This Legacy of the Wizard route is quite different from Walker Boh's because it was founded on the idea that because running back to the house to change characters takes about 30s, a lot of time could be saved by using the same character to get multiple crowns. The game is designed to make this impossible (or at least very difficult/time consuming) in console play, however, it turns out that using some new glitches I found, Lyll can get three crowns (Pochi's, Lyll's and Xemn's) without needing the high jump boots or any previous item collection. This is important because it allows the game to be completed with only two character changes instead of four, and allows the time consuming trip to get the glove to be skipped. In the end, I cut 3:41 off Walker Boh's time.
-as fast as possible -uses glitches to save time -takes damage to save time
This is my first ever TAS; hopefully I didn't make too many rookie mistakes.
First of all, thanks to Walker Boh and everyone who helped with his amazing run. In particular, the discovery of the stationary missile glitch was very helpful. Also, the fantastic map and other information posted on the shrine site at http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/nes/lotw/index.shtml were very helpful. As has oft been noted, this is a tough game to speed run or TAS because of all the items you need, especially keys, money and scrolls. In real-time, the bosses are quite difficult; I never beat this game as a kid because I couldn't get past the fourth boss, Rockgaea.
The characters (in order of appearance):
Lyll -- the daughter; jumps high and can break blocks; her area is the top right dungeon
Mayna -- the mother; can fly and use crossbow to shoot blocks and magic key to open many doors; her area is the bottom left dungeon
Roas -- the son; needed to obtain and use dragon slayer after getting all 4 crowns
Xemn -- the father; can move blocks with glove, his area is the top left, but he spends this run drinking beer at home with...
Pochi -- the pet; not hurt by monsters, its area is the bottom right, but he likes beer too, since he sits this one out
This route is quite different from Walker Boh's because it was founded on the idea that because running back to the house to change characters takes about 30s, a lot of time could be saved by using the same character to get multiple crowns. The game is designed to make this impossible (or at least very difficult/time consuming) in console play, however, it turns out that Lyll can get three crowns (Pochi's, Lyll's and Xemn's) without needing the high jump boots or any previous item collection. This is important because it allows the game to be completed with only two character changes instead of four, and allows the time consuming trip to get the glove to be skipped.
The other major time saver is simply to get even more scrolls, and be a maniac about not letting scrolls time out, even during boss fights. My technique for this improved greatly as I progressed with the run; a future run could save even more time by eliminating the scroll lapses that appear in Lyll's, Pochi's and Xemn's areas.
Pochi's Crown:
I use Lyll here and get this crown first because there is a money bag and the knuckles on the way. It is important to get as much money as possible (I max out) now to make things easier in the next area. On the blue screen where the crown is, all of those chests will kill any player but Pochi with one hit. I survive by running back to the previous screen, manipulating one of the meteor showers to hit me so I can safely dislodge and kill the chest. A faster run might blast right by without killing the chest, but I need the key it gives me to get the crown. The Taratunes fight makes use of a glitch whereby bullets don't move if you hold opposing directionals at the same time. This kills monsters much faster because of the way this game detects collisions.
Lyll's Crown: Still using Lyll, now I need to collect some items. I fill up magic to avoid the gold/time hit associated with an Inn, then grab the crystal. I scroll up and head downward in Lyll's area, using a jumping glitch (walk off a ledge and press start to pause; hold jump when you unpause and you can jump from mid-air) I found to take the shortest route. I need to get a key chest, the wings, and buy the mattock (at a store not appearing on the rpgclassics map); I take a weird route here to maintain my speed scrolls. On the way back up, I pull a nifty trick to walk over a chest containing an elixir without opening it (which uses 2 seconds). I head back up and use the sphinx trick like Walker Boh's run, but use the right side for variety and to show off another air-jumping glitch which works if you're in the air lined up vertically with a block. Unfortunately, this glitch must be used sparingly as it eats a lot of time. I fall onto the invisible block before grabbing the crown so I don't "crash", which uses about half a second each time. Grabbing scrolls before the crown lets me kill Erebone faster, but I wasn't able to maintain the speed into the next section.
Xemn's Crown: I grab lots of items at the start of this area; the magic bottle and spike boots could possibly have been skipped, though magic is at a premium throughout this level, so maybe not. There are several block puzzles here that Lyll solves much faster than Xemn can because she can jump higher and break, rather than move blocks. I grab the magic bottle for use later in the "boring" section with 13 sets of 9 moveable blocks. I grab the bread below it so monsters give me scrolls instead of bread later. I take some longish waits to get scrolls in this area because they are very hard to come by. Both jumping glitches are used to pass the very high pillar with the breakable blocks at top. This requires pressing start 4 times; the first 2 to allow breaking the block, the third to air jump, and the fourth to slow my descent so I can enter where the block used to be without falling. This pillar would be impassable for Lyll without the highjump boots without using the glitches. The "boring" part is actually negotiated somewhat faster than Walker's run despite needing magic to use the mattock (the glove doesn't use magic). This, I think, is due to having the scroll from the treasure chest, which provides 60s of even faster speed than the normal max of 3 scrolls from monsters. I waste some magic in this section, but was so glad to have it done that I left it. I grab the scroll with the crown chest open to save 2s against my 30s scroll timer, enabling me to get home at full speed. Archwinger goes down pretty quickly with the same trick used for previous bosses.
