Topic by mmbossman

Posted: 5/9/2009 4:30 AM
(Edited: 5/10/2009 12:32 AM)

Post subject: Revival of rejected submissions: Suggestions taken here

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mmbossman

Experienced player (822)

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong

Due to recent topics, adelikat and I have discussed the idea of "unrejecting" a few movies, and returning them to the workbench to essentially get a second chance at publication. This will hopefully end some of the discussion regarding the supposed lack of attention that we as judges pay to the rest of the viewing audience. There are a few rules/stipulations/whatever: 1) You must submit the name of the movie and the associated submission number in this thread, with a reason why you think it should receive a second chance. 2) We will choose several movies to "unreject", based on how much support it receives in this thread. The number of movies that will be revived will probably be between 10-15. 3) A message will be posted in each submission thread after it is returned to the workbench. We will only pay attention to responses after this message, and won't pay attention to the votes, so if you want a movie accepted, make sure to state why in the thread! 4) This thread will remain open until the last day of May, 2009. On the last day of May, adelikat and I will decide which movies will be returned to the submission queue. 5) Soon afterwards, hopefully on June 1, the selected 10-15 submissions will be returned to the workbench, where they will remain until the last day of June. From there, you have one month to post your approval or disapproval of publication or rejection. Again: WE WON'T TAKE THE VOTING POLL INTO ACCOUNT, ONLY RESPONSES.

Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page

Posted: 5/9/2009 6:55 AM
(Edited: 5/21/2009 9:17 PM)

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alden

Player (120)

Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522

Cool -- it will be interesting to see which movies, if any, make the cut! Well, I would submit everything from ~~my vanity publishing page~~Gruefood Delight, but decided maybe to just list a couple. I tried to avoid movies that were cancelled, movies that have been brought up elsewhere recently, and movies that I like just because they're campy. EDIT: For ease of seeing what's been suggested, and to make sure everything has the submission number, here are the rest of the suggestions, along with links and the name of the suggester(s). Also, I didn't list myself but I support all these too. Let me know if I missed anything or messed anything up Might and Magic: Gates to Another World http://tasvideos.org/2015S.html "This is an enormous, convoluted games, torn to pieces. The action is a bit repetitive and hard to follow, but quite astonishing." (disclaimer: i have never played this game and still think it's cool) Suggested by alden, Mr. Kelly R. Flewin King's Quest V http://tasvideos.org/1950S.html "a classic Sierra game. The sound and graphics are not quite up to snuff, and the movie is somewhat repetitive, but an interesting watch." Suggested by alden, Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow http://tasvideos.org/1896S.html "The name of the game is a mouthful, and so was this movie apparently, which is similar to the published movie of this game's prequel. Stealth done wrong, or very, very right." Suggested by alden, klmz Coinless Cannonless Capless Super Mario 64 http://tasvideos.org/1572S.html Suggested by Solon, Kuwaga, Xkeeper Star Control 2 http://tasvideos.org/1493S.html Suggested by OmnipotentEntity, moozooh, LagDotCom 14% (or glitchless/legit Low%) Super Metroid http://tasvideos.org/2136S.html Suggested by Saturn, Kuwaga, Solon, OmegaWatcher, gia, Xkeeper Tails in Sonic 1 http://tasvideos.org/2140S.html Suggested by Kuwaga, Mitjitsu, eternaljwh, DarkKobold Solomon's Key 2 http://tasvideos.org/530S.html Suggested by Omega, Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Cheetahmen II http://tasvideos.org/2180S.html Suggested by Ferret Warlord Mario Kart Super Circuit http://tasvideos.org/872S.html Suggested by Spacecow Crystalis http://tasvideos.org/1184S.html Suggested by Kirkq, Derakon, eternaljwh N64 Super Smash Bros. 64 http://tasvideos.org/2074S.html Suggested by Kirkq or http://tasvideos.org/1379S.html Suggested by Mitjitsu Yo! Noid http://tasvideos.org/1409S.html Suggested by Mitjitsu Zelda Outlands http://tasvideos.org/1598S.html Suggested by Baxter, eternaljwh Madou Monogatari I http://tasvideos.org/1982S.html Suggested by DarkKobold, klmz Outrun http://tasvideos.org/1627S.html Suggested by DarkKobold, nineko Akumajou Dracula Mokushiroku Gaiden http://tasvideos.org/2183S.html Suggested by Sir VG, Ferret Warlord, klmz Abadox http://tasvideos.org/1168S.html Suggested by Rick April Fool's Day Submissions Suggested by andymac

