New Game+ mode (transfers items/status from a save-file into a New Game)
aims for fastest possible time
manipulates luck (especially to avoid lag)
abuses glitches
Genre: RPG
Total Frames: 34190
About the Game
Chrono Trigger is a phantastic role-playing game made by Square. It is known as one of the best RPG games of all time. The story is about time-traveling in which a group of young adventurers is trying to save the future by defeating a mighty creature called "Lavos" which has infected and destroyed the world.
Moviemaking & Comments
This is again a improvement, and hopefully the definitely last one, of my previous Chrono Trigger New Game+ TAS. Once again I used my own save-file I have optimized for this movie to reach the fastest possible time in this mode.
I want to thank 3 important people. Without their contributions, this runs completion time wouldn't be possible:
Hero of the day ― He discovered a crazy trick to skip Marles "Candy-Scene" that saves incredible 1017 frames compared to pass it the usual way.
Inichi ― He found another crazy trick to lower "Battle Speed" from 1 to 2, which allowed to skip one major attack of Lavos (the Hand Sickles), and saved another amazing 314 frames in the end, despite the battles being slightly slower.
Bisqwit ― He found a new and faster way to change equipment through shop windows. It saved another solid 161 frames and was completely unexpected for me.
And I have another surprise for you: This time I used the "Active Battle Mode" (switching between them doesn't cost any frame) and experimented alot in the Battle strategies in this version, to find out that using "Ice Sword 2" on the Lavos Shell saves another ~110―115 frames! And finally I managed to save even ~10―15 more frames of lag by intentionally delaying some attacks to Lavos.
Except of all this boss fights, I couldn't save even one frame anywhere else. Not till the Lavos fight, and not even in the entire End Of Time scene (in fact, I even lost 1 frame during a screen change, which was unavoidable no matter what I tried), and this despite hard analyzing and testing in every place. This just shows how frame-perfect (other than the boss fights) the very 1st run already was. :-)
This runs completion time is 9:30 (slightly lower actually, but it was rounded up), with a total improvement of 299 frames (or 5 sec) to the 3rd and currently published version.
Enjoy!
Bisqwit: Accepting. And processing… (Because my only way to verify that the movie actually completes (for accepting it) also had me make an AVI, which I'll then re-encode.)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Indeed this is crazy. I thoroughly enjoy seeing this game pushed further to the limit. Voting yes.
You mention that Ice Sword is faster than luminaire by ~110 frames. I was thinking this might be a faster strategy for the 2nd lavos battle:
1-luminaire
2-luminaire
3-ice sword 2
4-ice sword 2
5-HyperEther
6-luminaire
7-ice sword 2
Which is 1 turn less than you do.
or maybe:
1-luminaire
2-luminaire
3-ice sword 1
4-ice sword 1
5-ice sword 1
6-ice sword 1
7-ice sword 1
8-ice sword 1
for the much shorter animation sequence.
Thanks everybody!
Maybe I should note, everybody who still trys to find some improvements to make me redo this TAS again, will fail badly this time. Simply because, and I can only repeat, there is nothing else left to improve.
Here a example:
hero of the day wrote:
You mention that Ice Sword is faster than luminaire by ~110 frames. I was thinking this might be a faster strategy for the 2nd lavos battle:
1-luminaire
2-luminaire
3-ice sword 2
4-ice sword 2
5-HyperEther
6-luminaire
7-ice sword 2
Which is 1 turn less than you do.
or maybe:
1-luminaire
2-luminaire
3-ice sword 1
4-ice sword 1
5-ice sword 1
6-ice sword 1
7-ice sword 1
8-ice sword 1
for the much shorter animation sequence.
Although you wish it would be that easy, I must disappoint you, hero.
3 Reasons:
1. Ice Sword 1 is out of question because it deals far too small amount of damage to make it worth.
2. In order to use any kind of Ice Sword techs, you have to wait for Marle to recharge as well, which without Haste on her will cost double waiting time.
3. Because of the additional casts and the waiting time for them, Lavos will be able to mix in his own attacks (which I could skip by using Luminaire only), and those definitely delaying the total progress far more, and probably even killing Marle, since equipping her with the Prism Dress after inichi found Lavos' hand sickles skip, got pointless.
