Posted: 4/11/2017 10:30β€―PM
(Edited: 4/12/2017 7:17β€―PM)
Post subject: Listing ALL possible NES TAS material games
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MESHUGGAH
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I started to check all games found in GoodNes 3.23b. Something like this: edit:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AnWQ58TzUNhuCYstyrSUnlSJgrbbFe3aV6iFj8p9xkc/edit?usp=sharing A list of all NES games. I'm looking for feedback about what information would you think to be useful. A few words: - Alternative name helps you to search the game on the web (japanese TAS on nicovideo for example) - Language is only the main language of the game - Other versions excludes hacks - Video is always a "better than nothing" visual, don't expect full playthroughs - I only note non obvious things so far (for example "not laggy" versus "laggy game" and summarizing primary rejection cause) I welcome any feedback. Obviously I would make a lot of edits (spending time for researching it and documenting). Should I just share it on google drive and link it here? And which sub-forum (I didn't wanted to pollute NES forum with a non-game fixed thread)?
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Posted: 4/11/2017 11:24β€―PM
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CtrlAltDestroy
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This thread might be related: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18578
Posted: 4/12/2017 12:01β€―AM
Post subject: Re: Listing ALL possible NES TAS material games
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scrimpeh
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
The purpose of this is making a list for all NES games that have a potential to make it TAS worthy. Obviously I would make a lot of edits (spending time for researching it and documenting). Should I just share it on google drive and link it here? And which sub-forum (I didn't wanted to pollute NES forum with a non-game fixed thread)?
Why not make a page on the TASvideos wiki? There's also Wiki: ListOfIdeas already. You could make a separate page for existing movies with improvements.
Posted: 4/12/2017 4:53β€―AM
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jlun2
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Not sure how applicable it would be for NES games, but would it make more sense listing games which don't have vaultable+ requirements, given that (I think) it's more likely NES games aren't like Atari where it often goes forever? But if you already did made a partial list of TAS-ok games, I guess posting a shared google drive link of results would work too.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 4/12/2017 5:03β€―AM
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link_7777
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I started a project I'm calling TASMania (in homage to TMR's NESMania), CtrlAltDestroy linked to the thread already. I would note that the list only includes licensed games released in NA and EU. I have created this spreadsheet for the project: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14mIIGHU4hzK1atRsVgMtwc8hNkUc2Ty48loCNj8O9Bc/edit?usp=sharing I have also set up a discord here: https://discord.gg/jkWAm6k The idea of putting down some notes about games that may make better movies, or those that may be unpublishable for some reason may be a good addition to the spreadsheet.
Posted: 4/12/2017 9:41β€―AM
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MESHUGGAH
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scrimpeh: page on tasvideos wiki -> too many edits, spreadsheet solution still sounds better. Yes, I was something along the lines of this TASMania. The information I'm researching (and missing from that spreadsheets) are: - comments on TASing (occurence of lag frames, tips to improve TAS, possible categories etc) - currently fastest times (for example zombie nation sub 18 instead of "~1 hour") - possible categories (using plain logic, like "platformer game with many enemies -> maybe pacifism can be implemented). So yeah, making a list to encourage and help fellow TASers to make a stab on a NES game. If I would research all NES games and test all possible tricks, I will never complete. But I believe I have enough notes for many games that can help even slightly.
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Posted: 4/12/2017 10:20β€―AM
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TASeditor
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MESHUGGAH, I highly appreciate you doing a listing of your research of the 100+ projects you have started, since many people don't optimize the games to their full potential, because they don't have that much experience as you have and thus can't figure out game rules which are essential for optimizing. It would be most beneficial that you group specific games which share similiar rule sets, so you don't have to worry about every game.
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Posted: 4/12/2017 2:36β€―PM
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link_7777
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A column for a few quick notes could be useful for the spreadsheet, though at a certain threshold that information probably belongs in a forum thread (which is linked in the spreadsheet). I'm not sure of the best way to manage it, but I'm sure you have a lot of good information and I can try to add it to the spreadsheet if you post it somewhere. Updated estimates could also be useful. The ones that are there are ancient RTA estimates, and some of them were way off based on NESMania results.
