Finally! After several days of attempting Sonic the Hedgehog 2, only to wind up with desync problems (this happened to me several times), I now bring you my next version of the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Speed-Run! Yay!
Now, before you rush for the forum to vote 'No', I implore you to watch the movie: this one is FAR better than the first two i've submitted, and it's more than obvious that all the runs that I made over the few days (and, which weren't submitted, thanks to the aforementioned desync problems) were improving my skill and knowledge of each particular Zone. So, it comes around to an incredible show, and Sonic 2 fans will surely delight in the stunts that I was able to pull off with that super-nifty slow-motion.
There were a few things that I find wrong with the movie, however. Though most of the maneuvers are flawless, there are points in the game where the game's time conflicts with where I want to go. In this case, platforms are generally in different places than they were, etc., though this also applies in an opposite sense, with a platform being in a certain place, etc.
The next problem was Metropolis Zone. It's comprised of THREE zones, not the normal two. This makes for tedious gameplay, making it difficult to improve. The only way I could find to possibly shave seconds off my time was to make use of Tails to get the screws to move faster.
Speaking of which, I wasn't able to use Tails as much to assist as I could in the previous submission. I'll see if I can't work on that.
But, anyways, here it is. Hope you enjoy it!
Update: Just to throw this stuff in here, there were several parts that made beating 'records' impossible. For example, in Oil Ocean Zone, the record-beater goes under the oil to reach places previously unaccessible, and thusly, beating the levels in a much shorter time than going through the maze above. I spent several hours trying to achieve this trick as well with a previous version, but apparently, the console version has advantages over the version I picked up. Also, on Chemical Plant 1, there's a non-existant door leading to the end of the level quicker. Either i've missed it, or it's not in my version, but I followed the movie to the utmost detail. Oh well.
Bisqwit: Rejecting this submission, because it can apparently
be done better.
There were a few things that I find wrong with the movie, however.
How come you submit the movie if you don't find it totaly flawless? The chance is that someone else will notice and get unsatisfied with your result. I haven't watched this yet because I don't have the time right now. I will watch later though. I just had to ask you that question.
You're getting closer.
Did you read this message?
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337&start=60
It applies to your previous submission, but it's good info anyway. If you don't beat those times (played by people without savestates and slowdown), your run has a somewhere between an extremely small to no chance of being published.
From the first level counting onward, you are 1, 3, 17, 25, 6, 15, -3, 23, 12, 8, 5, 27, 52 (!), 45 (!), 7, -16, -17, 10, and 23 seconds slower. (minus is where you are faster.)
Ouch, I just noticed you used 900 measly rerecords. It's obvious from the number alone you didn't try which was was the fastest in every instance.
Look at this video:
http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=156
This is the quality people are expecting.
That video used 110,000 rerecords.
Try much, much harder.
Alright, Truncated. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this just has to be said:
Those records on the website mean absolutely nothing to me. Sure, they're fast, but you haven't been spending the last three days playing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 every waking hour to try to improve oneself. I've watched the movies more than once, I know exactly how they use all those shortcuts and what-not, but there are alot of instances where my version of the game conflicts with their speed-runs.
For example, Chemical Plant 1: there's supposed to be a small little door that opens up and leads to the area where normally I run under the little blue beads that hop up from the floor. In MY version of the game, it's non-existant for some reason, or I can't seem to find it (oddly, though, i've looked in the same place: apparently someone took it out, or something).
Another, in Oil Ocean Zone, people make awesome times by being able to rush under the oil and get through to parts previous unaccessible without risking life or limb. I must've spent two or three hours on the old version that desynced trying to get under the oil and follow that same time. Sure, the time's aren't flawless, but I do break several of the records, and here's the more important note:
No-one from Sonic Center has posted their movies, nor a speed-run, here on this website!
This had pissed me off from day one. I understand that these movies are fast: wonderful, but there are also conflicts with my version of the game and theirs. I'm just trying to beat it as fast as I can, and make it look as good as I can. As far as i'm concerned, this record is unbeatable. And when this submission gets accepted, i'm going to beat my unbeatable record. Got it? Good.
For now, why don't you just act like there /are/ no records. It'll be a hell of alot more impressive.
