Fire n' Ice is the sequal to Solomon's Key. The goal of this puzzle game is to remove fires using iceblocks.
  • Movie plays back on: FCEUX 2.1.5.
  • Emulator originally used: FCEU 0.98.28 (I converted the .fcm to .fm2, but the resulting movie file was over 5mb large, compared to the .fcm which was 92 kb. So the submitted movie file is the .fcm due to the 150kb limit on movie files. The .fm2 did synch, however.)
  • Aims for fastest possible time.
  • Genre: Puzzle.

About the game

Fire n' Ice is a puzzle game, where the goal is to remove fires using iceblocks. Our hero, Dana, can create new iceblocks and move them around by pushing them. The game is not very complicated, I belive you will have no problems understanding how the game works simply by watching this TAS.

How this run compares to Ragowit's TAS

The biggest difference between this TAS and Ragowit's TAS is that this one is done on the U version of the game, while Ragowit's TAS was recorded on the E version. Besides the obvious PAL/NTSC difference between the two game versions, the only differences are:
  • The screen scrolls faster on the U version than on the E version (see level 3-10, for example).
  • Enemies that move, move faster on the U version than on the E version.
  • The final boss level is different.
Because of the first two points, most of the final levels on each world are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS.
In total, 24 of the 101 levels are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS. In most of the levels, the improvement is very minor and saves only a few frames, while in other levels, the improvement can add up to a few seconds.
They levels that have new strategies are: They are: 1-10, 2-4, 2-10, 3-3, 4-1, 4-2, 4-6 ,5-3 ,5-5 ,5-6 ,7-1 ,7-6 ,7-7 ,7-9 ,7-10 ,8-10 ,9-2 ,9-6 ,9-7 ,10-1 ,10-4 ,10-7 ,10-9 and 10-10 final boss.
It's hard to compare this run to Ragowit's run due to the version difference, but I've calculated that the improved strategies alone add up to about 30 seconds. I did not consider optimized movements, although I don't think there are many of them.
The in-game timer increases faster in the U version than in the E version. That's why my in-game time always is higher than in Ragowit's TAS.
Observant viewers might also spot what looks to be wall-hacking in a few levels. If you press left+right after you've performed an action, it will be visually performed again. Dana won't actually perform the movement again, but his sprite will move in that way. So if you move from left to right and then hold down left+right, Dana's sprite will continue running, even run inside a wall if there is one next to him. But again, this is just a visual glitch, and Dana doesn't actually move anywhere.

Closure:

The reason for the low re-record count is simply because this game is extremely easy to TAS. Once you have the strategy for a level planned out, you don't need many re-records at all to record it. I also used a lua-script that allowed me to use less re-records than I normally would.
If you find an improvement to this run, please don't hesitate to let me know. This game is very edit-friendly, so the improvement can easily be edited in, without any risk of desynchs.
I'd like to thank the following people:
  • Obviously Ragowit, for his TAS. Most of the strategies he used are still used in this TAS.
  • Wilson Lau for his FAQ on Gamefaqs. Ragowit said in his author's comments that he used about 90% of Wilson's strategies in his TAS. In turn, I used about 80% of Ragowit's strategies in my TAS, so Wilson's guide is really good, even for a tool assisted speedrun of the game.
  • Slotermeyer for his strategies on levels 2-4 and 2-10.
  • Aglar for his strategy on 1-10.
  • Xepher for his improvement on 8-10.
  • Omega for his encode of Ragowit's TAS. I used that encode a lot for comparisons.
  • Everyone else who has shown interest in this game!
It was fun making this TAS, and I hope you'll enjoy watching it.

Bisqwit: Submission updated ― author says the movie was improved by 36 frames.

mmbossman: I'm rejecting this movie due to viewer feedback and concerns regarding (lack of) entertainment value. Good luck on your next project Randil.

Nach: Here's the video to watch directly: (Flowplayer module removed) This video is a great Solomon's Key 2 walkthrough / Fire 'n Ice walkthrough.
Here's some post ending video with a bit of a surprise: (Flowplayer module removed)

adelikat Unrejecting this submission for consideration into the Vault tier

Nach: This movie was actually one of our most searched for movies a while back. Perfect for a vault category.

Brandon: Publication underway.

TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14847
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2281: Randil's NES Fire 'n Ice in 1:03:26.33
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
O.O SWEET! That old one can now return to its grave! Definitely will be watching this when I get home from work! Thanks Randil for making my day!
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Post subject: Re: #2281: Randil's NES Fire n' Ice in 1:03:33.2
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
NesVideoAgent wrote:
In total, 24 of the 101 levels are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS.
Which would those be?
Post subject: Re: #2281: Randil's NES Fire n' Ice in 1:03:33.2
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
eternaljwh wrote:
NesVideoAgent wrote:
In total, 24 of the 101 levels are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS.
Which would those be?
These: 1-10, 2-4, 2-10, 3-3, 4-1, 4-2, 4-6 ,5-3 ,5-5 ,5-6 ,7-1 ,7-6 ,7-7 ,7-9 ,7-10 ,8-10 ,9-2 ,9-6 ,9-7 ,10-1 ,10-4 ,10-7 ,10-9 and 10-10 final boss. I added this information in the author's comments too.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
>Dana won't actually perform the movement again, but her sprite will move in that way. So if you move from left to right and then hold down left+right, Dana's sprite will continue running, even run inside a wall if there is one next to him. Dana seems a bit gender-confused. Anyway: In round 7-10 it looked you could have ignored the enemy on the bottom right. It would have been consumed by the rising floor anyway later. This would make it possible to tackle the other enemies sooner. Is there something else you have to wait for anyway? The movie can easily be watched at 400% without missing anything. Just saying.
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Truncated wrote:
>Dana won't actually perform the movement again, but her sprite will move in that way. So if you move from left to right and then hold down left+right, Dana's sprite will continue running, even run inside a wall if there is one next to him. Dana seems a bit gender-confused.
Oops. It's supposed to be "his". Thanks for the heads up. I fixed it now.
Truncated wrote:
In round 7-10 it looked you could have ignored the enemy on the bottom right. It would have been consumed by the rising floor anyway later. This would make it possible to tackle the other enemies sooner. Is there something else you have to wait for anyway?
Hmm, good point, I might have overlooked this. I'll look into this as soon as I can, and get back to you.
Truncated wrote:
The movie can easily be watched at 400% without missing anything. Just saying.
Yeah... I think that is this game's biggest flaw, that it's very slow. I completely understand that a lot of people prefer to watch it at higher speeds. EDIT: Ah, okay, now I remember. This level is just like level 9-10 - after a while, the screen scrolls back to the place where it started (you can think of the level as a rotating cylinder or something, if that makes any sense). The fires aren't killed by the lava on this level. When the screen has scrolled back to the position it was at when the level started, that first enemy appears again at the top of the screen. So I have to kill every fire with ice blocks on this level.
Joined: 4/30/2007
Posts: 151
thanks man first tas in the longest time i actually am going to watch pretty excited for this
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3583)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4737
Location: Tennessee
NesVideoAgent wrote:
Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.28 (I converted the .fcm to .fm2, but the resulting movie file was over 5mb large, compared to the .fcm which was 92 kb. So the submitted movie file is the .fcm due to the 150kb limit on movie files.
However, the .fm2 would have only been about 92kb as well once it was zipped. EDIT: Correction, the .zip of the .fm2 is only 28k :P
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
NesVideoAgent wrote:
Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.28 (I converted the .fcm to .fm2, but the resulting movie file was over 5mb large, compared to the .fcm which was 92 kb. So the submitted movie file is the .fcm due to the 150kb limit on movie files.
However, the .fm2 would have only been about 92kb as well once it was zipped. EDIT: Correction, the .zip of the .fm2 is only 28k :P
Haha, I had no idea. :) That's a lot of compression for one file. Is it still okay to keep the .fcm as the submitted movie file? Which movie format is prefered on the site nowadays? If you want to switch to the converted .fm2, you have my permission.
Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 56
I am curious in 8-10 right at the end, why do you create a 3rd block on the bottom? is that faster than just removing the block next to the center wall and pushing the block you are left standing on?
i see...
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Xepher wrote:
I am curious in 8-10 right at the end, why do you create a 3rd block on the bottom? is that faster than just removing the block next to the center wall and pushing the block you are left standing on?
You are right about this. I just tried it, and it saved 36 frames. I've edited the improvement into the .fcm, now I will contact Bisqwit and ask him to replace the .fcm file for this submission. Thanks for telling me about this. :)
arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
