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Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
- Mixing Wheel and Fire isn't beneficial in the first area. You can't move fast as Wheel kirby and you can't easily pass walls as fire kirby. I think the way I did it, mixing Fire and Jet, is much better. I don't know about the other areas. I'm just now analysing area 3... - I don't know what is meant by railcar here. If it's the one here, I'll look into it... - I improved the way to the second area already by using Jet. - This is if you use the Wheel helper. You could mix for Wheel before the Whale boss and this would also speed up the mine car room after it but you'd have to give up the Fire helper which speeds up this room. I don't see any other disadvantages aside from that so this could easily be faster than my strategy. I'm going to test it soon. @gocha: Thank you for the maps. I actually knew about the maps at Kirby's Rainbow Resort but they're complicated to use since you can't see which rooms are linked together as well as enemies. I found out a new way to pass platforms faster: If the fall-through-platform glitch doesn't work, press L or R (shield) to gain foothold faster. The frames in which Kirby lands on a platform are not relevant if you want to duck to go through the platform, but the frames in which you actually stand on a platform are. It saves 5 frames per application. Nevermind. I thought it was new but upon further investigating the new any% WIP (not public afaik) it turns out pressing 'down' at the right time is even faster. edit: I haven't come around to TASing much lately. But mixing Wheel before Fatty Whale seems definitely faster.
XkyRauh
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Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
MUGG wrote:
I found out a new way to pass platforms faster: If the fall-through-platform glitch doesn't work, press L or R (shield) to gain foothold faster. The frames in which Kirby lands on a platform are not relevant if you want to duck to go through the platform, but the frames in which you actually stand on a platform are. It saves 5 frames per application.
Hahaha--seeing as how HAL Laboratories worked on the Smash Bros. series of games, could this technically be a forerunner to "L cancelling?" :D
Post subject: EDIT: New Milky Way Wishes 100%
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
This post includes some info and a list of movies. There's actually nothing new, I just made this because I felt like it. Everything here was done on the Japanese version of the game. This version allows some glitches that don't work on the US version, most prominently the Jet up/down and fire up/down glitch. If you use Jet with running state in mid-air and press up+down, you will fly diagonally and can reach high places very fast. You can use this to enter ceilings from the side. If you bump against a wall you will fly skywards very fast. If you use fire with running state in mid-air and press up+down, you will zip through the ground at a tremendous speed (~2.5 block heights/frame). If you have the Plasma ability acquired an hold left+right and press "up", you will immediately charge to the maximum. (If you have the Yoyo ability acquired and press up+down+Y in mid-air, Kirby will disappear. If you do this with a helper, the game acts as if the helper never existed.) Spring Breeze Spring Breeze [02:48.78] (mugg) (Updated 7th February 2010) The 100% WIP is being worked on at the moment. Dyna Blade Dyna Blade any% [04:03.55] (OGA) Part of the any% WIP. Dyna Blade 100% not available. Dyna Blade lowscore [04:32.78] (OGA) Gourmet Race Grandprix mode differs from the time-attack mode in that there's food on the course. Food can be used to keep momentum (in #2), but it blocks Kirby's air pellets (in #1). Gourmet Race #1 [19.77] (persona4432) Grandprix Record: 19.82 (mugg) Gourmet Race #2 [30.07] (smns72) Grandprix Record: 30.05 (mugg) (movie file will follow by request) Gourmet Race #3 Jet [06.40] (mugg) Grandprix Record: 06.40 (---) Gourmet Race #3 Parasol [37.37] (persona4432) Gourmet Race #3 Wing [34.77] (persona4432) Gourmet Race #3 Wheel [39.74] (persona4432) Gourmet Race #3 Ninja [39.99] (persona4432) Gourmet Race #3 No-Ability [43.40] (yukihis) Grand Prix highscore 297 [02:14.01] (OGA) Grand Prix no-food [01:08.19] (smns72) Great Cave Offensive Great Cave Offensive any% [03:45.40] (OGA) Part of the any% WIP. Great Cave Offensive 100% [15:11.95] (WaddleDX) 13.xx.xx could be possible. Use jet for the first area, switch to wheelie for Fatty Whale... Metaknight's Revenge Metaknight's Revenge 1Player-Only [09:23.??] (WaddleDX, OGA) A proper 2Player run is not available to my knowledge. I don't know if a 2Player run would be faster than the 1Player run. Milky Way