtube)) and some would be very cool, but I hope I'm not the only person that is excited by the potential of more 100% runs, glitchless runs, in-game time runs and entertaining 'X-less' runs. New TASers can also use this to TAS popular games even if the any% is too well optimised or subject to other project-mitigating factors (Bloobiebla's OoT All-Quests and Cpadolf's In-Game SM are good recent examples) The game-pool is far from dry in my opinion. I don't expect to see a shortage of runs on the workbench forum any time soon, from TASers new or veteran. There's probably quite a lot more than two cents worth of opinion in there.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/19/2009 4:13 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

TASing capabilities for this console sounds awesome, but I think the amount of potential for the games on it has been vastly overstated. I'd love to TAS Metroid Prime (me and about 10 - 20 others) and seeing (maybe doing) Super Mario Sunshine, Eternal Darkness and Timesplitters 2. I think the majority of other cool games on this console would end up being over long for most people to TAS or watch, which is a real shame.

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Posted: 1/19/2009 3:48 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Reader's lists are useless. Because people are useless. Democracy doesn't work ;-) least of all towards a subjective goal. Knowing this soothes me when I read through much of these placements. Not to rant too much, but: MGS3 in the top 100, let alone above MGS1 is laughable (that's kids for you), Resident Evil 4 really wasn't that good, Civilisation 2 in the top 10? Dream on. CBFD above SMB3...blah blah blah I could go on. Of course, the biggest crime of all is no Majora's Mask, as time goes on it becomes more and more obvious just how much better it was than OoT. A good objective list, if such a thing existed, would put S3&K at the top on the grounds of; ahead of it's time, long but not too long, hard but not too hard, great music , ahead of its time visuals and still better than 99.9999999999999% of games released since. But, meh...

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/19/2009 3:00 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Location: United Kingdom

My vote goes to Mr Aqfaq for dominating the system and for his all the Genesis wisdom he's shared with us this year.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/19/2009 2:48 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
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Overall, I fell that Mischief Makers was the most important N64 TAS this year as it pushed boundaries that OoT didn't (at least not to the same extent) so that gets my vote, although I guess I found OoT more entertaining through familiarity. SM64 was very 'been there done that' and there wasn't enough new to impress me. Turok just made me feel sick.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/14/2009 3:34 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I've always pronounced it as Bisqwit said, but sometimes I pronounce all the letters in certain contexts i.e "I'm logging on to tasvideos!" or "He's made some great tasses!" but sometimes it's "I see no reason to encourage people to T.A.S! The site has survived well on a 'do it if you want to' basis". Kind of weird, but still no idea where some people get 'tazz' from...

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/13/2009 10:47 AM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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:-D I've been looking forward to this for a long time, but I still didn't expect it so soon. That was simply amazing, really surpising new strategies in Bubbleman, Clashman, Woodman and against Mecha Dragon. I've never given a 10/10 before, but this masterpiece is more than deserving. Very entertaining, great game for TASing, cool glitches but the best levels still remain somewhat intact. Technically so much commitment has gone into making this as optimal as possible and it really shows. 30 seconds of improvement is far more than I thought possible. 10 for entertainment. 10 for tech. Easy.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 1/7/2009 2:45 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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I really like mz's idea of "best never officially submitted TAS" and I'd like to throw in a nomination for Swordless Link's 16-star SM64. Perhaps another category to have could be "contributor of the year" (a less ambiguous title would be good too) to award to a user that hasn't submitted any TASes this year but has contributed substantially to many published runs through help and support to the authors. Also, on that note awarding to other aspects of the site such as coder/publisher/encoder of the year would be cool too. Perhaps a "best first-generation run" (a movie that doesn't obsolete another) or a "most surprising obsoletion". Also, since most of the nominations are of popular games it might be cool to have a "best TAS of a hidden-gem/non famous game" although this would probably be too arbitrary to properly apply (or maybe "best non-franchise TAS"?). Just a few ideas...