Now for something completely different!
KITTIES! Aw. They're so cute!
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
M.I.:
Don't take it personally. When you come here, that's the sort of criticism you should expect. Harsh, demanding, and maybe a little unfeeling. However, none of it is meant personally... at least not until you start throwing hissy fits and start demanding, "You will watch this and you will like it!" much like what you just did. Your attitude up until this point was commendable.
That being said, don't be afraid to abuse save states, and make multiple ones so you can go back and correct errors you didn't catch at first. And if you wish to explain yourself, do so calmly, not rashly.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I never said this. All I was saying with what I had said, was that i'm extremely confident that this is the one that'll be published. I may be wrong, but nothing will strike down my confidence at this point. I've come too far to be pushed back down by people throwing 'records' at me.
And on another note, i'm calm. I have been calm. I always will be calm. All i'm saying is that i've been working hard, and I appreciate the tips/hints/criticism, and it has all been used up to this point. All i'm asking is someone to watch the movie without being biased. The records on Sonic Center have NOT been accepted here as submissions, and therefore, should not be used against me in the judging process.
Sure, they're fast, and it'd be in my best interest to 'meet or beat' them, but i'm trying to get my foot in the door here. I do expect this sort of criticism: but none of the criticism that i've seen in other topics/submissions have anything to do with records from other websites. When you understand where i'm coming from, you'll understand why i'm so upset.
On another note, most of the levels on Sonic Center that /HAVE/ movies, are no doubt (and you'll even see it in most of the movies) using Sonic 2 and Knuckles. Interestingly enough, there are a ton of levels that you can beat with an incredibly low time with Knuckles or Tails (since he can fly in Sonic 2 and Knuckles) that you cannot beat with Sonic. I'm playing Sonic 2, not Sonic 2 and Knuckles: there is no blast processor, Sonic 2 is ultimately slower than Sonic 3 or Sonic 2 and Knuckles, and it's being judged by being compared not only to records that don't even apply to Sonic, but also to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles movie.
And, just as another quick note, Sonic 2 is a much shorter game than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. He had to use 100K+ re-records, because the game is much longer, and much faster, and even at 20% slow-down, things can go by blurringly fast.
There is a version of the emulator with frame advance (but you have to PM Jyzero to get it).
And there's always 6% speed.
He used 100K+ rerecords because on a Sonic Game that's almost what you have to do.
And the records at the Sonic Center are benchmarks. They very much should be used in judging movies unless proven to be fake.
Is there a way to play Sonic 2 and Knuckles on Gens?
If there isn't a way to do it then you need to point these things out in your submission text (for example, "According to Sonic Center, my Oil Ocean times were much higher than the records, but they used blahdy blahdy blah which is impossible in this version, for Chemical Plant I am missing blahblahsome. And overall the normal Sonic 2 is slower than the one they used because Blahtersome."). That's what it's there for. No need to get huffy about it later.
It doesn't matter that the videos weren't published on this site, because our endevor is to make movies that are perfect in everyway, shattering all other previous times. Read the Sonic 1 thread. I know xebra has invested at least 25,000 rerecords into just the first level. Granted it hasn't progressed much, but that's as much computer problems, as laziness, as overly exacting perfectionism, as not taking 24 for an answer.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Done.
But, yeah, you can play it on Gens, but according to _Q (and i'd just done this myself, as well), you can only play the Sonic 2 and Knuckles lock-on as Knuckles. Oh well.
I'm probably just going to start another project while this one gets processed. I'm getting too wrapped up in this, and getting upset when I don't need to be.
about all the shortcuts and low rerecord, i can somewhat agree with MI on that. after playing a game for so long, certain things you KNOW will happen and thereby you may not need as many rerecords. however, as to that tile, it might be a luck manipulation thing (Chem Plant). try pressing buttons in a different combonation to make it appear... it sounds a bit odd, but i KNOW this is how it works out for most games.
im not sure of what area you mean in specific as im now at HILL TOP ZONE, but this is usually a problem. games are generally PERFECTLY emulated (hence why we use Good>System Name<ROMs).