I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs

Posted: 5/9/2009 10:46 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

http://tasvideos.org/1572S.html - Coinless Cannonless Capless Super Mario 64. I understand adelikat's rationale for rejecting it, but I thought it was both entertaining and technically sound.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 5/9/2009 10:53 PM

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Xkeeper

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850

alden wrote:

Well, I would submit everything from ~~my vanity publishing page~~Gruefood Delight, but decided maybe to just list a couple

Okay then, I submit everything else (aside from cancelled ones).

Perma-banned

Posted: 5/9/2009 10:58 PM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

Jesus, Barney DID get a vote! Everyone: make fun of Xkeeper :P

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 5/9/2009 11:10 PM

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Xkeeper

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850

Sticky wrote:

Jesus, Barney DID get a vote! Everyone: make fun of Xkeeper :P

Er? I was under the impression that not considering the April Fools submissions would be obvious. I guess not. TASvideos surprises me again.

Perma-banned

Posted: 5/10/2009 12:23 AM
(Edited: 5/10/2009 6:36 PM)

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Kuwaga

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248

Edit: Removed content so my post doesn't get counted twice

Posted: 5/10/2009 4:08 AM

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OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623

Bisqwit's Star Control 2 1. Interesting (not slow, boring, or repetitive) 2. Surprising (does the unexpected) 3. Skillful (handles awkward situations efficiently and creatively) Not to mention that it's very tightly optimized, has a beautiful sound track, and it one of my favorite games of all time.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 5/10/2009 2:08 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

I would propose SC2 as well (probably the best run rejected to date), but there were other reasons for its rejection, namely technical problems with DOSBox. It fell in a situation almost completely opposite to promoting new platforms the way adelikat does. I can see this movie being popular, though, so why not.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 5/10/2009 2:25 PM

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LagDotCom

Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK

I also mentioned SC2 when this was brought up on IRC, although in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner. I add another vote to this one.

Voted NO for NO reason

Posted: 5/10/2009 2:56 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Not a fan of suggesting my own runs for this, but since the 14% (or glitchless/legit Low%) Super Metroid run got rejected against the clear majority of the audience, and 90% of the Judge Guidelines, I thought it should be mentioned in the interest of the TAS community as a whole. Of course it will require to drop the bias against the author/Super Metroid/silly category restrictions most people disagreed with a bit, but trust me, it's worth it to make TASvideos a better place for the general audience instead of the judges themself. If it's not possible, then please disregard this post.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 5/10/2009 3:46 PM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2104)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

What's the technical problem with SC2? Desync? But we have already got at least one published movie that will always desync.

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 5/10/2009 4:26 PM
(Edited: 5/10/2009 6:37 PM)

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Kuwaga

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248

Arbitrary categories can be fun. I also vote for [URL=http://tasvideos.org/2136S.html]Saturn's run[/URL]. Not because I like it that much, but because I think it's a superbly executed run that can definitely be entertaining to sombody who has watched the other runs and wants more. I'd add something like "This is geared more towards the hardcore Super Metroid speedrun followers audience." to descreption. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Same goes for the [URL=http://tasvideos.org/2140S.html]Sonic hacks[/URL]. They're geared more towards hardcore Sonic fans and use widely accepted hacks. I don't see much reason to reject well executed and entertaining runs for really just secondary reasons. Newcomers won't be confused by too many categories if you add clear disclaimers. Rejecting runs with arbitrary goals seems like a strange cult. If the goals are arbitrary but well chosen to squeeze some more entertainment out of games, I don't see any problem with it. So, I also vote for the [URL=http://tasvideos.org/1572S.html]SM64 CCC run[/URL]. Lots of repetition and similar stars to other runs, so I didn't like watching it at all, but I can see how others would.