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Posted: 12/27/2008 2:47 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Apologies. ... that's very odd...? Updating... EDIT: I've fixed the file but am experiencing some internet voodoo at the moment, so I won't be able to upload the new .gmv anywhere for a few hours. Sit tight. EDIT 2: Here's the new .gmv. I've already PM'd it to admin, but here it is until the change is made. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/730094280/toystory.gmv

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/25/2008 11:08 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I travel around the country quite often and will usually upload a few TASes to my iPod to watch during the journey. I don't know about you, but I can be quite a restless traveler so I only ever upload runs that I really enjoy rather than ones I've never seen. The rationale behind this is that I don't want to get halfway through a long ass train ride just to realise that all the runs I've uploaded suck. At least with movies I've seen I know I'll be content and comfortable through the journey. I usually go for runs that I haven't seen in a while. I also usually upload runs in the 20 - 40 minute time range because shorter runs don't really pass any time at all and longer is worse (if journey is dragging on the last thing you want is for the run to drag on too). If I only had 2GB right now I'd probably go for: [712] Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles (any) by Nitsuja in 35:19.62 (208Mb) (probably now unavailable) [1119] NES Castlevania 2 – Simon's Quest (USA) by zggzdydp in 29:45.02 (70Mb) [1038] SNES Goof Troop (USA) by Randil & mmbossman in 16:36.57 (52Mb) [741] NES Mega Man 2 (JPN) by Shinryuu in 25:01.72 (46Mb) [1064] Genesis Streets of Rage (any) by AKA & Mukki in 19:45.45 (47Mb) [468] GBA Sonic Advance 2 (USA) by Nitsuja in 18:44.97 (65Mb) Not all of them are my favourite runs, but the mix is important. Even then that's only about 2.5 hours. If that's your best conversion rate then you might have to resort to some good old-fashioned looking out the window. Or if you choose really good movies you can watch them again ;-)

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Posted: 12/25/2008 10:34 AM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Merry Christmas TASvideos! Now I get to spend the day raiding my brother's new Wii games. Looks like I've got a busy few days ahead of me ;-)

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Posted: 12/24/2008 1:28 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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I wouldn't consider this game to be overly entertaining, although you guys seem to have a good grasp of TASing it and I think it complements CT1 well. I agree with ShinyDoofy that it's probably within the 6.5 to 7 entertainment category, but I guess that depends on how long the TAS would be. If it's over 30 minutes I think you may struggle to keep it entertaining. I'd say that you should at least provide a WIP of level 2 to give everyone a better representation of the run before coming to any conclusions.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/24/2008 1:08 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Wow, I didn't expect such a large improvement to your last movie. That was some gooooooooood stuff. But all this Shinryuu goodness just makes me anticipate a new Rockman 2 run even more. Something to put on my next christmas list anyway ;-)