Mayna's Crown: Okay, it's finally time to dismiss Lyll. Having Meyna start with the wings already in her possession is a big time saver and makes the first half of her area look pretty cool, IMHO. I got three scrolls very quickly and maintain them for the whole level and the boss, despite 2 inn stays, which I was pleased with. The detour to get the magic key is actually faster than going off to get another money bag and buying it. The inn where I equip the key is way out of the way, but there is no choice because I will need to go through lots of doors soon. I stay at an inn near the end because I need the magic to use the magic key and get scrolls just before the crown. My goal is to finish with 10 gold, which I meet, so I don't need any non-scroll items for the next stage. Rockgaea is killed in about 2 seconds without the knuckles, which makes it faster than using the knuckles (because of the need to equip them at an inn).
Roas' Quest: The dragon slayer quest is pretty straightforward. Roas takes the same route Lyll took (Sphinx trick on the right side with an air jump) to get up to the painting that goes directly to the dragon slayer instead of warping all around like the game designers intended. Keela, the dragon, dies in just over 3 seconds; I have to run away at the end of the battle or I will get killed by the fire when the dragon dies.
I used FCEU 98.16 to make the run.

Truncated: Accepted as an improvement. Congrats on your first accepted movie.

TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14875
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1579: Lord Tom's NES Legacy of the Wizard in 17:21.83
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Gonna watch later when I eat, but that big an improvement is dead sexy. If this is your first entry into the TAS community, I think you're gonna fit in just fine. Legacy's one of my favorite NES games ever, so seeing it beaten even faster is gonna be fun. I'll vote after I watch, but I can already tell it'll be a 'yes.' Edit: And 'Yes' it shall be. The mother's part was especially amusing, just for all the flying. As someone who actually knows the game fairly well and understands how stupid the item drop system is, I can say you pretty much did things as well as you could. I don't think this'll be the last improvement the game will get, and that actually makes me happy. I could see one or two improvements in the future. But for now, this is insanely good, I had a fun time watching, and I fully believe it should replace the current run. Good job!
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
I have little clue of what is going on here, but you can't go wrong with manic running and 3 minutes improvement.
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 563
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I second Truncated's comment ... no idea what was going on ... but I liked it :) Good job man, yes vote from me.
Active player (432)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Its a mixture of Zelda 2 and Alex Kidd :) Amazing improvement. Voted yes. Edit: Very nice zipping through the walls.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Lord_Tom
He/Him
Expert player (3274)
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Thanks for the props and the votes. I hope to do another run if I get enough improvements together; if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Route planning and item collection is very complex, so there's definitely still work to do. I can see another minute or so coming off easily, with maybe 15:30 as my predicted "perfect" time for the game, barring discovery of more productive glitches.
Dwedit
He/Him
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
Wow, watch these characters fly around at super high speeds! This is what TAS's are all about.
Morrison
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA
I like this game, and I used to play it on console :) Although I felt like some parts could have been done faster, the new route, new tricks and the improvement Walker's run definitely warrant a yes vote from me. Well played.
twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084
Active player (325)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
Great improvement, nice new glitches. I should note that, at this point, I think I like the old movie better. For one, it's more representative of the game, and for another, this movie feels unoptimized in places. Voting yes, of course.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14875
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [884] NES Legacy of the Wizard by Lord Tom in 17:21.83
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
This site made this game probably my favorite NES game overall, was great to see an improvement. My answer to the question "what game would you like to see played perfectly" has always been this, just because the amount of control a human has in item drops is so wildly unpredictable that I feel this can go well into the the teens. I also remember having a brief discussion on IRC regarding "how many characters does the game require?" I think we didn't spend much time thinking of a workaround to Pochi's invulnerable chest, and didn't consider that the magic elixir deal could be used for Xemn's level, so the amount of monsters that would need to be killed to constantly refill magic wouldn't be worth it. But here's this video! While I can't help but agree with CAD's sentiment that the first is more representative of the game, this is a well played improvement of a great game, and I'm glad it was published. I'm sure most would agree that the greatest future improvements will come from luck manipulation, but I do think there are still improvements to be made even in this video. For example, a lot of monsters were killed at the top of the screen(rather than the bottom), which resulted in money/keys, forcing you to wait for their stinky carcass to fly all the way to drop to the bottom of the screen so you could take their sweet sweet treasure. Good video, and eager to see future ones.
Lord_Tom
He/Him
Expert player (3274)
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Thanks. I agree that luck manipulation will be the key to any large gains in time. Apart from killing enemies at the bottom of the screen, manipulating to get crosses (which kill all monsters on the screen) at the start of a large screen with many monsters in your path could save a lot of magic, life, and time. The downside is that crosses are not all that common and once you get one it can be difficult to impossible to manipulate the item drops you want. On the topic of how many characters are required, I have found a way to theoretically beat the game with only two characters, Lyll and Roas, but it is useless in a speed run. The spikes that you need the wings to cross in Mayna's level can be crossed *very* slowly by holding the direction you need to walk and repeatedly pressing start to pause/unpause. Obviously, even if a special "low %" run were made, it would never be accepted because no one would want to watch that for 10 minutes. And finally, yes, it is sad that the new route is less representative of the game, and lacks Walker Boh's transcendant usage of the glove in Xemn's level. I examined any number of routes that included the glove and, even using the new glitches, none looked like they'd be close, timewise, because the detour to get the glove is just too long. With the glitches, though, Xemn can probably complete the level itself a touch faster than Lyll, since he wouldn't need the magic bottle and the inn stay required to equip it.