Topic by FatRatKnight

Posted: 10/13/2011 10:56 AM
(Edited: 11/25/2011 11:03 PM)

Post subject: Consolation Team Contest (Closed)

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

The contest is closed. My habits, lacking participation, and technical difficulties were the main offenders. I want to see the Sorcerer's Maze TAS continue, regardless of what happened here, however. Since the game selected for Dream Team Contest 4 didn't pan out for many of the teams, I am here to initiate a new contest. I really want to see it work out this year, so here I am bringing up a new contest. I would like to show just how poorly the audience chose our game by taking the least voted game. (The fact it's my favorite choice out of that poll probably biased this decision) Game: Sorcerer's Maze, (U) version, for the Playstation. Emulator: PSXjin v2.0.2 CD-ROM (from movie file): SLUS01495 Other settings: Empty or no memory cards. (Probably doesn't matter, but may as well set it in stone.) In-game options: Hard mode is mandatory. Paddle speed is up to your choice. You will play in 1 Player mode. You are to work on each of the worlds in order: 2 -> 4 -> 1 -> 3 -> 5 -> 6 You will have two free weeks to get yourselves settled in, and to get the game set up properly on your computer, as well as time to get familiar with its mechanics. After that, each world is due for submissions every week, and I will post the "best" submissions of each world here, depending on frame count and MP. These submissions are free to be used by any team for the later weeks. Points are to be assigned for each world TASed, to be later determined how exactly to assign these points. For now, be happy for submitting in each week. Late joiners are always welcome. We'll still put you up into the scoreboard! ~~Goal, primary: Percent of game completed (Players, try to at least beat all the stages. Please?) Goal, secondary: Length of input file, the faster the better.~~ The contest has already started, as I already have revealed the game to TAS. So organize yourselves on the spot and start TASing! Submissions due: Sunday, November 13, 22:00 UTC Submissions due: All times are 22:00 UTC World _2 - ~~Monday November 7th~~ = lapogne36 | DarkKobold (more of a test) World _4 - ~~Monday November 21st~~ lapogne36 World _1 - ~~Monday November 28th~~ World _3 - ~~Monday December 5th~~ World _5 - ~~Monday December 12th~~ World _6 - ~~Monday December 19th~~ World _7 - ~~Monday December 26th~~ World _8 - ~~Monday January 2th~~ World _9 - ~~Monday January 9th~~ World 10 - ~~Monday January 16th~~ (Final submission, unless I'm missing somthing) Submit by Private Message to FatRatKnight (currently under technical issues... Hope to resolve soon) Teams are to be assigned free-for-all. Post you wish to participate, and anyone can say they join you. Maximum team size of 4. You can't refuse any new members into your team, take this into consideration. If there are multiple tiny teams of 1 for a few days, I'll merge you into other teams however I feel like. There are no time restrictions on when a team can be formed, other than the final submission due date. For obvious reason, I suggest earlier rather than later. Use whatever methods are available to produce the perfect TAS! Let's see this breakout-style game broken! Current players: DarkKobold lapogne36 FatRatKnight There's was room for more A bit spontaneous and chaotic, sure. But that's the point. Still subject to further changes, though, preferably for the better.

Posted: 10/13/2011 4:52 PM

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BadPotato

Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec

I just made some play around and finished the first world and there several good point that I like: -Some of the item are crazy -Lot of place for Lua script -The speed of the ball doesn't seem to have any limit -Different route possible/item management (ex: take more time to finish the level for better combo and then buy better item on next level) -Transition between level are quick enough -There aren't too many world to complete Now, about the contest maybe people didn't play the previous DTC, because they felt short in time and if there aren't any serious progress after half the time allowed, they might just drop out. What about expanding the time until christmas or around it?

Posted: 10/13/2011 5:53 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

BadPotato wrote:

Now, about the contest maybe people didn't play the previous DTC, because they felt short in time and if there aren't any serious progress after half the time allowed, they might just drop out. What about expanding the time until the christmas or around it?

Well, I do provide an extra week beyond the usual DTC time. You're asking for more than an extra month. I am a bit hesitant in providing that much extra time. It's a long, long wait to finally get the teams to wrap up their runs. However, this contest is spontaneously created. And the extra time would help to minimize any feelings of stress. I'll wait for further opinions. The general lack of start-up time I've given to this contest shouldn't mean everything is locked in place. If everyone would prefer some adjustments being made, I'll go work something out.