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Posted: 12/23/2008 9:07 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Heh, that little glitch at the start was seriously nice. I've never seen that trick before, another Swordless Link original? How many frames did you save in the temple so far? It's a shame you never went as far as Goht because I was looking forward to seeing what you came up with :-P Something to keep in mind when you get around to doing this again is when you fire arrow the tunnel (the next thing you would've done had the video not ended) is to try and recoil flip (its crappy MM equivalent) or something similar into the tunnel. I remember testing it quite a bit but it was always just out of reach so I had to go all the way around. I'm sure that you could find a way to do it. Also, after defeating Goht if you have a spare bomb your superslide technique might save a bit of time (using it after Goht is the first thing I thought of when I saw it). Finding the optimal position to hit Goht without him hitting you takes quite a bit of testing and I'm not convinced that mine's was the best possible so it'll be cool see what you do.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/15/2008 12:22 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Thanks for all the feedback. As far as GA 1 goes I'm still sticking with a 1-player run; I've experimented with it quite a bit and I've decided a 2P is far less entertaining, mainly because of what trazz has already said and on another note the screen scrolls far slower making the movement more jagged and sloppy looking. I've not progressed much further; I still suspect that screen 2 may be improvable by 3 frames, perhaps the fourth screen by a little (but not likely) and I'm not convinced that the boss strategy is the fastest, there's still a few things I'd like to try out. The luck manipulation in the bonus rounds will be hellish, although I've not tried it yet (if anyone, for whatever reason, has the RNG address(es) lying around that'd be awesome and would save me some time). Because of the randomness everything thus far is subject to change. I've decided to make GA2 a 2-player run. There are more enemies in a two-playered game making it more interesting from a TAS perspective. I've progressed about halfway through the first level. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/565231972/goldenaxe2.gmv All the enemies so far have 16HP and, unlike GA1, the downward stab does 12HP rather than 16HP damage. The fastest method to dispose of these enemies is two slashes (2HP each) then the downward stab. This game is considerably easier to optimise than GA1 as it is easier to connect with the downward stab and the enemies are generally more aggressive. As to GA3 I knew the team attacks were the most powerful but I'd hoped that of all the attacks in this game there would be some alternatives to keep it interesting. I haven't experimented too extensively yet, but I think moozooh may be right, in which case a fastest time run wouldn't make for an interesting TAS. Shame. I'll make a WIP and see how it looks. I've been disgustingly busy over the last few weeks but now I'm much more free so I should be able to make some nice proress here.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/8/2008 4:30 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Instant stars (2 Stars) Super Mario 64 "0 star" Gunstar Heroes "2 player" I'm not sure if I agree with this category at all now. Is its purpose to reward runs that are so undeniably representative of TASing that they must be starred? Or is it just a pedestal upon which to put runs that have completely trancended their own categories? Originally, with movies like Gradius in here it was the former, now I believe it to be the latter. I think Gunstar Heroes can take its star back to the Gens/Snes section since it will win it anyway (I think 3 stars between two well contested consoles is reasonable), and since there seems to be some support for removing the N64 category then SM64 may as well just have that star. SMW (1 Star) SMW small only SMW any% SMW any% without a shadow of a doubt. In any case I think small-only would lose most of the support it has if their was a more modern 96-exit run. Sonic (2 Stars) Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Advance 2 Sonic The Hedgehog Sonic The Hedgehog 2 I still think S3&K is awesome, but I've read some very