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Unless you can get a stunner or invincibility, not much point in planning optimal gem collection route.
The planning needed here is stuff like go right or left first? (I'm thinking grab left most, middle right, up a level, those two...)
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New release up.
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feos wrote:
Hence I asked to upload the build where these fixes are finally applied.
I can do that... I'm just worried about the plugin issue which needs testing. I guess I should make a second repo for alternate release on my machine...
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hegyak wrote:
Wow. This is the first time I have seen a TAS start from zero and go on it's way to a full submission.
Don't forget that you're helping too!
hegyak wrote:
I used to play the older version of this game and I was trying to figure out why the levels were in such an odd order.
There were a few demos put out that have a sample of 10 levels, but not in the same order as the full game.
The game also went through several revisions, where levels are tweaked a bit with different enemies and stuff.
Software Creations also put out a 35 level version, which doesn't have the other 65 levels, those that are there have some order changes, and the enemy tweaks too.
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I think there was a bug in my release. Some of my improvements got reverted right before release :/
I also need to double check that my recompiles of plugins don't break anything.
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slamo wrote:
I'm going to test other routes so I don't know if this is going to be the final version or not, but I thought I'd post it anyway.
Regarding your earlier route, keep these possible changes in mind:
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slamo wrote:
I thought it was kind of funny how I dealt with the trackbot.
:D :D :D !!!
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Svimmer: In the IRC channel, every edit is reported, so if we see two edits back to back, we know to check to see if the latter accidentally reverted the former.
You can join us on IRC too!
Edit:
We make use of this: http://tasvideos.org/pageinfo.exe?page=GameResources%2FDOS%2FJetpack
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slamo wrote:
I didn't test it, since the gem is 4 blocks away if you get it on the way down instead of 5 blocks away if you get it on the way up. It's gotta be faster, especially since the gem hitbox is biased towards the left side (I should post this on the RP actually).
Well, those are my thoughts too, hence why I suggested it. I'm just wondering if due to acceleration and so on, perhaps you were right originally?
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slamo wrote:
Level 3 (glitched sound):
Link to video
Watch as I come hilariously close to dying multiple times. I tried Nach's route but it wasn't faster, it was off by about 0.8 s.
Grabbing the center gem above the door later like this turned out faster than the other way though, right? Or was that not tested?
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Svimmer wrote:
Nach wrote:
Tiles is used in the level editor, because it's tiles!
Block is used in the official documentation.
I think what "block" means in the manual is the editor feature that allows mass populating/copying and things. Otherwise it talks about bricks and steel barriers and things.
The hintbook uses the terms interchangeably. In fact it even has an instance of "tile block". I'll just give both alternatives on the RP, but I'd like you to admit that it's not always 100% clear what the "official" term is.
My point was that both are official terms. Therefore both are perfectly legal.
Svimmer wrote:
Nach wrote:
It's better to use an official term instead of each of us making up our own.
I get it you agree that creating conventions (whatever it's based on) is an ok idea. However, what if the official word is a)difficult to tell what it actually is?
When the official term is very difficult, then there's definitely room for improvement. Hence I said earlier I agree with your Spikes (spinning) -> Spinners.
Svimmer wrote:
or b) counter-intuitive? I feel like you're not giving me a lot of credit here. And I'm trying hard to avoid making it seem like I wanna impose my opinions on anyone, but aren't your opinions of the same weight? I know people can be used to expressing themselves differently, e.g. I know I'm always a bit wary about making statements that sound categorical.
Stick to official where you can, if it's problematic, bring it up.
For example, the game has "barriers". I find it perfectly understandable what they are. I don't find it being confused with other things in the game. Therefore, we don't need to make up new terminology for it.
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Thanks, will see about getting these up too.
Okay, it's all up thank you very much.
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hegyak wrote:
I think these are crappy images. But DOSBox made it happen. Here's levels 0 through 25.
They're tiny, but pretty good. Thank you.
I'll see about getting them up.
Edit:
It's up.
Extremely useful for the levels with false walls / blocks.
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Nach wrote:
Thanks creaothceann, I'll post them on the site.
In case you guys didn't notice, they're all up.
Edit:
I extracted all the levels, so you can view each one in the level editor.
When viewed in the editor, all the false walls are made visible, and the name of the level also appears below. This way you can also jump to a level directly to play with it, instead of skipping till you get there like a madman.