Posted: 10/13/2011 8:12 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

You sir, will directly and indirectly come up with everything to not work on The Guardian Legend. Good day.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 10/14/2011 1:07 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

AngerFist wrote:

You sir, will directly and indirectly come up with everything to not work on The Guardian Legend. Good day.

As a host to this contest, and not an actual participant, this means I have very little to do. I still have plenty of time to work on TGL. Don't worry, I'll be making progress soon.

Posted: 10/14/2011 3:31 AM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

So, has anyone checked if this game is hexable? It would be cool to do this as a ten week contest, where teams accumulate points instead of one final movie. Everyone takes the best section at the end of the week, and builds on that? EDIT: Regardless, I'm in. This will be an awesome game to TAS.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 10/14/2011 4:28 AM

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Brandon

He/Him

Editor, Player (190)

Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 913
Location: Tennessee

Somewhat interested, but can't commit right now. I think the game choice is fitting, due to the whole Steven Jobs having a hand in making Breakout thing. It'd also be really awesome if it were in fact hexable. Maybe I could sign up and participate only on the weeks I am available to?

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 10/15/2011 8:37 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Brandon wrote:

Somewhat interested, but can't commit right now. I think the game choice is fitting, due to the whole Steven Jobs having a hand in making Breakout thing. It'd also be really awesome if it were in fact hexable. Maybe I could sign up and participate only on the weeks I am available to?

You may join whenever you are ready. I'll allow you to join in week increments if you prefer. You are not required to participate since day one. On a side note, I'll probably be joining DarkKobold myself in an attempt to get things rolling, to show things are happening here, if no one else dares show up. Yes, I'm the contest creator here, but does that mean I should automatically invalidate myself? Besides, we were planning on working together on this anyway, but I then decided to turn it into a contest form. EDIT: AngerFist, I will divide my time between this and TGL if it comes to that. Don't worry.

Posted: 10/17/2011 3:42 PM

Post subject: Hey, DarkKobold! You there?

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Looks pretty barren so far, more devoid of activity than I'd like. As such, I'm joining with DarkKobold. If I didn't just suddenly spring this contest up, we would have worked together on this game anyway. Also, the presence of this contest greatly encourages us to post regular weekly updates. Hopefully with an encode to go with it. If that doesn't bring people in later weeks, what will? The contest will remain open throughout, even if no one else joins for the first ten weeks. Who knows, maybe someone will find something we miss! As for arbitrary points, I've thought of one way to handle it: Adding points, dependent on participant teams, linear model: The first place team of each week will get points equal to the number of participating teams that week. The second place team will get that much minus 1. Third place gets the first place amount minus 2. And so on, where the last place team gets 1 point.

Posted: 10/17/2011 4:49 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

FatRatKnight - perhaps you and I can compete - share lua scripts, ram addresses, information, publication, etc - but we compete on each set of levels. Might keep things interesting - and force us to create new ideas for each level, instead of just relying on each other.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 10/17/2011 5:20 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

It's an idea. At least there will be some form of competition here, even if no one else shows up. A friendly competition with shared information. We can begin TASing anytime. Just remember those due dates I set up.

Posted: 10/17/2011 7:11 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

I am interested by this game and this contest. But I am not sure that start with world 1 is the best choice, since you will not be able to purchase an useful item in levels 1-3 AND 1-4 , so it will cost some time (since these levels can't release any useful item).

Posted: 10/18/2011 12:24 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

lapogne36 wrote:

[...] I am not sure that start with world 1 is the best choice, since you will not be able to purchase an useful item in levels 1-3 AND 1-4 , so it will cost some time (since these levels can't release any useful item).

Got any suggestions on which world to start in where we are not in as significant a disadvantage due to lack of MP? I need to fix an order to do the worlds so we can have comparisons week by week. Should one team begin at World 1 and another begin at World 3, it will be impossible to judge who's the "winner" here without forcing both teams to complete the first six worlds in one massive lump. And that massive lump of "emptiness" in the meantime while waiting for those six worlds route from each of the teams is undesirable. Regardless. You've come forward to point out a possible flaw in my enforced route. I'll have to ask for research to decide whether to make changes, as coming up with a "better" route on the spot will only lead to more complications.

Posted: 10/19/2011 9:40 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

The research I ask for can come from any source, even myself. I've taken a look and I note that World 2 might actually be a better starting choice, especially since its first stage nets you a rather lofty sum of MP somehow. The world lends itself pretty decently to low MP usage in general, so perhaps I should change the route to 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6. ... And this decision affects no one other than myself and DarkKobold at the moment. Regardless, before I make the changes, I want to first see whether there is an outcry of the fact that I may change the route.