convincing arguments about why Sonic 2 should get it instead. Any combination of S3&K, Sonic 2 and SA2 is more than deserving in my opinion. Super Metroid (1 Star) Super Metroid any% glitched Super Metroid any% real time Super Metroid any% ingame time Super Metroid 100% The 100% is my favourite of these, but I argree entirely that it shouldn't get the star if one of the GBA 100% runs gets it. As a casual SM fan I don't think that either the real time or the in game stands out to any great length over the other entertainment wise so I'd be much more interested in the opinions of the SM thread regulars on this matter. Metroid (1 Star) Metroid Zero Mission 100% Metroid any% Metroid Fusion 100% I've not seen the new MF run yet, and I haven't seen MZM in a few months so I need to watch it again. I'll watch these runs again over the next few days and try and give a more useful opinion. Megaman (1 Star) Mega Man 1 Mega Man 2 MM1 has been an important run on this site for so long and is a favourite run of mine...but I'd prefer the star to go to MM2. It's nicely gliched, but not too glitched, also I think the music in this game is ever so slightly better... ;-) I think it best represents Mega Man TASing on this site. Rockman and Forte (1 Star) Rockman and Forte any% Rockman and Forte “100 CDs” Any% for me. I really enjoyed it. The amount of glitchiness in this run flirts with the phrase "too glitchy", but it is just intact enough to be completely awesome. I'm not an expert on the matter, but I think most of the new glitches were discovered after the 100 CDs was made, but I don't know how applicable they are on the tech side. Zelda (1 Star) The Legend of Zelda Links Awakening DX Legend of Zelda is so satisfying to watch. Especially beating manhandla with one bomb, always my favourite part. Definite category winner here. Castlevania (2 Stars) Castlevania Castlevania: HoD Castlevania: CotM NES and CotM for the same reasons I stated previously. Wire TAS (1 Star) Ninja Five-0 Umihara Kawase Spiderman 3 Bionic Commando I still doubt the necessity of this category. I'm still with BC, but barely. I'd love to see an Umihara Kawase run that takes a really long route through the game (longer than the sightseeing) with the level of optimisation seen in the current TAS. That run it have my star vote so fast. Special concept (3 Stars) MMX+MMX2 Gradius Kings Bounty Monopoly River City Ransom Lost Vikings Despite losing out in the instant star category Gradius still rules so that's one star. MMX + MMX2 and King's Bounty for the other two. NES games (5 Stars) Super Mario Bros 3 any% Excitebike Battle of Olympus Ninja Gaiden 2 Darkwing Duck Mega Man 5 Gimmick! Super Mario Bros 2 Journey to Silius Arkanoid “Warpless” Legend of Zelda 2 Battletoads “2 player warpless” A very strong top three from me is SMB3, Darkwing Duck and Ninja Gaiden 2. The other two would be Mega Man 5 and a toss between Exitebike/Gimmick!. I prefer the latter, but Exitebike has more star quality. SNES/Gens games (2 Stars) Biker Mice from Mars Sparkster Donkey Kong Country Golden Axe Rocket Knight Adventures Comix Zone The Mask If Exitebike is starred I don't think Biker Mice should be. Both those runs are special for similar reasons and because stars are so limited across Genesis and SNES I think the star can be better spent. Similarly, Sparkster and RKA shouldn't both be starred. My two here would be Sparkster and Golden Axe, but The Mask and DKC are close. In fact, I think starring a run in the DKC series would be a good idea, but I don't know the series well enough to make a proper judgement. N64 (1 Star) Majora’s Mask Goldeneye I'm still with Goldeneye here for the same reasons as before. On removing this category I'm still undecided. I think that GE is more than deserving of a star, on that alone I believe the category should remain. I don't think that giving the GBA a category would be the best move as the best movies in the GBA section are already represented in the franchise-specific categories. I think that if it was then the runs that have been dropped out of the game categories would just end up renominated in the GBA category. Considering that the object of a GBA category would be to encourage diversity in what games stars have been given to, I think that this would be counter-intuitive. However, if the instant stars are removed then SM64 could keep its star, have that be the N64 star, and have the N64 star go to the GBA.