This is what really happens when you combine fire 'n' ice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnHR4cMXiyM
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Georgia, USA
Nice vid arflech. However, "Thermite & Ice" must not have been as catchy a name for the developers of this game (let alone the fact that this video came out way after the game...) Anyway, I like this run enough. It isn't as exciting as the first Solomon's Key, but the solutions seem well done. It's annoying how long the game is, though: Lolo 3 took longer than this, but it had a little more excitement.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2103)
Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania
Randil wrote:
adelikat wrote:
EDIT: Correction, the .zip of the .fm2 is only 28k :P
Haha, I had no idea. :) That's a lot of compression for one file. Is it still okay to keep the .fcm as the submitted movie file? Which movie format is prefered on the site nowadays? If you want to switch to the converted .fm2, you have my permission.
Correction, the uncompressed fcm is only 12.7k :P See for yourselves: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1344772771/firenice-randil.fcm http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1472837767/firenice-randil.fcm EDIT: Oh, I didn't notice that the movie file had been updated. BTW, see how small my published fcm movie file is: http://tasvideos.org/1164M.html
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Oh hi thar, it's been a month since the last post. I'm working on a publishable quality avi for this game. I have a lossless avi with logo and TAS disclaimers here for reuploading to various intertubes. http://engelsish.org/avi/firenice-tas-randil-lossless.avi Be kind, this is my personal webserver, and it's a 231 MB file. Only download if you're going to reup to youtube or something, a reasonably sized file should be along shortly.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Oh hi thar, it's been a month since the last post. I'm working on a publishable quality avi for this game. I have a lossless avi with logo and TAS disclaimers here for reuploading to various intertubes. http://engelsish.org/avi/firenice-tas-randil-lossless.avi Be kind, this is my personal webserver, and it's a 231 MB file. Only download if you're going to reup to youtube or something, a reasonably sized file should be along shortly.
Thank you very much for the encode. I don't have a directors account on youtube myself, but anyone who has, has my permission to upload this to youtube (or any other youtube-ish site), as long as they don't try and take credit for the movie themself, or anything like that. :)
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Finally done, http://engelsish.org/avi/firenice-tas-randil.avi Please double check it to make sure it meets the encoding standards.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3583)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4737
Location: Tennessee
What a boring game. I certainly wouldn't want to watch a whole hour of it.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280
Awful game, but it's more optimized, so I voted yes.
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
does this run is improved by 30 second or 36 frame???
Post subject: Re: #2281: Randil's NES Fire n' Ice in 1:03:32.6
Editor, Active player (428)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
BadPotato wrote:
does this run is improved by 30 second or 36 frame???
TASVideoAgent wrote:
It's hard to compare this run to Ragowit's run due to the version difference, but I've calculated that the improved strategies alone add up to about 30 seconds. I did not consider optimized movements, although I don't think there are many of them.
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
I was confuse about bisqwit note at the bottom.. anyway I suppose that's now is about 30 second + 36 frames. So, cool improvement and enjoyable graphic glitch at some boss stage. Nice one! Now what about the the bonus stage? does there are something after completing until 15-10 ?
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
I watched this until the third world, then I decided to sleep instead. Very, very boring game to watch. I'm not sure whose idea it was to ever publish this game. But as this run is a better version of the previous accepted version, I'll vote yes for improvements. I'm sure it's more fun to play. Edit: Wait, what? The previous submission was rejected? Well, in that case I'd say no because this game is just not entertaining to watch IMO. It does seem technically great and I hate to shoot down a run of considerable length, but I think the game choice is just bad.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Acheron86 wrote:
I'm not sure whose idea it was to ever publish this game. But as this run is a better version of the previous accepted version, I'll vote yes for improvements. I'm sure it's more fun to play.
This run does not have a currently published movie, the time comparisons were in regard to a previous submission. Also, I was curious: If this game moves so incredibly slowly (i.e. 400% is still a watchable speed), then how is this TAS different from normal play? Luck manipulation? Or could someone, with some practice, achieve these same results? Note that I haven't watched it yet.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
It's a completely nonrandom game. This is doable in realtime. If nothing else, this is a video tutorial. I'm not sure how to vote. No thanks to me :( btw this is my favourite zelda game
Voted NO for NO reason