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The SNES version is a better port of Original Prince of Persia released for the Apple II. This game is one of my favorites! The SNES port was developed by Arsys Software and published by Masaya (in Japan) and Konami (USA/Europe).

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: Bizhawk 1.11.7
  • Aims for in-game time instead of real time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programing errors

About this run

The actual run of this game isn't obsoleted for 11 years until now! This new TAS, due of more accurate emulation of Bizhawk, it's very hard to say how much time has been improved in terms of comparable gameplay improvements, because lag is much harder to notable. I estimate that the real improved time it was 49 seconds if count only gameplay improvements.
This TAS is 33.22 seconds faster (33:28:43) outright due emulation differences, but is 30.44 seconds faster (33:31:21) because this input ends 167 frames later to improve 3 in-game seconds of final level.
This run was done 100% by me. Odongdong isn't involved in this TAS, but his WIP contributed to me, and for The First 500 project. So I credited as a co-author for his contribuition.
My main motivation of this TAS it was when I found a improved run (by mintlody) on NicoNico's website. This run includes almost all improvements that I used in this TAS, including this pause abuse. But my TAS, I use pause extensively, to improves all stages on in-game time, creating a new (almost) type of TAS for this game!

General notes:

  • In each level, pausing this game (using select button) on cutscenes (Stage clear, mirror path of Stage 5, Bosses of Stage 9, 16 & 18), stop 3-4 in-game seconds, but on Jaffar's appearances of Stage 15 and 19, it's possible to stop more in-game seconds!
  • With pause, it's possible to save 1-4 frames, depending of a determined frame in which to unpause and depending of some stages.

Stage-by-Stage Comments:

Notice: Due of emulation differences, I failed to calculate the improved frames on each stage (expect Stage 1 and 20).
  • Level 1 - Little optimization on the second room.
  • Level 2 - Different (and faster) route on the middle of this stage.
  • Level 3 - Little new optimizations.
  • Level 4 - Little slowdown reduction, improved all guards skip.
  • Level 5 - Little new optimizations, new strategy on mirror path without losing speed.
  • Level 6 - Litte boss optimization.
  • Level 7 - Little optimization on potion's room.
  • Level 8 - Different strategy to open exit.
  • Level 9 - Boss optimization.
  • Level 10 - Improved almost all skeletons new skip.
  • Level 11 - Improved guard and a difficulty pattern (or RNG) of flames trap.
  • Level 12 - Yellow skeleton boss optimized.
  • Level 13 - 4 frames is sacrified on start to manipulate the first guard, because of pause used during a stage clear of previous stage, I lacked that RNG manipulation. Fortunately, I recovered the same pattern used on published run.
  • Level 14 - New way to skip the second guard without reenconter again. For same reason of Stage 13, I sacrified 4 frames again to manipulate the third guard, but to my surprise, I saved more frames than published run on this guard due of a different RNG, allowing me to defeat this guard with a simple sword attack. Other improvement is a way to active exit door switch without opening the gate that leads to that exit switch, saving a lot of time!
  • Level 15 - New optimizations, including the 2nd guard on both encounters.
  • Level 16 - New guard skip and a faster strategy to drink the potion of warp (ducking is faster than stopping movement)
  • Level 17 - Boss Skip! To work this glitch, it's necessary to get hit with only one energy and on a correct position. Dying makes Prince to reach the exit with a sufficient distance. A lot of time saved!
  • Level 18 - More optimized boss and a new last guard skip.
  • Level 19 - Better optimizations. During this battle of that unavoidable guard on Level 19 (The first of 5 bosses of Throne Room), for the same reason of using pause of stage 12 (but I used more extensively time), I lacked that RNG manipulation, forcing me to defeat this guard using a different sword attack, losing some frames.
  • Stage 20 - Saved 2 frames using a pause during Jaffar's appearance before the final battle.
After finishing the credits, it's possible to return to menu. In menu, It you go to Best Time, it's possible to see each in-game time of this stages, including of Level 20!

In-game stages 

             SprintGod's old snes9x TAS                                                  Challenger's new Bizhawk TAS

Possible improvements

  • During of midlle of this project and this game, I noted 2 mistakes on Level 2 (lost 12 frames totally), 2 mistakes on level 3 (lost 5-6 frames totally), and 1 frame lost on the last room of Stage 4. I tried to fix editing my TAS, but failed due of bad pattern of flames on Level 11.

Special Thanks

  • SprintGod, for the published TAS.
  • Odongdong, for his WIP of first 7 levels.
  • Mintlody, for that improved run on NicoNico. This run helped me a lot! Almost all improvements I used, including that new skips!
  • Alyosha, for the First 500 project. This game hasn't been improved since 2005, until now!
Another 2005 run to be obsoleted! Now only 10 (2005) runs left to be obsoleted! And left 13 runs of The First 500 to be obsoleted!
Masterjun: Judging.
Masterjun: This movie has a lot of neat little improvements, however, this doesn't make this run much more entertaining. Accepting as an improvement to the previous run into the Vault.
Spikestuff: Publishing!