Posted: 5/10/2009 4:46 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

klmz wrote:

What's the technical problem with SC2? Desync? But we have already got at least one published movie that will always desync.

In a nutshell, the current state of DOSBox rerecording is, it might produce a desyncless movie, but it will almost definitely desync on any other computer, and on any other game distribution (and there is no ROMset for PC games, so finding a matching distribution can be a very hard task, considering their scarcity), so the author could be the only person guaranteed to watch/modify the movie on the emulator. All things considered, it was setting an unhealthy precedent of technical possibility of TASing on a new platform that turned out not to be one.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 5/10/2009 5:13 PM

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adelikat

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3584)

Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee

I wasn't aware my movie only syncs with 2.0?! There shouldn't be any sync differences between it and the new ones. I will look into that.

It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects

Posted: 5/10/2009 5:50 PM

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Dada

Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands

I think this is a great idea. I'd like to nominate submission #530: Ragowit's NES Solomon's Key 2 in 1:04:05. http://tasvideos.org/530S.html Rationale: for starters, it was given a very short time for feedback before being rejected by Bisqwit for being a poor game choice. The run itself was actually fine, and while I twice brought up its rejection to Bisqwit, I never really strongly pushed for it being sent back to the workbench, despite the fact I find this movie's fate to be very strange. It's a very enjoyable movie, because even though the movement is grid-based and not difficult to emulate in real-time, it's still baffling to see Ragowit use all the correct strategies right off the bat, "without thinking". I encoded an AVI of it and showed it to many other people, most of which hadn't played the game, and the response I got was generally very positive. It's a good run for a neat game that got good reactions (mostly off-site, but on-site too) but was still rejected after a rather short time for what I consider to be a subjective reason to a certain extent. That's why I think it should be put up for discussion again.

mmbossman wrote:

This will hopefully end some of the discussion regarding the supposed lack of attention that we as judges pay to the rest of the viewing audience.

While I think this is a very neat idea, I'm not sure if this addresses what I think you're referring to. Those were very specific matters. Just saying; I don't mean to start a discussion, of course.

Posted: 5/10/2009 8:04 PM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

LagDotCom wrote:

I also mentioned SC2 when this was brought up on IRC, although in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner. I add another vote to this one.

I would have also submitted (at the site) Chrono Cross, if there was a movie file to submit in the first place. Alas, there wasn't. But I stand by SC2's rejection decision. Not because of the movie / game, but because of the platform it was made on. The emulation platform wasn't just robust enough.

Posted: 5/10/2009 9:49 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

I'll second Saturn's Super Metroid 14% run, because I heartily disagree with the decision to have the 6% run obsolete the 14% run. I think an equivalent situation is Gia's Pokemon Yellow run and Primo's Pokemon Green run; both runs glitch through almost all the game, but do it in different fashions. Similar for Super Metroid 14% and Super Metroid 6%; they both beat the game, but 6% uses major glitches, and 14% does not.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 5/11/2009 4:12 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

I'd like to mention that the reason for starting this topic in the first place was to appease some viewers who were upset about a few particular runs being rejected. And none of those runs that they mentioned have been nominated yet. Food for thought.