Wishes Milky Way Wishes any% [10.08.35] (WaddleDX) Skyhigh 100% (movie file, unfinished) (OGA)[/url] Milky Way Wishes 100% [11.45.97] (WaddleDX) (2017 edit) The Arena The Arena Parasol [03:28.93] (WaddleDX) The Arena Fighter [03:55.82] (WaddleDX) The Arena Stone [02:48.23] (0xwas) The Arena No-Ability [08:00.18] (WaddleDX) For a complete list, go to http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hosiza/tas.html -> Full-game TAS Kirby Super Star any% WIP (OGA, smns72) smv (Requires 1.43) (14th July 2010) No proper 100% WIP at the moment. I have attempted this run several times but improvements were found all the time and TASing the game is very tedious. The order of the modes would be either of these depending on where you can set up the fall-through-floor glitch for Dyna Blade faster (Gourmet Race or Great Cave Offensive? If it wastes ingame time in Gourmet Race, I don't encourage setting the glitch up there):
  • Spring Breeze -> Gourmet Race -> Great Cave Offensive -> Dyna Blade -> Milky Way Wishes -> Arena
  • Spring Breeze -> Gourmet Race -> Dyna Blade -> Great Cave Offensive -> Milky Way Wishes -> Arena
In order to create the order you need to consider after which modes you reset, the frames you lose for switching between the modes, and that you need to set up the fall-through-platform glitch for Dyna Blade (-> the first room with the platforms). For an explanation of the Fall-through-platform glitch, go to http://bb2.atbb.jp/tas/viewtopic.php?p=92#92 The mechanics of the glitch are not fully understood yet (at least I can't always reproduce the glitch by the criteria of the explanation). There are also a lot more useful glitches, like the cannon glitch or the Heavy-Lobster-skip (?). But OGA is a lot more knowledgeable about these than I am... Useful lua script (X/Y-coordinates/speed, RNG): http://pastebin.com/f431f97c5 About 1.43 vs 1.51: There is more lag on 1.51. Switching to this version is difficult because: - If OGA switched from 1.43 to 1.51, his effort on the any% would be essentially wasted. - Due to the added lag, comparing to older movies from 1.43 becomes difficult. - Due to the added lag, TASing the game in general becomes difficult. The game is already somewhat laggy so having more lag will make lag reduction harder. Personally, I look forward to TASing on bsnes which is the most accurate SNES emulator available. Rather than switching from 1.43 to 1.51, I would like to see a switch from 1.43 to bsnes in the future.
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Nice compilation, I always wanted to see a Gourmet Race high-score, thanks much :D
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Skilled player (1306)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
So im guessing they quit the project now.
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
OGA reappeared recently but progress on any% is very slow. I think it may be finished somewhere within 2011. I'm not working on 100% anymore though.
Post subject: Glitched TAS of milky way wishes
Player (35)
Joined: 5/15/2010
Posts: 15
Glitched TAS of Milky Way Wishes. Yeah, with snes9x 1.51 v6... Me no have the smv anymore by the way, its gone, it does not exist anymore... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaWcepObEnw This took over an 30 minutes to do. The glitch rarely happens in snes9x. The first time was by accident, i wanted to play normally and finish the game at 100%, and it just happened to glitch in Spring Breeze, then i reloaded a state, tryied to make it glitch again for several minutes, did not appen again. So yeah, Thats how rare it is...
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Well, is it an emulator glitch, isn’t it? This topic was discussed around here. -> http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=176820#176820
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
Please try to retrieve the smv as soon as possible. Download "recuva", run it and see if you can find it. I haven't gotten this to work after 2 hours of trying. It would be a shame if we can't get an smv showing the glitch on snes9x, as a proof and for investigation purposes. So yeah, try as soon as possible.
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
I’ve seen the glitch of warp to Marx on 実況プレイ(Japanese Let’s Play). I took these pictures from their videos. I’d not like to link the URLs for fear undesirable lurkers leave unfavorable comments on their videos. 実況プレイ tends to be disliked. @MUGG Sorry, part 2, 3, & 4 were glitched, IIRC.
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
I watched the let's play. Judging by the excessive game lag and by the frequency of those glitches, they most probably used ZSNES. There is nothing of use. However, I'm still interested in DiamondPhoenix' SMV...
