My first TAS run. I felt like doing it since I haven't yet seen a full run on Impossible with glitch abuse. The beginning is a bit unoptimized since I was still learning how these TAS runs worked. But it turned out better later, and it's pretty satisfying to me for a first TAS.
The main reason the game is beaten so fast despite being on Impossible is a glitch that allows you to reload your "ghost savefile": unlike the other levels, pressing R on Impossible sends you straight to the Select File screen, but the game takes a while to erase your previous run (the time seems to be longer if you have all 3 savefiles), so pressing A sends you straight back to your file but in the initial section. Given that, the Warp Route works even on Impossible, just in a different way (and with less skipping). Since the Room of Divine Transportation is only seen once in this run, the only proof of that is me being able to go to the Minecart section straight after Dracula.
feos: This movie loses too much time to the existing WIP in the rooms where they had similar conditions to run through. Visible loses included. I can not accept a movie that does not even match the existing records.
Now about the concept. This run plays on Impossible, which is the hardest difficulty. It has almost no checkpoints and prevents their abuse. It allows Game Over glitch in different conditions than the regular difficulty run, and it can skip different rooms than that. So both would be interesting to watch, which means both are expected to be submitted and will most likely be well received.
Glitchiness. I can not consider Game Over invulnerability and room skips game breaking glitches. They are just major, not game breaking. So they all should be allowed for Any% and Impossible branches. For the people who are distracted by those glitches' look, there must also be a 100% run, picking all secret items and avoiding warps and major glitches (namely, Game Over abuse and room skipping).
This run is rejected even though it was very well received, proving the branch concept.
I didn't see anything too bad with this run. It looks fairly optimized and the missed shots didn't bother me too much. Plus this game is really interesting with all the classic video game references. I'm voting Yes.
I haven't played the game, but does the movie need to run to the credits, or can it end input at the last hit on the boss so there aren't a bunch of (presumably) empty frames at the end of the movie?
I haven't played the game, but does the movie need to run to the credits, or can it end input at the last hit on the boss so there aren't a bunch of (presumably) empty frames at the end of the movie?
I can answer that one. You see the end of the credits where you end up under this Delicious Fruit Tree, and one of the fruits falls on you? It will kill you. Yes, in the endgame credits.
That said, I really like this run but I would appreciate some explanations of what on earth is going on in there. How exactly do you manage to skip half the bosses, or fly around on those hawk things that I think are supposed to kill you, stuff like that.
That said, I really like this run but I would appreciate some explanations of what on earth is going on in there. How exactly do you manage to skip half the bosses, or fly around on those hawk things that I think are supposed to kill you, stuff like that.
First for Kraidgief, apparently the warp between the Kraidgief's lair and the world before him kind of forces you to regain movement even though you're dead, so you can't even suicide with Q, but can do everything else without risk of dying (the same happens at the Gradius part when you purposefully collide with a wall but leave bullets that'll kill the last security drone while you're dead, making you regain movement. This however, wears off once you reach the next world (the Factory or the Elevator) but brings the Game Over text, until you reach the next world, or F2 out.
About the warps, some platforms on Tourian seem to warp you when they stack and touch the ground with you there, I really don't know exactly how it works. Although I also can't find a logic on why they warp you to where they did, the same platforms always warp you to the same places, which is why this glitch is also abused in Any% human speedruns (eg. TenShots' 18:34 speedrun on Hard). I found a similar thing on Haggar's room, that the contact with the block right when it's gonna vanish causes you to teleport elsewhere, which gave me the chance to skip both the bar things and the fake error screen and save a few time.
As for the KKK boss: within the depths of the game, Tourian, the Factory and where the KKK boss fight takes place are the very same worlds. And in IWBTG instead of creating the bosses or other elements right when the fight is gonna take place, instead they're always preloaded but hidden in inaccessible places, and later are teleported to their places once they're "needed": ex1 on Kgief's world which is the same world Tetris take place; ex2 on post Birdo's world, which is the same world Dracula is in). As you can see in ex2, the Dracula's red orb is also present there, but that area can't be accessed even with glitches (I made it to there using the Infinite Jumps cheat code), so it has no use for us.