Posted: 10/19/2011 6:03 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

I think that world 2 is a really bad starting choice since (in my opinion) there is a lot of levels that will need MP and these levels don't give a good amount of them. World 4 seems to be perfect to start, because 7 or 8 of these levels already have useful items to complete them fast (giant ball, multi-ball, double ball, ...)

Posted: 10/19/2011 9:25 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Good items or not, you need to first reach them. 4-1 does have the split power, but it requires breaking an intervening block to reach it first. 4-2 I managed to reach the split quickly in a test (in a difficult hard-to-reach corner), but waiting for the ball to come back took a while. I can point out a few other problems, but under TAS conditions, they might be moot anyway. On the other hand, World 2 also has its share of problems. I should not be blind to those just because it gave a good first impression. But even if we find the "magic" order of worlds to do, that doesn't mean we suddenly have all the MP we need for every stage. Some of the ones that lack any serious power-up will have to be done without using MP regardless, and going through some world with a fair stock of MP coming in won't change things. Anyway, part of my arguments here does get biased due to the fact I have to do things myself, only to have someone speak up after I start going in the wrong direction despite having asked for a bit of assistance earlier. Then again, people tend to speak where there are noticeable incorrect answers rather than no visible answers. The incorrect answer is easily seen, while the lack of any answers are, well... Nothing to see, so no one cares as they see nothing. I hope you can understand some of my irritation, but I do not know what you see. Neither do you know what exact details I'm looking for, just the general stuff, and it only becomes clear when I've already made a mistake. In any case, a decision does need to be made relatively swiftly, so that more time can be set aside for TASing the right path (or reschedule the due dates...?). So far, it's 2 -> 4, or 4 -> 2, followed by 1 -> 3 -> 5 -> 6. I'm still leaning toward 2 first, due to my earlier tests (and my current irritated mood. That's very likely to disappear over time, however). It's just a slight lean, though, and I'll need a little time to clear my thoughts before I make my decision. Feel free to provide some more convincing, though. I certainly won't mind a summary (in your view or anyone else wishing to chime in) of the 9 non-boss levels in worlds 2 and 4. Nothing intricate, we probably won't have the time for that. Besides, we probably won't know the perfect path between the worlds without first... You know, actually TASing the game through, so no need to perfect our knowledge of the route immediately.

Posted: 10/20/2011 12:56 AM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

I think the reason for so much MP coming out of level 2-1 is due to the number of power ups. I was planning on testing that tonight.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 10/20/2011 4:22 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

I suggest we start with world 2, so we will not spending more time with the route planning.

DarkKobold wrote:

I think the reason for so much MP coming out of level 2-1 is due to the number of power ups. I was planning on testing that tonight.

address : 0011300C Basically, in a TAS, the number of MP you win is close to the number of "crystals" you must destroy (since you always make combos in a TAS).

Posted: 10/21/2011 8:56 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Then world 2, it is. We'll probably have a decent run to watch no matter how we do things. I've already made adjustments to the first post. I suppose it's time to test World 2 for a bit, then.

Posted: 10/25/2011 1:28 AM
(Edited: 10/29/2011 3:35 PM)

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Starting at address 0x00115BE4, there is an array containing stats of each ball. Add some multiple of 0xAC to get whatever ball you want to look at. I believe there is 100 of them. A list of offsets. Each piece of data takes up 2 or 4 bytes, as noted by the ,2u or ,4u after the offset. The u being unsigned, s being signed, and ? being either signed or unsigned (I haven't rightly identified which). x is used when it is best viewed in hexadecimal form