To make it short, Ice Sword 2 is a big exception and only worth to use on the shell, because:
1. Marle doesn't have to recharge for further attacks in that fight,
2. The Shell has 10000 HP, 1st Luminaire does 6000+ HP, so it doesn't matter if you use another Luminaire or Ice Sword 2 which only deals 4000+ HP, because it would still be enough to kill it. If using Ice Sword 2 will cause a additional cast in any battle, then using Luminaire is much faster.
Hope this clears everything up. :-)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
After picking this game back up again in an attempt to max out everyone and everything (meaning I'll have to beat the game 4 times to get 4 prism dresses, plus lots and lots and lots of leveling), I'm amazed at how quick this time actually is. Another yes from me.
I've never cared much for this concept. Starting with perfect stats just rubs me the wrong way.
I have 1 question though: How much time does replacing Crono's name with Satur take? It seems counteractive to me to cut frames everywhere else, but use time here.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
JXQ:
Renaming the main Character in RPGs is a exception for me. I always did it in any of them. The good thing is if you playback the smv only, you can still know who did play the game. It avoids confusion and is worth to do IMO.
Anybody saying this movie isn't frame-perfect just because of this would be the lamest thing ever. Compare the actual playthrough, and not this small confusion solver.
Anybody saying this movie isn't frame-perfect just because of this would be the lamest thing ever.
I agree
TAS's should aim for best time, but if you want to enter your name at the start or end (like in Streets of Rage 2) that definitely doesn't count.
My point was just that, in previous versions, I was told by you that the appeal of this run was:
"This movie beats the game as fast as possible with the best possible conditions you can get and this is the point of this movie. It's absolutely frame-perfect and I took very much effort for it."
By putting as much emphasis on "frame-perfect" as you do, I don't see why this exception is made. I just don't agree with that decision.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
In the AVI I downloaded, Crono does nothing except cast Luminaire over and over. The outer shell is wiped out with two Luminaires. Did I somehow download the wrong version? I am pretty sure it is not the old run, because the candy cutscene is skipped.
EDIT: Wait, I did download the wrong version, I see the AVI was updated twice in the space of a few days. Sorry about that.
He uses ice sword 2. A weaker sword would most likely not inflict enough damage to kill the lavos shell within 2 attacks.
Maybe you did notice that equipping Rainbow is much more impoitant for something else then only Ice Sword 2, as I equipped it in all previous versions which didn't use Ice Sword 2 yet.
To answer Brocs question, it's unavoidable to kill Lavos Cores left bit in 2 hits, because Rainbow gives 70% critical hit rate, which is the only way to go there. Using any kind of other techs on that bit would be much slower in the end, because of a far too long animation of them (like on Confuse).
Saturn, did you try to equip Crono with Shiva Edge? Shiva Edge does 4 times damage at critical, which is over 2500. It means you don't have to have Marle attacks the left core if you are able to get a critical hit on the first attack of Crono. It surely will save a time.
It occurred to me when I read your explanation about the importance of Crono's critical hit. Sorry I'm late to give a suggestion.
Thanks for your consideration.
Saturn, did you try to equip Crono with Shiva Edge? Shiva Edge does 4 times damage at critical, which is over 2500. It means you don't have to have Marle attacks the left core if you are able to get a critical hit on the first attack of Crono. It surely will save a time.
It occurred to me when I read your explanation about the importance of Crono's critical hit. Sorry I'm late to give a suggestion.
Thanks for your consideration.
Yes, I tried everything with Shiva Edge. It actually does ~2800 HP damage and would save around 120-150 frames because of Marles shot skip.
But no matter which lines (that are worth to use at least) I did in all Lavos fights before, I just couldn't get a critical hit of it at the needed time, because for the costs of being 4x damage at critical, the rate is pretty low (I guess like 10%). I probably even spent more time on the other smv which had Shive Edge instead of Rainbow, and still couldn't do it, at least without sacrifices that would be bigger than the time gained from the faster left bit kill. So Rainbow is just the only way to go, sadly.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Saturn wrote:
Maybe you did notice that equipping Rainbow is much more impoitant for something else then only Ice Sword 2, as I equipped it in all previous versions which didn't use Ice Sword 2 yet.
I knew that. I was just stating one of the reasons for equipping it.