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Posted: 12/8/2008 1:55 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Location: United Kingdom

My Gex 64 run is very improvable. It'd be awesome if you tried to improve it. It's a pretty simple game and improving a published movie would give you a nice confidence boost. Otherwise, games I would like to see TASed (competently) that haven't already been done as you say would be: Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire Castlevania Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness South Park To name but a few, but most of what you are asking can be found in this thread.

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Posted: 12/8/2008 1:08 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

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Any game you enjoy and are familiar with is a good game to TAS...whether or not it is entertaining will decide if it will be published or not :-) I'm pretty familiar with most games for the N64, and the emulator, so I could give you a few pointers. If you posted (or PM'd me) a list of games you like I could give an opinion on how good they would be. Of course, that's all it would be, an opinion. Comicalflop, Raiscan and I tested a lot of ROMs for the N64 on mupen a few years ago, but the website we hosted the opinions on folded. Shame.

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Posted: 12/6/2008 3:39 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

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Heh, that game wasn't as bad as you made it sound...or maybe your TAS was just really successful. 6.5/8 from me. Not too shabby.

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Posted: 12/5/2008 5:00 PM

Post subject: Golden Axe 1, 2 and 3

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Note: I'm aware that there is already a Golden Axe topic, but for what I am doing I think it'd be better to do this in one topic rather than having three. For a few months now I've been picking at trying to improve the current Golden Axe TAS by Trazz with a few to going on to TAS Golden Axe 2 and 3 in the future. However, I've noticed that I get the best results when working on it solidly so I'm going to work on all these games at the same time. Golden Axe http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/833501175/goldenaxe.gmv This is an improvement of 26 frames to level 1. This is more than I expected considering how little room there is for new strategies. Screen 1 is improved by 4 frames by hitting the longmoan higher in its hitbox. The strategy is the same. Screen 2 is not improved. The Longmoan and the Heninger both have 16HP. The downward stab does 16HP worth of damage and I was able to manipulate the enemies so that I hit them both with it but doing so takes too long. Manipulating them to cross over so that they can be hit with two 2HP slices and 12HP back attack is difficult in itself and there is not much room for change. Screen 3 is improved by 10 frames. 6 frames were saved by manipulating the Storchinaya to walk into the back attack earlier. 4 frames are saved by a nice little oddity that let me get in behind the chicken leg and use a back attack and move out of the way before Tyris mounts it. Screen 4 is essentially two one-on-ones and so nothing is improved. Screen 5, the boss battle, is nicely improved by 12 frames. 10 frames are saved by a nice little glitch that lets me hit the upper bad brother before he comes on the screen :-) a further 2 frames are saved by a cool new battle strategy. I have a massive amount of respect for Trazz's run. If anyone has any ideas for improvement please raise them because I hope to make a very good job of this run. I've chosen to make this a single player run. A two-player run would be considerably faster, but because there are no more enemies or challenges it would essentially be a two player run of a single player game. I don't believe this would be as entertaining from a TAS perspective, but I'm very interested to hear other people's opinions. Golden Axe 2 This is still in the planning stages, but I should be able to start recording this week. All I can say now is that there will be a lot of AI abuse in this run :-) I made a very half-assed real time speedrun of this game a while ago. I made it so I could watch something along with the RAM to make better notes about enemies and strategies without having to physically play the game at the same time. However, if you have never played Golden Axe 2 before and are curious as to how the game looks then you may like it. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1803778989/Golden%20Axe%20II%20%28W%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv I've still not decided wether this will be one or two player. I'm leaning towards single player but I may change my mind. Opinions are very welcome. Golden Axe 3 This is the game I'm least familiar with having never owned it (it was only released in Japan). There is the option to take many routes through the game and I have yet to decide which is the fastest so it may take a while to get this off the ground. This game is quite long aswell and would work best as a two-player run. Like above I've made a (quater-assed) speedrun of this game that some people may find interesting. Unfortunately, there is not huge potential for stupidity abuse in this game (but there is some), but the wealth of routes, attacks, magic and characters should make up for it :-D http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1725825929/Golden%20Axe%20III%20%28J%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv

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Posted: 12/5/2008 3:37 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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Swordless, that was disgusting amounts of awesome. Getting the rupees in Termina Field was a stroke of genius. I'm very happy that you've stuck with this despite all the redos as you're bringing some great stuff. Seriously, redoing the entire run from Snowhead? I'd have given up aaaaaaages ago ;-)

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Posted: 12/3/2008 4:44 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
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I seem to remember AngerFist saying he was going to improve Kung Fu...don't know how that went... Anyway, movies I don't think are improvable (that haven't been mentioned): Atlantis No Nazo by Vatchern Castlevania by Phil and Morrison Castlevania HOD glitched by klmz Karate Kid by Nitsuja