00115BE4 [size=0xAC][count=100]  Ball array
+00,2x Does ball exist? Some sort of identifier?
+02,2x Bit-packed:
  0x0001 - Allowed to hit paddle?  0 = No (still going up from paddle hit)  1 = Yes
  0x0004 - Released from paddle?  0 = Stuck to paddle  1 = Flying free
+04,2? Ball power-up (giant, fire)
+06,2s Angle (precise to 4096)
+08,2? Fire ball related.
+0A,2s Is it fire ball?  -1 = No  0 = Yes
+0C,2? Giant ball related.
+0E
+10,4? X-pos
+14,4? Y-pos
+18
+1A
+1C
+1E
+20,2s Angle (2)
+22,2u Speed
+24,4? X-pos (2)
+28,4? Y-pos (2)
+2C,4s X-vel
+30,4s Y-vel
+34,2s Angle (3)
+36,2u Speed (2)
+38,4? X-pos (3)
+3C,4? Y-pos (3)
+40
+42
+44
+46
+48,4? X-pos (4, halfstep?)
+4C,4? Y-pos (4, halfstep?)
+50,4u X-vel, absolute value?
+54,4u Y-vel, absolute value?
+58
+5A
+5C
+5E
+60
+62
+64
+66
+68
+6A
+6C
+6E
+70
+72
+74,2u X-pixel
+76,2u Y-pixel
+78,2u X-pixel: Trail1
+7A,2u Y-pixel: Trail1
+7C,2u X-pixel: Trail2
+7E,2u Y-pixel: Trail2
+80,2u X-pixel: Trail3
+82,2u Y-pixel: Trail3
+84,2u X-pixel: Trail4
+86,2u Y-pixel: Trail4
+88,2u X-pixel: Trail5
+8A,2u Y-pixel: Trail5
+8C,2u X-pixel: Trail6
+8E,2u Y-pixel: Trail6
+90,2u X-pixel: Trail7
+92,2u Y-pixel: Trail7
+94,2u X-pixel: Trail8
+96,2u Y-pixel: Trail8
+98,2u Speed (used only for sticky ball or pre-launch)
+9A,2s Angle (used only for sticky ball or pre-launch)
+9C,2u Timer for sticky ball (or pre-launch)
+9E,2s Countdown timer?
+A0,2? Related to ball speed? Incremented by timer at +9E
+A2,2x Which wall was last hit?
+A4
+A6
+A8
+AA

Posted: 10/25/2011 5:40 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

+00,2? Used ball or not
+02,2? Alter if the last thing the ball hit was you or a ceiling
+04,2? Ball physical power-up (giant ball, fire ball)
+06,2u Angle
+08,2? A different value with a fire ball
+0A,2u Fire ball or not
+0C,2? Some variations if it's a giant ball

+9C,2s Countdown timer to throw the ball
+9E,2s Countdown timer
+A0,2s Increase by 29 (1D) each time +9E reach 0 (it seems it increase the ball velocity)
+A2,2? Last wall the ball hit (up, left or right)

Address from 0x0011322C to 0x00113280 seems to contain some useful informations like the number of balls or the number of crystals to destroy

Posted: 10/25/2011 5:40 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

I created an auto-bot to play the game - it currently works well for well for the big-ball levels and for multi-ball levels. However, I think for botting this game in single ball levels, I'd need to create a ball-tracking paddle, that simply randomly selects one of the 6 possible ball-paddle interactions. As far as I can tell, these are the 6 different interactions that can occur: 1. Bounce Normal- Anywhere from sides to the middle, ball will bounce away from the direction it came. 2. Bounce back - Occurs 1/4 from the edge of the paddle which the ball is coming, ball will return the same direction it came from. 3/4. Bounce Left/Right extreme diagonal - ball will hit the edge, and will have an angle that is more X than Y, and go the direction of the paddle side it hit. 5/6. Moving Left/Right - ball will accelerate, and go an angle that is more X than Y. Ball will go direction the paddle is moving. Also, I realized, if this game is totally hexable, level by level, then world order won't matter initially - It can easily be adjusted later to ensure that the proper amount of MP is available. I think I'll work on a script that allows for auto-hexing levels.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 10/25/2011 6:18 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

In fact, there is 4 more possible ball-paddle interactions : 7/8/9. Bounce Left/Right extreme diagonal while moving same direction that the ball at slow speed - If the ball is moving left, you will get 2 new angles with the Left extreme diagonal and 1 with the Right extreme diagonal. 10. Bounce Left/Right extreme diagonal while moving opposite direction that the ball at slow speed - If the ball is moving left, you will get the new angle with the Left extreme diagonal.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:32 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

lapogne36 wrote:

In fact, there is 4 more possible ball-paddle interactions : 7/8/9. Bounce Left/Right extreme diagonal while moving same direction that the ball at slow speed - If the ball is moving left, you will get 2 new angles with the Left extreme diagonal and 1 with the Right extreme diagonal. 10. Bounce Left/Right extreme diagonal while moving opposite direction that the ball at slow speed - If the ball is moving left, you will get the new angle with the Left extreme diagonal.

The paddle is moving slow or the ball is moving slow? Also, this makes a random+tracking bot hellishly more difficult.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 10/25/2011 10:56 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1278)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France

The paddle is moving slow.