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Posted: 11/24/2016 7:14 PM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5302: Challenger & Odongdong's SNES Prince of Persia in 33:31.20
Posted: 11/24/2016 8:02 PM
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Alyosha
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Great work Challenger! Once again I have to say how impressed I am by how quickly and thoroughly you worked through this game. Having worked through PoP2 I can say that this type of game is not as easy to optimize as it seems. Great research and great work! Voting Yes! Also having another game on an updated emulator is a valuable upgrade. I'll be looking forward to your next project!
Posted: 11/25/2016 9:21 AM
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Dwedit
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Explanation of the glitch where you switch places with the guards?
Posted: 11/25/2016 10:29 AM
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Challenger
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Dwedit wrote:
Explanation of the glitch where you switch places with the guards?
According of SprintGod's comment (on SNES topic): It requires an almost perfectly positioned and perfectly timed jump. If done correctly, he'll swing too early and miss, giving you enough time to jump past him and run away. A lot of trial and error is involved, because you'll usually get stabbed in the back before you're out of range.
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Posted: 11/25/2016 12:27 PM
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Hetfield90
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Link to video
Posted: 11/25/2016 1:21 PM
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Challenger
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Thanks for the encode, Hetfield! Encode added on submission!
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Posted: 11/25/2016 5:31 PM
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Titus_Kwok
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Many runs of this back in the day were ruined by failing to jump through guards correctly. Yes vote.
Posted: 11/27/2016 9:05 AM
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zoboner
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Very good job...Yes vote
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Posted: 11/28/2016 1:25 AM
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dan
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It looked like you were moving as fast as you can, and did not have any unnecessary backtracking. My favorite part was towards the end of Level 19. Yes vote.
Posted: 11/28/2016 1:43 PM
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Odongdong
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You did a great job, thanks for putting me on the author. As mentioned earlier, this is completely fantastic improvement to the original considering how the game strictly limits movement of the player. I like despite using more accurate emulator, your run still surpasses the old one by a lot. I agree with SNES version being the better version. In fact, SNES version is probably the definitive PoP experience out there, almost doubling the number of stages and adding new traps, bosses, musics, and a bunch of other stuffs. That being said, here're some screenshot suggestion for publication: The biggest improvement in the run. Can't decide for me which one is good looking. The skeleton barely hits the prince. One of the nice guard skips. The previous run also killed off the guard, but here it's done in Sparta-style.
Posted: 11/29/2016 7:18 AM
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creaothceann
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Odongdong wrote:
This one looks nice, and is quite representative of PoP.
Posted: 11/30/2016 3:56 AM
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zaphod77
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This is a very nice and extended version of Prince of Persia. Also despite the engine extensions, the perfect play control form the original is kept here. A very nice run. The original version pf PoP is still great though. I recommend TASing the Sega CD version next, with use of the speed adjustment feature to speed up the action. :) should be quite entertaining seeign th egame blazed through at speed 1
Posted: 11/30/2016 9:53 AM
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Challenger
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zaphod77 wrote:
.I recommend TASing the Sega CD version next, with use of the speed adjustment feature to speed up the action. :) should be quite entertaining seeign th egame blazed through at speed 1
I have the version of the Sega CD. I had also thought about it, but I do not know to adjust the speed of the game pausing during the game can be allowed. Maybe this function going to break a rule of the site or not.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Posted: 12/1/2016 7:16 AM
Post subject: Movie published
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TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3271] SNES Prince of Persia by Challenger & Odongdong in 33:31.20
Posted: 12/1/2016 9:58 AM
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Challenger
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Aims for maximum score? It Aims for in-game time instead of real time, actually.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:30 AM
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Odongdong
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Vault? A number of people seemed to enjoy it. I'd also like to contribute the new description if no one else wants to. Current one doesn't much tell about the game.
Posted: 12/4/2016 5:50 AM
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Spikestuff
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This is more of a reminder. Sometimes people would just vote "Yes" if it's just an improvement, not anything related to entertainment. Because of this, runs actually had a grace period on where it was in the Moon before promptly being placed right into the Vault. Out of those 15 Yes votes, only 5 commented about their vote. Due to this Masterjun could only work with 33.33% of the votes which lead to it going to Vault. Currently on the rating movies there are only 2 votes which is nowhere near enough votes. A 6 & 7.6 on entertainment which creates a 6.8 on overall entertainment. More people would need to vote here for it to be able to go from Vault to Moon. It has to rate higher than 6 on Entertainment with a good amount of votes if I recall correctly.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:07 PM
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Samsara
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Spikestuff wrote:
Sometimes people would just vote "Yes" if it's just an improvement, not anything related to entertainment. Because of this, runs actually had a grace period on where it was in the Moon before promptly being placed right into the Vault.