Posted: 4/12/2017 11:48β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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I've reformatted and revised (videos, names, notes) my spreadsheet (link in first comment). Stuffs I can't fill in too much (language barrier): - nicovideo, touga and other videos for the list (japanese, chinese games and TASes) - chinese/japanese language games My idea is that someone picks a game from the list and tries to TAS it. If needs help, creates thread. I guess I need some preword/preface or what.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 9:52β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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I'm planning to start TAS movies for most of the entries. I think that creating a basic TAS and adding enough information will encourage others to pick up a game and give feedback on their progress. I'm looking for those veterans in NES and TASers to also try their own luck. Feel free to raise your voice if you have any ideas or just opinions. I will try to hang out at #tasvideos. I'm thinking what tools I could use to minimize time spent on each game. Something like a LUA script that - checks for uninitialized SRAM (Cheetahmen 2) - info like mapper used, finding a date (of development) or a version number - some detailed info about different versions (things like the same value is different everywhere, number of bytes changes) - Dusting off my general purpose LUA framework and make some crazy ideas as a function (up down, udlr etc) so I can do tests in realtime and from that state to work on it later in TAS Editor Crazy functions - detect save game region to check "Resetting while saving" - any kind of meter or value that indicates lag frames - what and how many subroutines running with logging (RNG, input polling) - memory values changing how often which region (faster assemble of engine regions like level, camera, states, hitbox etc I guess I should checkout BizHawk and TASStudio or what as I don't have cooling problems now (laptop and overheating). I will post here my LUA scripts when I dive in to this magical journey =) I welcome any scripts or tools (like Mothrayas" NES threads ordered by title)
PhD in TASing πŸŽ“ speedrun enthusiast ❀🚷πŸ”₯ white hat hacker β–“ black box tester β–‘ censorships and rules...
Posted: 4/13/2017 11:22β€―PM
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TaoTao
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Wow, I like this kind of projects, like TheMexicanRunner's NesMania, or famicomall in Japan. Though it will be the hard way for TAS. Anyway, I try suggesting some games which will be challenging for TAS. * Challenger (J) (Japanese: チャレンジャー) This game has a in-game cheat. On the first stage, you usually cannot kill the boss and he escapes, but if you successfully kill the boss, you can warp to the final stage (it had been confirmed with emulator cheat). Some people claims they succeeded to do it with legitimate way, but nobody so far proved it with a movie even with tool-assist. So, it will be valuable to achieve it with TAS. A TAS video was uploaded on nicovideo. You have to hit 12 times to kill the first stage boss, but the author says he could hit only 11 times even with TAS. I had found that you can manipulate RNG with player2 input in this game. * F-1 Race (J) (Japanese: F-1 レース) I tased this game long ago (movie file is here). I think it will be very difficult to run 3 laps on the final stage without the turbo-mode cheat, even with TAS (I tried it in the movie I said, but I was 22 frames short). I had uploaded a HUD script.
Posted: 4/14/2017 2:04β€―AM
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MESHUGGAH
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The reason I go with the "start TASing games one by one" is 1. Increase exposure on a game, test and research enough stuff to decrease level of TASing skills required (getting as many TASers as possible) 2. Probably getting help better. "Everyone" (following my project) checks what I'm working and have time to learn from me. So someone grabs it "from me" and then I move on to the next game. 3. I have way too much experience to "waste" it on already existing TASes (new TAS vs optimize TAS), and the fact that I know there won't be much help from others. 4. So I'm currently planing to start Zunou Senkan Galg and see what can I do from it. And also trying to plan and write some nifty script. I will probably use BizHawk - TAStudio. (thanks spikestuff for the typo)
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:56β€―AM
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Dimon12321
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Please add my WIP and topic at your lists of NES games: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=444071 (WIP included)
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/15/2017 3:55β€―PM
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Odongdong
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Here's a couple of games released this year (2017): NES port of Mystery World Dizzy became publicly available this week, celebrating the series' 30th anniversary. Action/Adventure game. Preview here. Magic Kid Googoo is an incredibly rare unlicensed platformer released in 1992, inaccessible until somebody finally secured the cartridge and released it in this February. You should check it out, because it's developed by the same team behind TASVideos favorite Metal Force. You can find it at the Lost Levels forum.