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Posted: 12/1/2008 4:28 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Instant stars (4 Stars) SMB3 any% Excitebike Super Mario 64 "0 star" Gradius I disagree that exitebike should get an instant star. The movie is funny and novel, but is the glitch really so representative of TASing that it should be in this category? I think it should be in the NES one, where it would probably still do well. Super Mario World (1 Star) Super Mario World "small only" Super Mario World any% Super Mario World 96exit Super Demo World 120exit I love playing SMW, but find TASes of it quite tiresome. I held this opinion strongly until I saw Mister's run. It is phenomenal and I think is the clear winner here. Small only is cool, but absolutely meaningless from most perspectives if you haven't played the game. 96exit is cool but isn't even in Mister's league. I'm fundamentally against hacked games having stars since they are such a cult/niche interest. Starring SDW and not the others for a game as popular as SMW doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sonic (2 Stars) Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Advance 2 Sonic The Hedgehog Sonic The Hedgehog 2 The toughest decision. All these runs are so awesome. S3&K is a definite. Nitsuja's v1 was an absolute masterpiece, I still watch it more than the published run, the v2 was a little bit too glitched for my liking and v3 has the same problem but with ugly glitches. I still think it's the best run on the site though and deserves a star. S1 is great but I don't think it really has a shout here. It's close between S2 and SA2 for the star. I think the best run to give it to is Sonic Advance 2; it's more different than S3&K than S2 is and the run is so fast. I'd still love to see Sonic 2 keep it's star though... Metroid (2 Stars) Super Metroid 100% Metroid Zero mission 100% Metroid any% SM 100% definite, and probably MZM too, but I'm still not totally convinced that Metroid needs two stars. Megaman (1 Star) Mega Man 1 Mega Man 2 Another very close one... I'd have to say Mega Man 2 although this is based very strongly on personal preference rather than any great deal of objective reasoning. I love both runs and games but I think Rockman 2 better represents the NES Rockman games and TASing. Both have an equally high level of optimisation so I don't believe there is anything in Rockman that can outweigh what I've said about Rockman 2. However, I still think giving the star to Rockman could be justified. Zelda (1 Star) Legend of Zelda A Link to the Past Links Awakening DX At the moment I'd say LoZ would be best, although I think ALttP will probaly steal it when Tompa finishes his awesome run. Castlevania (2 Stars) Castlevania Castlevania: HoD Castlevania: CotM Super Castlevania IV For the first star I think NES Castlevania should definitely get it. One of the best TASes ever made. Nuff said. For the second I think Cardboard's long CotM is the best representative of the GBA Castlevanias. The GBA series is sufficiently different to justify a second star. Wire TAS (1 Star) Ninja Five-0 Umihara Kawase Spiderman 3 Bionic Commando I think wire TAS runs are really cool, but does the concept really deserve its own star category? I'm still undecided. If choosing a run that best represents a wire TAS I'd nominate Bionic Commando. I don't think Spiderman 3 is enough of a wire TAS in this context to be the wire TAS and I think that although Umihara Kawase is an aesthetically beautiful game I think BC represents everything better. Although, I do believe Spiderman to be the most entertaining movie by far (which is why I'm questioning the necessity of this category). Special concept (2 Stars) MMX+MMX2 (2 games with one input) Kings Bounty (skipped game by luck manipulation) Monopoly (skipped game by luck manipulation) Nightmare on Elmstreet “4player” (4 players) Lost Vikings (3 players) River City Ransom (playaround) For special concept I'd have to go for King's Bounty and MMX + MMX2. An entire game beaten in less than 10 seconds is mind-numbing. Also, I love the idea of buying King's Bounty from amazon.com and completing it before the postman has left your driveway. This is a much better proof of the particular concept than monopoly is. I think the bi-game concept is much better for a star than 'one player controls X characters', especially as this has become somewhat trivial with multi-track recording. NES games (3 Stars) Ninja Gaiden 2 Darkwing Duck Mega Man 5 Gimmick! Super Mario Bros 2 Journey to Silius Batman Arkanoid “Warpless” Battle of Olympus Legend of Zelda 2 Battletoads “2 player warpless” For the individual console stars I think deviating from the popular franchises would be best as they already have their own categories above. Darkwing Duck should be starred as it is an amazing example of lag management, plus it's really entertaining. I think Gimmick! should get the second star. It's a colourful, fast, game that's very entertaining even if you don't know it. Riding on the stars is interesting from an optimisation standpoint as well. SNES games (2 Stars) Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island Rockman and Forte "100 CDs" Sparkster Donkey Kong Country 1 any% Biker Mice from Mars The Mask Still not totally decided here, and to be honest I think better nominations can be made. I'd like to see the R&F any% be starred as that run largely outdates the 100 CD run. I'll think more on this later. Genesis (1 Star) Gunstar Heroes “ 2 player” Ecco (which run?) Dynamite headdy Golden Axe Comix Zone This one is Golden Axe all the way for me. Some people have criticised it for being a typical hack 'n' slash game, but Trazz's run transcends this. He beats enemies so quickly that many parts of the run scroll like a platformer, also having enemies kill themselves while Tyris stands and watches is brilliant, plus many other awesome aspects. I can vouch for its optimisation aswell, having spent months TASing it with only 14 frames gained on the first level so far. N64 (1 Star) Majora’s Mask Goldeneye Mischief Makers Super Mario 64 120 star[/quote] I think if only two N64 runs will be starred then SM64 doesn't need another one. Similarly, while Mischief Makers is awesome, I think his star should demonstrate good 3D optmisation and that run demonstarates incredible optimisation in a 2D game. Similarly, Majora's Mask isn't optimal enough to be starred and Swordless Link will improve on the current run by 3-4 minutes which I believe to be too much for a starred run. Having said that I do think MM is worthy of a star so I think that when the time comes SL's run should definitely be considered. I think Goldeneye should definitely be starred. Very optimal, very entertaining. There's a lot of this I want to think over in the coming days so this isn't final. Also, I have a few opinions on categories and runs that I can't properly phrase at the moment and need to think on more.