This doesn't happen as often as you think, and you can never actually tell who's doing it unless they specifically explain their vote.
Out of those 15 Yes votes, only 5 commented about their vote. Due to this Masterjun could only work with 33.33% of the votes which lead to it going to Vault.
I don't think any Judge actually works this way. That's literally throwing away well over half of the votes received. I tended to work by discounting a couple unexplained votes since quite a few movies get unexplained Meh/No votes and throwing away even up to 25% of Yes votes makes no difference, but I would always generally go with what the majority said regardless when it comes to tiering. My main concern with the tiering decision is how hasty it was. It was accepted to Vault four days after submission, even with a 100% positive rating and a number of positive thread posts. I feel like a longer wait before acceptance/publication would have lead to a more confident tiering decision. But, eh, that's just personal opinion.
Currently on the rating movies there are only 2 votes which is nowhere near enough votes. A 6 & 7.6 on entertainment which creates a 6.8 on overall entertainment. More people would need to vote here for it to be able to go from Vault to Moon. It has to rate higher than 6 on Entertainment with a good amount of votes if I recall correctly.
>6.5 is more accurate, I'd say, though the problem with this is that Vault movies tend to get less ratings in general. Otherwise that's all correct, and it's why mistiering isn't such a huge deal. If you disagree with tier placement, just rate the publication accordingly (and fairly: no 10/10 or 0/0, staff can catch that pretty easily) and it should be moved if there's enough support.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:22 PM
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Noxxa
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I talked with Masterjun about this one before he made the decision. The main argument was that when a movie improves upon a previous movie, it generally would stay within the same tier, unless there is a visible difference in entertainment value between this one and the previous. I haven't watched both runs to compare, but evidently according to Masterjun, there wasn't. And yes, movies that are improvements do often get a disproportionately high amount of yes votes. People tend to lean towards judging only the improvement rather than the entertainment value of the whole run, and the improvement itself is almost always favorable.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 12/4/2016 12:46 PM
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arandomgameTASer
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...Well I liked it. Also votes are a poor way to judge something post-publication when only 3 or 4 people vote in the first place...
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Posted: 12/4/2016 4:42 PM
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Alyosha
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I generally don't mind tiering decisions since I consider the system irrelevent, and I also understand that voting isn't the only factor in tiering, but I have to say that if you are going to meta-game the voting to the point where a run can go 15-0 at acceptance and be placed in the vault, then perhaps it's a sign that something has gone awry.
Posted: 12/5/2016 7:25 AM
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zaphod77
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Challenger wrote:
zaphod77 wrote:
.I recommend TASing the Sega CD version next, with use of the speed adjustment feature to speed up the action. :) should be quite entertaining seeign th egame blazed through at speed 1
I have the version of the Sega CD. I had also thought about it, but I do not know to adjust the speed of the game pausing during the game can be allowed. Maybe this function going to break a rule of the site or not.
it is done during ingame pause menu. therefore it's allowed. press start during gameplay, go down to speed (move) press a, press left a few times. do same with speed(fight)
Posted: 12/5/2016 7:35 AM
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zaphod77
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While this is entertaining, it's mainly entertaining to those who have played the game. It also doesn't look THAT superhuman, because of the slow game speed. every stunt is pretty much doable RTA,or looks like it. My proposed SegaCD tas would solve that in a hurry, by using high speed mode for move and fight it runs at 60FPS (pretty sure). maybe 30. Will look much more superhuman. :)
Posted: 12/6/2016 2:33 PM
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arandomgameTASer
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http://tasvideos.org/rating.exe/3271/details Well, it's above the 6.0 entertainment cutoff. Considering how Scrapyard Dog has a far lower rating and yet has Moons, I think this is a decent enough rating to move this to Moons. I mean, mistakes happen. It's not a huge deal. Also a segacd TAS would be...interesting.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 3:29 PM
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Masterjun
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I looked at a few factors when judging this run. First of all, the viewer feedback. Submissions that are faster than a previous run usually have a higher support than new game submissions (not by a lot, but a bit). Looking at the posts in the thread it seemed like a bunch of them knew the game beforehand (which might push the support even further, see Metal Force submission). But even then, 15 Yes votes is quite a lot. Next one, the game itself. This run shows 33 minutes of repeating gameplay without the viewer knowing what's the goal of each level, while looking like a well-made RTA run. Remember that, for Moons, game choice is a strong factor. Doesn't look too good here. And I'm not judging this on my own: Which brings me to the final factor, the previous publications. As Mothrayas already stated, the previous run went into the Vault. Now, look at the votes that submission got. Looks the same as here. Then, look at the ratings that submission got. Looks like Vault. I had to compare the runs and decide whether the improvements were entertaining enough to grant a publication in Moons. Look at the time comparison in the submission text. Reminder that 3-4 in-game seconds were saved in each level from pausing the game (meaning no actual real-time improvement). Most of the time you can't even see the optimizations. We had a run with good votes, but due to bad ratings it went into the Vault. Now we have a slightly better run with good votes and mostly unchanged entertainment value. How would you predict are the ratings going to be? For everyone arguing that a judge should just look at the votes and decide from there, or that a 15-0 ratio automatically assures a place in Moons, just look at the previous run and the ratings then. How would you argue against over 30 ratings?
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
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