Saturn wrote:

Not a fan of suggesting my own runs for this, but since the 14% (or glitchless/legit Low%) Super Metroid run got rejected against the clear majority of the audience, and 90% of the Judge Guidelines, I thought it should be mentioned in the interest of the TAS community as a whole. Of course it will require to drop the bias against the author/Super Metroid/silly category restrictions most people disagreed with a bit, but trust me, it's worth it to make TASvideos a better place for the general audience instead of the judges themself. If it's not possible, then please disregard this post.

You fought tooth and nail to get it accepted back when it was submitted, so why am I surprised to see you bringing that up again? It has no place on the site as its own publication, and was even linked to in the current low%. What more do you want?

Bisqwit wrote:

I would have also submitted (at the site) Chrono Cross, if there was a movie file to submit in the first place.

You know, PlayStation has a working rerecording emulator, so you could, redo the entire movie and submit it.

☣ Homepage ☣ Retired

Posted: 5/11/2009 6:26 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Comicalflop wrote:

Bisqwit wrote:
I would have also submitted (at the site) Chrono Cross, if there was a movie file to submit in the first place.
You know, PlayStation has a working rerecording emulator, so you could, redo the entire movie and submit it.

Windows-only emulator. :( :( :( :( I don't use a Windows machine at long periods enough to actually make any progress at such a movie.

Posted: 5/11/2009 6:27 AM

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sixofour

Banned User

Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 121

How does the emu fair in wine?

[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour [00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu [00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig? [00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*

Posted: 5/11/2009 2:57 PM

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OmegaWatcher

Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656

Comicalflop wrote:

You fought tooth and nail to get it accepted back when it was submitted, so why am I surprised to see you bringing that up again? It has no place on the site as its own publication, and was even linked to in the current low%. What more do you want?

I'll say what I want. I want the bias against Saturn get down. This site is supposed to be about TAS, and not bitter arguments against one user that you can't get along with. The low% was obsoleted by the glitched one CLEARLY to not accept this TAS. He may be an arrogant TASer, but he IS a TASer after all. Even I don't like his attitude, but he MADE a nice TAS. If you want to discuss about which TAS should be judged again, you're going to get opinions you don't like. I vote for Saturn's Metroid low% run. It's as fair as getting the "small only" run from SMW. I've been watching this site from a long, long time ago, I'm a fan of all your movies, but that attitude really made me sad.

My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ

Posted: 5/11/2009 3:43 PM

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Warp

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

Bisqwit wrote:

I would have also submitted (at the site) Chrono Cross, if there was a movie file to submit in the first place.

When you first made it, it had novelty: It used clever tricks for tool-assistance at a time where there was no working emulator with rerecording capabilities. However, by today's standard your run, while cool, is lacking. As you yourself point out in the run's webpage, it has obvious flaws and non-optimal play (much of which cannot be defended as being entertainment/speed tradeoffs). The goals are also a bit vague (your run is not even nearly as fast as the fastest possible would be).

Posted: 5/11/2009 4:22 PM

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LagDotCom

Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK

Omega wrote:

Ragowit's NES Solomon's Key 2 in 1:04:05.

I did the first 4 or 5 worlds of this (actually I wrote a bot to do it) a while ago, unfortunately he used the (E) version so our times were somewhat difficult to compare.

Voted NO for NO reason

Posted: 5/11/2009 6:02 PM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

About Comicalflop remark In my case, about Madoo Granzort in 09:18.15 I watched it on youtube, the runner said he already has a faster version so there's no point to apply for it here. But if I go by memory, I saw Madou Monogatari as an example and it really struck me because of the yes/no ratio, I didn't watch it though, somebody that did raise their hand? I mean isn't the author himself interested? Ah, I'll vote in favor of Saturn's movie too if it isn't impossible for the judges to have a spot/category for it. But I'd like to say that Pokemon Yellow and Green while similar are very different, if you want to group them by their looks good for you. Yellow is to (non japanese) Red/Blue as Emerald is to Ruby Sapphire, from my point of view non comparable, and Red/Blue themselves could count as half a generation after Red/Green, codebase-wise.