Can I trouble you guys to get nice PNGs of the false wall levels? Thanks.
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Svimmer wrote:
Do you guys think it would be a good idea to make it possible for people to assume responsibility for sections of the RP?
Contribute what you can and we'll work it out. Although if someone wants to take it upon themselves to do a large job, alert the others, so there's no overlap of work.
Svimmer wrote:
I'll suggest names like "R-tele" or simply "R-teleporter" in the next draft.
The latter is fine.
Svimmer wrote:
About staying with in-game and manual naming... We already seem to be using a lot of names that are completely different from the manual. E.g. hardly anyone has used "tiles" for "blocks".
Tiles is used in the level editor, because it's tiles!
Block is used in the official documentation.
Svimmer wrote:
The ball-type enemy is called "Steel Ball".
It's also referred to as a Marble. Either is fine.
Svimmer wrote:
Also, I don't get the feeling the manual is so profoundly thought-out, it for example has a mistake where it describes what ice does (seems a mistake to me, maybe not).
But it's official. It's better to use an official term instead of each of us making up our own.
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Thanks creaothceann, I'll post them on the site.
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Radiant wrote:
Also, "teal"? I thought it was more of an aquamarine :P
I myself just thought it was close enough to green, and it referred to it as such.
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Here's an image of all the things that can kill you.
Someone want to break that up into separate images so we can use them on the wiki page in a nice manner?
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There's something useful that can help.
Can someone go play ahead for say the next 5 levels, and grab decent PNGs of each of them? This way we have clean screenshots to work with, that level thinkers can start fresh with, and draw on as needed.
For screenshots, use 8 bit PNG to save the most space. This will certainly help loading times when we have a bunch on a page.
If using Image Magick:
convert original.png png8:modified.png
This will vastly reduce the color space. Then use your favorite image compressor to get it a bit lower.
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Regarding naming on the wiki page, I dislike the idea of using obscure acronyms. I mean "TTP"? Come on! (Yes, we all know that TTP stands for "The TTP Project".)
I also think we should stick to in-game/manual naming as much as possible. Although I agree with the suggestion we should say spike(s) and spinner(s) instead of spike(s) and spikes (spinning).
Edit:
To allow abbreviated naming, I think an obvious letter and a dash can be used. So b-teleporter instead of blue teleporter would be fine.
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Edit:
Sorry forgot a part in that route. Right before going down and left, visit the green teleporter.
Edit2:
slamo wrote:
How to handle the start - phase down? Get the jetpack ASAP?
Probably.
slamo wrote:
Phasing up from the red switch or going around
Or ignoring it entirely.
slamo wrote:
Entering the "red gate" room from the top or the right
Or via the teleporter.
However, if a teleporter path is slower, I think if we can work it via the right, we'd travel less if we take the right.
slamo wrote:
How much the trackbot will troll, and how to deal with it
It probably will if you take the road as is as in your picture. I think you'll need to phase around it.
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Nach wrote:
Is general, is it faster to fall down or fly up? Or are they the same?
Okay, Ilari and I added more info to the page.
Help out guys if you can! If you don't have access to edit, please ask for it.
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Regarding the gem in the middle right above the door, is it faster to get it before visiting the top half like illustrated, or perhaps on the way back right before the gem to the left of it is nabbed?
Edit:
Ignoring what I just said, here's the alternate left corner I was thinking about:
I really wish I had some numbers in front of me how long it took to bust the strong bricks.
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The worm caused some problems here, and fuel was actually an issue as well, I had to pick up both tanks. The worm got in the way of both routes, so the one I used here has the least hindrance from it.
Is general, is it faster to fall down or fly up? Or are they the same?
Of the previously mentioned routes, a lot is interchangeable due to their being divergent paths all around the green teleporters. That should allow working around the worm of marbles if some proposed method runs into them.
slamo wrote:
It flows pretty logically to me, I can't think of any other drastically different route that would work.
I have some ideas about the upper left corner, I'll think more about it.
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Someone want to break that up into separate images so we can use them on the wiki page in a nice manner?
Edit:
Sorry forgot a part in that route. Right before going down and left, visit the green teleporter.
Edit2:
I really wish I had some numbers in front of me how long it took to bust the strong bricks.It flows pretty logically to me, I can't think of any other drastically different route that would work.