Posted: 4/30/2017 9:14β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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So far, I've uploaded 5-6 WIPs from Z to Y, each WIP includes extra notes. I'm not sure which path should I choose. * Continue creating starting WIPs and include every info whatever memory watch into one place or * Finish all these shit in my favoured order one by one
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Posted: 5/1/2017 9:50β€―AM
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TASeditor
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Do you have ram watches or scripts for your WIPs?
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Posted: 5/1/2017 8:45β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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Yes but I'm not sure where should I centralize all informations of a game. Maybe I should edit the usermovies and point a link to the sheet also. Also unsure about how to bundle them so someone just need to download one thing to get: 1. the movie file (fm2) 2. informations 3. ram addresses (fceux watch? bizhawk watch? ram addresses? what about lua scripts..) ...since .zip files are only allowed to contain 1 file in usermovies.
PhD in TASing πŸŽ“ speedrun enthusiast ❀🚷πŸ”₯ white hat hacker β–“ black box tester β–‘ censorships and rules...
Posted: 5/4/2017 3:57β€―PM
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jlun2
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Maybe a wiki where anyone can edit? I know vandalism is a potential issue, but given the niche of this topic (in comparison to say, the top visited wikis), it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Plus that would mean if someone didn't want to make an account here, they could still edit.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 5/4/2017 4:35β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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Well, Wiki: SDARunsWithoutAPublishedTAS has ~96 edits. If I would just update a wiki page (let's say here) with just every 5 entry while considering there are more than ~4000 games, it would be a lot of edits. I don't know the overhead (of editing multiple times the same page), I want the best solution for everyone, summarized again: 1. Someone checks the page of entries (currently the sheet, zero overhead for us) 2. A link to a starter WIP, lua scripts and memory watches (bundled and hosted maybe on google drive?) I'm still just guessing that this is what people need to pick up on a title, but I still don't have enough voice/feedback on what should I rely (movie file fceux vs bizhawk, memory address in plain or emu specific, lua script fceux or bizhawk...)
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Posted: 5/4/2017 4:52β€―PM
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TASeditor
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Bundling your WIPs, lua scripts, watches and notes sounds like a good idea. Memory addresses don't need to be emu specific, they're generally covered by lua scripts and plain text can be better for notes than a strict list. Upload the movie files and lua script from the emulator you used, don't mind about converting them, the users should do they if they want to.
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Posted: 5/4/2017 5:17β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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FCEUX movies and wch can be autoconverted to bizhawk so it's a good thing. I guess I will start creating a shared directory on google drive and upload all info per title to a directory. So all WIPs can be found in one place and also ability to download as a .zip file (IIRC).
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Posted: 5/15/2017 10:52β€―AM
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MESHUGGAH
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After doing some sheet editing and researches, this is what I have so far to report: - Doing as detailed as I did (1st post) is unaccomplishable, so I'm going to leave it as is and will update it in the below linked sheet - Completed Atari Lynx entries, 1st sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--8PPBixpCCEN34OoJmiGDtBC0bmJZnMC6tk_EAX8nM/edit?usp=sharing - Uploading NES WIPs on the TODO list - Sheet TODO: once a specific platform is deemed to be perfect in emulation AND it has only a few hundreds title, I start to sort it out. Just a little tidbit about entries highlighting: while most of the games run below half fps, they theoritically could produce an entertaining TAS. If you want a moon TAS, this sheet isn't for you. This is about the possiblities based on existing games.
PhD in TASing πŸŽ“ speedrun enthusiast ❀🚷πŸ”₯ white hat hacker β–“ black box tester β–‘ censorships and rules...
Posted: 7/8/2017 7:38β€―PM
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MESHUGGAH
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After a few times of thinking the estimated time of doing anything useful other than completing a game, I'm planning on doing a list of TASes with any info I have and update it one by one, so I'm not getting burdened on progress. You see, I have many movies through FCEUX 2.1.5? to BizHawk 2.0 and many movies are incompatible with different versions, not talking about PPU/fixes etc, and revaliding the authorships of the files I have (not everyone filled it in the past). Also I don't want my "treasurous" memory of (possible and done) improvements. I currently don't plan on TASing NES games because of the issues I already mention in my user homepage, but I think some TASers will find it useful. I will probably link it to my user hmoepage and into this post as an edit as soon as I start the process.
PhD in TASing πŸŽ“ speedrun enthusiast ❀🚷πŸ”₯ white hat hacker β–“ black box tester β–‘ censorships and rules...