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
I talked about the Marx battle glitch with OGA. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8AJXZPS0 (Contains: * Marx_KSS.ips, it modifies the (J) ROM so that the top left enemy in the 3rd room in Cavios becomes Marx (the same place where DiamondPhoenix went). * Marx_KSS.000, a savestate.) The IPS patch changes an enemy in the (J) ROM to Marx, so the final battle is triggered. If DiamondPhoenix' video is really valid, this could only have happened due to some kind of lag glitch... However, we have mixed feelings about this. There is no way we can make more investigations without an SMV doing the glitch on the original ROM. DiamondPhoenix deleting the SMV and not giving more statements makes the whole thing quite questionable, too. Also, what is the deal with the volume going up at 1:42? Probably we won't use this glitch at all, unless we get further reports and information, or possibly an SMV that reproduces the glitch in 1.51 or 1.43 on the unchanged ROM.
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 55
Ok, I relized later on that this has no big significance as it's just input playback encoded to video, but it makes me wonder: Why is there a cursor flickering just when the glitch occurs? A lagging game shouldn't have any effect on the UI/emulator itself.
Active player (263)
Joined: 4/15/2010
Posts: 197
Location: England
MUGG wrote:
I watched the let's play. Judging by the excessive game lag and by the frequency of those glitches, they most probably used ZSNES. There is nothing of use. However, I'm still interested in DiamondPhoenix' SMV...
I don't know a lot about the mechanics of the game, so I can't help you with the glitch, but the "Movie Playback" suggests to me it was on Snes9x 1.43 or 1.51 (or higher). I suggest you research more before continuing with the run. There seems to be multiple videos of it so I'm sure there is some level of consistency that you can reproduce.
Oasiz wrote:
IOk, I relized later on that this has no big significance as it's just input playback encoded to video, but it makes me wonder: Why is there a cursor flickering just when the glitch occurs? A lagging game shouldn't have any effect on the UI/emulator itself.
Perhaps he was using a screen recorder.
Retired smw-96, smw any%
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
The multiple videos you are refering to all use ZSNES, and the Marx glitch is a well known emulation glitch on that emulator. I already tried for hours, others seem to have tried too. The facts I listed make it overly doubtful and questionable. On top of that, a warp glitch like this should be used in a seperate category either way. I don't support the decisions that were made with Chrono Trigger, Earthbound or SML2 at all and I never will. The current any% WIP provides more entertainment than a hypothetical Marx glitch TAS. This is why I think we can safely continue the any% WIP. Progress is extremely slow anyway...
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
Since I'm removing this game's entry from my TASvideos page, I'm dumping info here instead: But since there's nothing worthwhile to dump, I'll just post the most recent WIPs. any% (OGA, smns72, others?) 100% (mugg, helped by OGA) (fixed URL) 1.43 v17 Note that I'm not going to continue on the 100% WIP. Also note that progress on the any% might continue since I've seen smns72 return to IRC a while ago and asking for the latest any% WIP (but I don't know if he plans to continue on it).
Editor, Experienced player (608)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012
MUGG wrote:
any% (OGA, smns72, others?) 100% (mugg, helped by OGA)
Both links lead to the any% WIP. The any% looks amazing though. I'm excited for its eventual completion. EDIT: OK, thanks for fixing it.
Editor, Expert player (2312)
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Posts: 3855
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Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 127
Thanks for posting that. Similar strategies to my musings on a theoretical in-game Arena run. Thoughts: - One advantage to using in-game timer is that you don't need to worry about lag. - Apparently, creating the helper after the boss's health meter loads (so it has less HP) is faster than having Kirby arrive with helper + Hammer (or other) for a stronger final hit. - Interesting that when creating a helper during Heart of Nova, it defaults to Birdon after the fight. Random, or first id in helper array? - Amusing that Kirby auto-spitting when taking heavy damage is sometimes the most efficient way. - Wow, hammer is fast on Lalala. I thought maybe Plasma or Suplex would be used. - Ingenious way to one-round the Computer Virus's Dragon.
Twisted_Eye
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Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
There was a LOT of '...oh that's genius' in that video! Manipulating creating/killing the helper to have the game go through certain steps while not increasing the in-game clock was annoying until I figured out that that was what was going on, but after that it was clever to see the different uses of the trick. The final hit on Marx was an especially neat way to stop the clock as quickly as possible. --oh, creating a helper lowers the boss's health? I didn't realize that happened. Or do you mean that bosses get more HP if there are two players when loaded? I don't know if I ever noticed that before, hm!