and Desyncing... i feel for you (the 16 bit consoles seem to have this a lot when i use them)... so after each level, make SURE to check on this. also, ask Jyzero if you haven't already for 9c version of Gens as it has PERFECT SYNCHRO which will help a lot.
as far as criticism, just learn to listen to it but not take it personally... any movie i submit usually gets ripped a new one... and the best post i always get from someone is:
I DONT KNOW HOW THIS GAME WORKS, BUT... (and then they say they voted no).
and ive noticed your calmness as well... its insane... my first "critique" here, i snapped and had to reword a lot of posts to keep myself from getting banned. but now, i just take it in stride.
and i never knew that about SONIC and KNUCKLES as opposed to SONIC alone... nifty... oh, and OINIPOTENT, i do have a ROM of each of the KNUCKLES cartridges on each of the games (SONIC 1 and KNUCKLES, SONIC 2 and KNUCKLES, etc. im not sure if these are accepted here or not.)
and DONT worry about rerecords. SprintGod used 100+K and i only think the more of him... someone who dedicates themself to such perfection (though ive seen posts that claim otherwise) is truly wonderful and nice to know when watching a movie (especially since the SONIC ones can get quite large for DLs).
and one last thing to wrap up this massive post... instead of heartache, do a level and then ask someone to host the GMV file so it can be evaluated in the WiP section (Games). this will save you frustration and allow improvement before proceeding. its a MUCH better idea then doing it all only to get mistakes pointed out to you in the first level or 2 of your half hour movie.
and i really dont want you to walk away from this... you're improving a LOT... and someone needs tomake this movie (as opposed to endlessly discussing it; no offense to you guys). but i understand needing a break from the game. just think about doing WiP's instead of submitting full movies it SHOULD help you a lot in that heartache area.
Gens 9c was released to public (see gens section). Try it. Frame advance is another dimension of rerecording.
And I just want to say something about rerecord count. It was meant to be a fun stat, not a movie evaluation criteria.
An evident lack of rolling baby !
See the three first levels ... almost all loops taken while running !
Yeah. I know. I've been trying to work on that, but i've only just grasped the concept of where and when to roll. I plan to eventually get it under 25 minutes, if at all possible. I've been devoting myself religiously to this game. :P
Jyzero wrote:
And I just want to say something about rerecord count. It was meant to be a fun stat, not a movie evaluation criteria.
Hhhh... Okay, I tried to be nice because you're new here I don't want to destroy all your motivation because of a bad few first submissions (everybody's first submission is bad), so I said "You're getting closer" when the truth is "This submission blows."
You have the completely wrong attitude. Don't settle for being 45 seconds slower on a level. Don't even settle for being 1 second slower. If you are 2 seconds faster, redo it again and see if you can make it 4 seconds faster.
>Sure, they're fast, but you haven't been spending the last three days playing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 every waking hour to try to improve oneself.
Wow, three whole days. How long do you think people usually spend perfecting the movies here? :/
>For example, Chemical Plant 1: there's supposed to be a small little door that opens up and leads to the area where normally I run under the little blue beads that hop up from the floor. In MY version of the game, it's non-existant for some reason, or I can't seem to find it (oddly, though, i've looked in the same place: apparently someone took it out, or something).
That's no excuse. (If it's true, which I somewhat doubt.) Use the same version as they did.
>Another, in Oil Ocean Zone, people make awesome times by being able to rush under the oil and get through to parts previous unaccessible without risking life or limb.
So why don't you? You SHOULD risk life and limb, because if you mess up you have the handy F8 button to fix it for you. Redo it until you get it right.
>No-one from Sonic Center has posted their movies, nor a speed-run, here on this website!
The Sonic Center doesn't use savestates or slowmotion. Why should they post their movies to a website with different standards?
>As far as i'm concerned, this record is unbeatable.
Hilarious. Brain meltdown?
>And when this submission gets accepted, ....
*topples over laughing*
>For now, why don't you just act like there /are/ no records. It'll be a hell of alot more impressive.
From http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html
A speed-oriented movie must beat all existing records
If your movie is going to beat something, be sure it beats it. If your tool-assisted movie is slower than the non-toolassisted world record of the game you play, your movie will almost certainly be rejected.