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Posted: 11/26/2008 11:37 AM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I watched this and thought it was pretty good. I didn't watch the first version, but this seems to be markedly improved. I've never thought this was the best game in the world for TASing, but I think this run makes it work so positive ratings from me. 6 for entertainment. 7 for Tech.

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Posted: 11/25/2008 9:04 PM

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Mukki

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Comicalflop wrote:

I meant runs that are currently being improved shouldn't be on the list.

I disagree with this for a few reasons: 1) If the original movie is starred the star will eventually make its way to the new run by inheritance anyway. If a run is being improved I don't personally believe that this should undermine the quality of the original as it may well still have the traits of a presentable, well-done TAS. 2) Not all projects are public, in fact I'd argue that very few of them are. Theoretically, we could find ourselves in situations in which a user simply states they are working on a starred run, backing it up with some improvements and WIPs, and this would justify removing said star. Conversely, this could be done, minus the public WIPs, and the star would be allowed to remain. I feel this is unfair as it would be impossible to apply consistently. Runs would lose or keep stars based entirely on how public an author chooses to make his project. 3) If someone announces they are working on a project, this doesn't necessarily mean they will finish it. We all know how volatile some projects can be. I'd say this is especially true of starred runs due to the high level of precision and luck manipulation involved in improving so many of these TASes. Most authors wouldn't continue a project if they couldn't match or impove these factors and sometimes such things (especially randomness and hypothetical frames) can prove too difficult / or impossible. The best example illustrating this that I can think of was when nitsuja attempted to improve Genisto's SMB3 run. He released a WIP improving his run and discussed ways he intended to further improve it later on. This WIP was ultimately discontinued. At which point should we have removed the star? When he released the WIP and confirmed further improvements? Clearly too early as the WIP was discontinued. There would have been a point where SMB3 had no star and there was no improvement being worked on, which is counter-intuitive to the entire system as the SMB3 TAS is one of the most recognisable TASes on the site. Would it have it have been better to remove it later, when it could be assumed the run would be finished? Firstly, there's a lot of ambiguity as to when this point is. Secondly, a project will always be subject to the factors and hinderances I've listed above. Thirdly, I don't think it makes sense to remove a star for a short period just to reaward it to a run that is pending submission / publication. ...but that's just my opinion. I'd be interested in your retort to these points :-)

Baxter wrote:

This is about what I would have in mind doing...

I like this idea. I said before that which movies are starred seems to be heavily influenced by the community, but I think having this as formal influence backed up with objective discussion would better achieve these goals. What you are suggesting doesn't differ greatly from the current situation as the ultimate decision would still be made by one person (and whether it is exactly the same depends on how much authority that person affords to the formal star discussions), but I have no problem with you taking that role. I think it would work well.

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