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 127
Twisted Eye wrote:
--oh, creating a helper lowers the boss's health? I didn't realize that happened. Or do you mean that bosses get more HP if there are two players when loaded? I don't know if I ever noticed that before, hm!
Some bosses (not all of them) get approximately 20-25% more HP if there are two players present when their HP meter loads. This is most easily noticeable during the Computer Virus battle.
Post subject: "through platform" trick
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
For future reference and to preserve the information, I'm reposting OGA's explanations on the "fall through platform" trick here:
OGA in April 2009 wrote:
TASVideosのアカウントは持ってないし英語も苦手なのでこっちで。 初めましてMUGGさん、床抜け(fall-through-platform glitch)に関して困っているようなので分かりにくいと思いますが説明したいと思います。 事前に「1Frame以上の仕込み」をした状態で落下中、特定のFrameから下入力を開始することで抜けることができます。 特定のFrameは「仕込み」を行ったFrame数により変化します。 なお床抜け(fall-through-platform glitch)を行ったり、普通に床を降りることで「仕込み」はリセットされます。 ■仕込みとは 下入力で「しゃがみモーション」をすることにより可能です。しかし、棒立ち状態のカービィのみ(?)下入力で「仕込み」を行うことができません。 普通なら床を降りる場合カービィなら下入力が5Frame、ウィリーなら15Frame必要です。 最大3Frameまで「仕込み」を行うことができるので、カービィは最短で下入力2Frameで床を降りることができます。 注意点1:4Frame「仕込み」をしてしまうと「仕込み」が0Frameの状態に戻ってしまいます。(しかし5Frame分やれば1Frame「仕込み」をした状態) 注意点2:「仕込み」は死亡時,MAP移動時,ゲームモード移動をしてもリセットされません。なのでMAP1で1Frame、MAP2で2Frameと分けて「仕込み」をすることが可能です。 ■参考用 http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/751422061/fall-through-platform%20glitch1.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/225292443/fall-through-platform%20glitch2.smv 上記smvは148Frame目以外全く同じ入力です。 fall-through-platform glitch1.smvでは下入力で「仕込み」をし、fall-through-platform glitch2では無入力で「仕込み」をしていません。 http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1878808025/MUGG100%25KirbySDX.smv MUGGさんのsmvを借り、27132Frame辺りの床抜けをしてみました。 「仕込み」は27113Frameに行っています。乱数が変わってしまうためこの後は繋げられませんが…。
Back then, gocha translated the explanations to English for me:
OGA wrote:
I have no TASvideos account, and I'm not good at English, so I post my explanations here. Nice to meet you, MUGG. You seem to trouble with the fall-through-platform glitch. It's hard to explain the glitch, I do my best though. Do the "setup" more than 1 frame while falling down, and you can go through a platform from certain frame by pressing the down key. The "certain frame" depends on the amount of the "setup". In addition, the "setup" will be reset when you perform the fall-through-platform glitch, or when going down a platform normally. What The "Setup" Stands For The "setup" can be achieved by pressing the down key and making Kirby (or his co.) squatting down. However, only stock-still standing Kirby (apparently, I'm not sure) cannot achieve the "setup" by pressing the down key. When you go down a platform, you usually need to press the down key for 5 frames for Kirby, or for 15 frames for Wheelie. You can do the "setup" beforehand for 3 frames at the maximum. Therefore, if you do the best, Kirby will go down a platform in 2 frames. Attention #1: When you do the "setup" for 4 frames, it becomes 0 (when you do it for 5 frames, it becomes 1). Attention #2: The "setup" will NOT be reset by Kirby's death, map selection, or other screen transitions. Therefore, you can prepare the "setup" for the current room, in the previous room. Examples http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/751422061/fall-through-platform%20glitch1.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/225292443/fall-through-platform%20glitch2.smv The movies above are almost identical. The only difference is the input at frame #148. The movie #1 performs the "setup" at the frame, but the movie #2 doens't. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1878808025/MUGG100%25KirbySDX.smv This is a movie rerecorded from your movie. It performs the glitch at around frame 27132. The "setup" is done at frame 27113. No more can be concatenated because of randomness, sadly...
Patashu
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My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Nice glitchfest video you posted there Patashu. There's a bug on the last level (Halfmoon) when the air lifts you, if you use Parasol, you can fly from standing on the ground (by just pressing Up, IIRC) and when you reach the ceiling, the game think you reached the floor and can start walking. I suppose is not your video, but I though I was going to see this bug included.
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