>The records on Sonic Center have NOT been accepted here as submissions, and therefore, should not be used against me in the judging process.
See above. Your submission has about a snowball's chance in hell to be accepted.
>Interestingly enough, there are a ton of levels that you can beat with an incredibly low time with Knuckles or Tails (since he can fly in Sonic 2 and Knuckles) that you cannot beat with Sonic.
This is no excuse. All the times I posted in the Sonic 2 topic were for Sonic only. You have Tails too (which is probably the reason you're faster in Metropolis with the screws).
> I'm playing Sonic 2, not Sonic 2 and Knuckles: there is no blast processor, Sonic 2 is ultimately slower than Sonic 3 or Sonic 2 and Knuckles, and it's being judged by being compared not only to records that don't even apply to Sonic, but also to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles movie.
Sonic 2 and Knuckles cannot be played with Sonic. If Sonic 2 and Knuckles is faster or not is irrelevant, all the times I posted were for Sonic 2 only.
>And, just as another quick note, Sonic 2 is a much shorter game than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. He had to use 100K+ re-records, because the game is much longer, and much faster, and even at 20% slow-down, things can go by blurringly fast.
Your movie is 30 minutes. His is 50 minutes. 900 * 2 = 1800, not 110,000.
I wouldn't have cared about how many rerecords you had if your submission had been any good, but now it's not and the rerecord number makes it obvious you didn't try hard enough.
-----
On another note, I wonder which 4 people voted Yes for this. They must have seen another movie than I did.
>As far as i'm concerned, this record is unbeatable.
Hilarious. Brain meltdown?
Yeah.
>Interestingly enough, there are a ton of levels that you can beat with an incredibly low time with Knuckles or Tails (since he can fly in Sonic 2 and Knuckles) that you cannot beat with Sonic.
This is no excuse. All the times I posted in the Sonic 2 topic were for Sonic only. You have Tails too (which is probably the reason you're faster in Metropolis with the screws).
Bingo. I also included Tails in the movies because there's some interesting things you can do with him (not limited to cutting several seconds from MZ times by using him for the screws), and would add in an entertainment factor that'd be lacking from a pure-Sonic film.
>Sure, they're fast, but you haven't been spending the last three days playing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 every waking hour to try to improve oneself.
Wow, three whole days. How long do you think people usually spend perfecting the movies here? :/
Months and months. And, to me, three whole days is alot when all i've been doing (besides school and sleeping) is playing Sonic 2 and improving myself. It's more of the issue of self-pride.
>The records on Sonic Center have NOT been accepted here as submissions, and therefore, should not be used against me in the judging process.
See above. Your submission has about a snowball's chance in hell to be accepted.
I knew that the minute me and my friend signed up on this account, and I first submitted it. At the time I first submitted my first speed-run, I already knew that it was going to get shot down before it even reached enemy territory.
>And, just as another quick note, Sonic 2 is a much shorter game than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. He had to use 100K+ re-records, because the game is much longer, and much faster, and even at 20% slow-down, things can go by blurringly fast.
Your movie is 30 minutes. His is 50 minutes. 900 * 2 = 1800, not 110,000.
I wouldn't have cared about how many rerecords you had if your submission had been any good, but now it's not and the rerecord number makes it obvious you didn't try hard enough.
My lack of re-records has nothing to do with wether or not I tried hard enough. My effort was focused mainly on improving myself. And what better way than doing it over and over again? All my previous submissions each had decreasing re-record counts. Infact, the one that desynced (that I had previously planned to submit as well) was 45 seconds longer than this version, and had 750 or so re-records. So, though this may not mean a whole lot to you, this submission had a significant amount of work put into it.
>Another, in Oil Ocean Zone, people make awesome times by being able to rush under the oil and get through to parts previous unaccessible without risking life or limb.
So why don't you? You SHOULD risk life and limb, because if you mess up you have the handy F8 button to fix it for you. Redo it until you get it right.
I'll try that. Thank you. :)
You have the completely wrong attitude.
Incorrect. I have the right attitude. My attitude was, and still is, confident, aggressive, and determined. As far as i'm concerned, all these submissions were a learning process; not for Sonic 2, but for making these movies in general. See how it all pans out?