But back to the KKK boss, even though you can access the red orb with the platform glitch, you have no way to return, making it only abusable in two ways: 1. the one in the Medium TAS run, which takes advantage of the lack of savefile to take warp back without the game forgetting the beaten bosses (I won't go deep into this as it's from "another category" inaccessible for Impossible), 2. reloading in same way as Medium but being taken back to the savefiles screen which only happens on Impossible, but the game takes a while to erase the "beaten bosses data" (and actually never erases the game time and death counts unless you F2 out, which explains why GachiM's legit and streamed clear on Impossible had 3 deaths at the end), so quickly starting a new run on Impossible by pressing A (you have about 1.5 seconds if you have already the 3 slots used) will make you continue the same run, and since you got the red orbs from Kraidgief, Mother Brain and KKK, they count as beaten and you can just proceed upwards to beat Tyson, Birdo and Dracula and go straight to the minecart part.
For the halks, similarly to the fish in the minecart section and the medusa heads in Dracula's castle (although these freeze you), they don't kill you on their own, but push you in awkward and rather unpredictable ways (which is the main difference of them compared to the fish or medusa heads), so they're annoying to take advantage as in TASing, but is almost an obligation to deal with them as they're crucial to save several seconds. So you have to keep moving randomly around them using savestates and hoping they'll push you conveniently.
Could the glitch at 20 seconds into this video save time on the Castlevania section?
http://www.twitch.tv/tenshotstv/c/2587554
EDIT: Maybe it's not a glitch and just platform momentum physics.
EDIT 2: Voted yes, nice glitchhunting and TAS. It amuses me greatly you can die in Impossible and still finish.
This is one of the most entertaining movies I have seen on this website. Maybe it's the nostalgia goggles and the NES/SNES sprites, but having never played this game I have to say that this movie is very entertaining. I understand that IWTBTG is a notoriously hard game, and it's hard for the sake of being hard, but this move was extremely amusing.
That said, the few sections where "GAME OVER" appeared over the front of the screen really detracted from everything. I'm not really a huge proponent of glitching your way to success, especially if a glitch ruins the entertainment of a game. That said, this glitch is extremely annoying, and I wish it weren't present, but it is what it is. It only detracts from the total experience a little bit, and that little bit doesn't nearly match up to the positives, so this is a definitive yes vote!
EDIT: very few movies have actually made me laugh out loud, but this movie is one. Although it is mostly due to game choice, I have to consider that in my judging of this movie. DEFINITELY yes. :D
Couldn't stand the game over text, so I'll vote no. Other then that it looked fine. I'd definitely vote yes for a play through that avoids the glitches that cause the Game Over prompts though.
The branch for this movie seems to be "Glitched, Impossible". But what would be considered the glitched run features? Room skips? Death+invincibility? Both? What would any% run be allowed to do?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Couldn't stand the game over text, so I'll vote no. Other then that it looked fine. I'd definitely vote yes for a play through that avoids the glitches that cause the Game Over prompts though.
It disappears after 4 minutes and only makes a brief reappearance. It was not too distracting for my tastes.
Also, couldn't this movie end a few seconds earlier? I know you have to dodge the delicious fruit at the end, but it looks like you do so only at the last moment. I've only seen runs of this game on YouTube, but i was under the impression that you regain control of the character sooner than what we see here.
Otherwise, great work!
The branch for this movie seems to be "Glitched, Impossible". But what would be considered the glitched run features? Room skips? Death+invincibility? Both? What would any% run be allowed to do?
Both. Pressing K at Kraidgief (pretty much useless given the suicide) and E+N+D at the final elevator are banned, though. This run is actually a bit hard to categorize under the RTA rules, as its on the boundaries of Any% and Warpless, given that where they warp I use a trick to reload a save on Impossible (while their rules apply for Hard), which technically isn't a warp, though it subjectively is. Though I'd consider more of a Any% run because of the platform warp in Tourian that is also banned in Warpless.
Bobo the King wrote:
Also, couldn't this movie end a few seconds earlier? I know you have to dodge the delicious fruit at the end, but it looks like you do so only at the last moment. I've only seen runs of this game on YouTube, but i was under the impression that you regain control of the character sooner than what we see here.
Otherwise, great work!
Yeah it could. I actually hadn't thought of that, and I fast forwarded through the whole credits and only dodged at the last moments at the impression the movie would only end at the credit's end (I actually only stopped the movie recording at the last frame of the credits). That can be fixed by the judges or by myself if it's necessary before in case it's gonna published, if necessary, though.
The branch for this movie seems to be "Glitched, Impossible". But what would be considered the glitched run features? Room skips? Death+invincibility? Both? What would any% run be allowed to do?
Also, couldn't this movie end a few seconds earlier? I know you have to dodge the delicious fruit at the end, but it looks like you do so only at the last moment. I've only seen runs of this game on YouTube, but i was under the impression that you regain control of the character sooner than what we see here.
