Post by nitsuja

Showing items [1 - 9] of 9

Posted: 1/24/2011 3:34 AM

Post subject: Exploiting bugs in game's cheat codes handling routines

Quote

IsraeliRD

Player (192)

Joined: 10/23/2010
Posts: 49
Location: Australia

I was talking to Nach about Hocus Pocus and it led into discussion about the game's cheat codes. Typing any of these results in the following: BANANA - 3 laser shots FEELGOOD - 100% health QUARK - rapid fire BLAKE - Gold + Silver keys After some discussion, Nach stumbled upon a bug: As long as the first key (B, F, Q) is in the right spot, any of the remaining letters can come at any place, and it would award you their respective bonus. For example, bnnaaa gives you 3 laser shots, bekal gives you both keys etc. However, there are additional bugs: Writing bnanana gives you 100% health, but no laser shots Writing bananana (or a misspelling that ends with the 4th 'na' [e.g. bnnaaana]) gives you both Laser and Health bonuses. However, this may be half intentional. The question for TASvideos is now this: Can you exploit a bug in the game's cheat handling routines and have it accepted in a TAS? Remember: an unbugged cheat code is NEVER used.

Posted: 1/24/2011 4:05 AM

Quote

Patashu

He/Him

Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014

Psychologically it looks like a normal cheat code, so no.

My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu

Posted: 1/24/2011 4:27 AM

Quote

moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

It may not even be a bug, just the way a game handles cheat code input. Why would you do that anyway?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 1/24/2011 4:56 AM

Quote

Brushy

Former player

Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587

Cheat code is a cheat code, so no.

Posted: 1/24/2011 5:57 AM

Post subject: Re: Exploiting bugs in game's cheat codes handling routines

Quote

DarkKobold

Skilled player (1636)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

IsraeliRD wrote:

The question for TASvideos is now this: Can you exploit a bug in the game's cheat handling routines and have it accepted in a TAS? Remember: an unbugged cheat code is NEVER used.

The problem I see isn't so much the rules, as the entertainment factor. These cheat codes are going to appear to the viewer to be the same as entering a normal cheat code. Therefore, it will make your character more powerful, without adding to the entertainment. Generally speaking, we try and slate things against our character as much as possible, by selecting highest difficulty, using a code to make the game MORE difficult, and more. Then, the movie looks more impressive when the hero dances and prances through the game. This is the real reason cheat codes aren't generally accepted.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 1/24/2011 6:13 AM

Quote

Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

You reminded me of the idea to use a cheat in Wario Land to set the timer to exactly the amount of time it takes to complete the level, so that technically it's making the game as "difficult" as possible. But that's pointless: It doesn't really raise the danger level when in a TAS you know Wario isn't going to die, and if the viewer wants to know how long a level took, they can look at the time left over and subtract it from the starting amount. No need for the TASer to do that and go to the trouble of retroactively inserting it at the beginning for no real gain. Doing so only turns the timer into a run-specific countdown, which could ruin the element of surprise by revealing how long the level is going to take and how close Wario is to finishing. So when you propose entering cheat codes, you have to think about whether you're really enhancing the struggle your character is going through, or whether you just want to show off that you "thought of everything" by coming up with a way to excuse a silly cheat on a technicality.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 1/24/2011 6:30 AM

Quote

Patashu

He/Him

Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

You reminded me of the idea to use a cheat in Wario Land to set the timer to exactly the amount of time it takes to complete the level, so that technically it's making the game as "difficult" as possible.

I actually think that would be really cool. You'd see e.g. 12 seconds and think 'WTF, how's he going to pull that off?'

Posted: 1/24/2011 6:39 AM

Quote

nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

There are a few cases where cheat codes are acceptable. I think there has been a precedent for all of the following:

if it's the only way to play on the hardest difficulty or an alternate mode or extra area of the game (or if the only alternatives are to record two TASes in one movie or record starting from SRAM or savestate)
if it doesn't change the gameplay at all
if the TAS wouldn't stand much of a chance of being accepted otherwise, for instance if there are too many long and boring levels, but a cheat code can skip them
if it arguably isn't a cheat because the player is expected to use it because it is in the manual or has been shown in-game prior to entering it
if the TAS is intended as a concept demo or playaround (I can't remember if this has come into play specifically, but it's normal for such runs to contain things that would be rule-breaking for standard TASes)

If there's a bug that changes the effects of a cheat code, then it should be treated as a separate code (i.e. usable only with sufficient approval for it in particular). If there's a bug that simply makes it possible to enter a cheat code faster that you were already going to enter anyway, then of course it should be used.

Posted: 3/6/2011 6:54 PM

Quote

MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2312)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany

cheat codes are acceptable (...) if it arguably isn't a cheat because the player is expected to use it because it is in the manual

In my Daffy Duck run I didn't use ingame codes that would refill your health or fuel (?) or change your weapons because after entering the "glitch world" you are given a ton of points that you need to enter those codes and it makes the game much easier (usually you get said points by killing enemies). So I decided to not use those codes so it is more impressive - However, maybe changing weapons could make the run more fun to watch...

Youtube • Livestream • Progress 11th TASer of the Decade 2010-2019 !

Showing items [1 - 9] of 9