Eitherways, I needed the harsh reality. Thanks, Trun. :)
Just two really fast comments: First, I checked both the tricks you mentioned (the chem 1 strat and the oil trick) and both can be done with the ROM you use.
Second, frame advance should be your best friend. It makes the above tricks incredibly easy to do.
That is the one thing I cannot stress enough: FRAME ADVANCE. Especially for a game this fast and precise, there is almost no way to approach perfection without it.
Also, and it's not just you but other people as well...only submit a movie if you think it is worthy of this site. If you want to host a WIP, try Filespace, that's what I do and it works fine.
Just keep at it, my first couple movies were pretty awful too (I don't mean submissions, there were a couple others before I started doing so).
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
If you are working on another movie, take all the advice people are giving you to heart. This site is by the community, for the community. If the community isn't happy with your product, then you have no one to sell it to.
Make it your top priority, on every level, to beat by a significant margin the times listed at the Sonic Center. They are real. Having done speed runs for a few of the S2 levels, all of the S1 levels, and all of S3 competition mode, I know how the games work, I know human limitations, and I know how rerecording can be exploited to circumvent these limitations. In almost every case you should be executing impossible maneuvers to improve upon the human runs.
ever since that sonic 3 movie came out people have ripped other submissions (not only these sonic 2 ones, but other games too) to hell wanting perfection. i thought your last submissions were pretty good myself. sonic 2 is a bit slower paced than what 3 is but i did notice some problems.
1. sometimes you charge up a spin where it would be faster to run full speed
2. when charging up a spin, you seem to come out slower than normal. it might be just me but i seem to remember flying out of that charge like a bat out of hell.
3. when you fall off a platform only to run the other way (hard to explain) into a spring, try and slow down so you fall right next to it, or even better into it so you dont have to spend much time retracing your steps.
having said that i'll now watch this submission to see if those things have changed.
EDIT - having watched the first levels (up to casino 2 now) i gotta say i'm impressed. everything i mentioned has been done already. good work. love to see if you could get this under 25 min.
Joined: 11/20/2004
Posts: 236
Location: United States
Hm. . . Too many mistakes over all. . . Time-consuming mistakes in Chemical Plant Zone, Casino Night Zone, Hill Top Zone, Oil Ocean Zone(other than those already mentioned, I mean), Metropolis Zone(especially in Act 3), and the at least half of the boss fights need some work on the speed factor.
As for show-offiness in Sky Chase, try to get more consecutive kills in a row. Like with the area that has six of those Nebulas in an upside-down V shape, try to nail all six in one swoop. Heh. Also, some of those rows of Balkirys can be nailed in a consective motion if you try hard enough.
Lastly, here's some fun facts about Silver Sonic and the Egg Mech. Did you know Miles can simply duck down under and behind Silver Sonic's whirling spines? Did you know you can nail the Egg Mech in the rear while it's walking? I've cut my Death Egg Zone time down to 0:52 by doing this. And once. . . For one glorious attempt. . .I was able to nail him all twelve times before he took off. But more to cutting time. . . If you rev up before the computer takes over as you escape Death Egg, you can cut your time down quite a bit more. Heh, I may not know the levels themselves, but I damned sure know the boss fights and Death Egg.
Summary:
Final Vote: No.Main Reasons: It's a beautiful speed run, but there are a lot of sloppy mistakes, especially during some of the boss fights.
Advice: Play Death Egg Zone until you can get an 11-1 run on the Egg Mech, if not a 12-0 run.(For hits.) Use Miles instead of Sonic(and Miles) if you want to hasten your attack on Silver Sonic. Dash less, run more. Or if you Dash, don't rev up as much.
Edit: Yes, I edit my posts a lot. Sorry.
ever since that sonic 3 movie came out people have ripped other submissions (not only these sonic 2 ones, but other games too) to hell wanting perfection.
Last I checked, movies here were published because they displayed super-human feats of almost perfection. The S&K3 movie is a prime example of a super-human feat, and thus other movies get compared to it looking for the same quality of playing.
Unfortunately, some movies get past this judging simply by having enough "yes" votes, but that's an entirely different rant.
KITTIES! Aw. They're so cute!