Subjectively the TAS is as fast as it takes to kill The Guy, so this wouldn't change anything.
Frames lost in rooms this movie played through in the same conditions as Kurikinton's WIP:
The same tendency was noted for later levels. For example, the birds manipulation in GnG level is WAY worse. The author says later levels were optimized better, but it seems frame comparison was not done at all, and frames were lost in all possible places of level 1 at least. If someone wants to object my claim, please provide the same comparison for later levels. Otherwise, this movie is considered too sloppy for acceptance.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Thanks for the comparison. I can't really object it because the beginning level was mostly done with 12% framerate instead of frame-by-frame slowdown, which is something I only got used to later. And by "later levels were optimized better" I was comparing to the frame precision of my own run (as in, comparing the initial section to the latter ones). And the Mother Brain part was slow because I wasn't used to the frame-machinegunning and used my controller's turbo instead. But yeah, that was the suboptimization I was talking about which would be a good reason the refuse this run. Either way I'm okay, and possibly in the future I might come with a Glitchless run on Impossible with more polished frames. :)
Yes, I'd love to see an improved version of the Impossible run. The thing is, the more you try to optimize scenes, the newer tricks you find, and improve in geometric progression.
But I'd still want to figure the rules for possible TAS branches. If Glitched version uses invincibility, any% must avoid it. Skipping rooms will be different in them, so it may be allowed for both. Checkpoint abuse is free for all. What about Warps? I'd allow them as well. That can leave a room for a run beating all rooms.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Sure, it likely will be way better than this one. In fact, I learned a lot with this run, for being my first one.
Under the RTA rules, Any% is the highest category which includes all sorts of allowed glitches, including the invincibility ones. The warps are forbidden from Warpless onwards, but suicides for invincibility are still allowed. But warpless skipping doesn't seem forbidden at all, given without warps you can nearly skip anything. The only ones I remember that can skipped without glitches are this one and the tunnel next to it: you just go back to the Room of Transportation and jump in Kraidgief's portrait, given you'd already have beaten him at that point.
Hmm, then probably we may skip "Glitched" in the branches at all, using no branch for the fastest one, "Impossible" for a run like yours, and "All rooms" for glitchless warpless.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Well, it's not exactly "All rooms" because you'd still not use the intended path when going to the Factory the second time.
Also, there's a 25:42.50 run on Youtube that seems even more optimized than Kurikuton's one, and it follows the Japanese speedrunning rules: basically, it's the same as RTA's Warpless, but without Kraidgief invicibility/skip.
With regards to categories, due to how many (realtime) runs I've seen of this game that use the "game over" glitch, I'd personally vastly prefer one of the more restricted categories to ban this trick. The feedback I'm seeing here of people who did not like the game-over invincibility only reinforces my belief. I personally don't mind the trick, but it's been so long since I've seen a run that doesn't use it. Perhaps this is all the more reason to have a category possible here that doesn't use that trick.
I can't speak in an educated manner about every other glitch possible in this game and whether it should be allowed in a restricted category. The game has long been well-known for its glitches and occasional instability (hence the fake error message room). If there was a way to know every minor glitch that people were aware of when the final version of the game came out, that'd be a clear and non-arbitrary goal for a "glitchless" or "no major glitches" or "no major skips" run.
Regardless of what categorization the IWBTG fancommunity uses, within the context of TASvideos any glitch is fair game, even if it shows a 'game over' screen for awhile. Heck, we have runs that show nothing but garbage screens for 20-30 seconds and then suddenly warp to the endgame sequence for no discernible reason.
Under the RTA rules, Any% is the highest category which includes all sorts of allowed glitches, including the invincibility ones.
Under our rules, game breaking glitches are only allowed in a glitched branch, any% can't use them. So if skips and game over abuse are considered game breaking, then any% should avoid both.
Just describe what would be needed for a full competion kind of run.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
"Glitchless 100%"? Well, same as the last video I linked except you wouldn't glitch Gradius, and would get all secret items. Something like this run unassisted by Keteru. Except he doesn't use the Factory shortcut. But it's a 100% completion and glitchless.
The same tendency was noted for later levels. For example, the birds manipulation in GnG level is WAY worse. The author says later levels were optimized better, but it seems frame comparison was not done at all, and frames were lost in all possible places of level 1 at least. If someone wants to object my claim, please provide the same comparison for later levels. Otherwise, this movie is considered too sloppy for acceptance.
