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Improved the current submission by 2203 frames.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.1.6 TASEditor
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Manipulates luck

Comments

Framewar bla bla bla...
Bosses are manipulated by entering their rooms in different frames. I didn't work out all possible patterns though.
If you are blinking from being damaged you can't scroll the screen up. This means even when you can damage boost up, you still have to wait until you stop blinking.
On the other side, there's a moving platform in clock tower level that starts moving down and left once you spawn it with screen scrolling. Fisker lost a bunch of frames waiting for it to go up again to be able to reach the platform above. I instead take damage to prevent scrolling too fast anf spawn this platform at the very moment when I'm over it already, so I jump & reach the upper platform easily.
Though this caused the last in-level elevators to start movig later. I mean, I make the screen scroll up til the end later, and it scrolled right then later too. The result is some lost frames because I had to wait while the last elevator goes up enough. I tried to scroll the screen so fast that I would be able to jump on that last elevator BEFORE it goes down. but a silly couple of pixels didn't allow me to reach the last platform that early D:
Much time was saved thanks to picking less R/R icons. Each icon costs 4 frames on he countdown.
Also, I reduced random lag by random jumps and taking damage, as well as by route changes.
Somewhere you could pick boxes to go further faster, where these boxes are on your way. But it almost always causes lag, and while you don't lose frames picking them, the throw animation is quite long.
But the greatest improvement was the Ghost Witch fight and the Crocodile battle. The former was killed before she disappears after throwing the second stone. And the croc just used another pattern in my run, that was much faster. Other bosses are improved as well, but no that much.
Comparison table will be done later.
There's a glitched red ball in the first boss room. If you fall along the left corner of the central platform and press Right and B, you would pick it. But you need something to boost you yout of the gap, use the rabbit boss or his water drops for that. The strategy of using thes ball along with boxes wasn't tested because the glitch was found after I already finished a half of the run, with manipalated bosses.

Thanks to

  • AnS for TASEditor (you won't believe your eyes when it's released).
  • fisker N. for strategical stuff I used here.
  • goofydylan8 for unleashing teh framewar.

DarkKobold: Accepting as the latest winner in the frame war.

DarkKobold: Delayed, the frame war continues.
feos: Cancelling due to new iteration with 2 authors we're working on right now.

TASVideoAgent
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Syncs on FCEUX 2.1.5 "old ppu"
  File: Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers 2.nes
CRC-32: 91e4a289
   MD4: 86a771cda8d877f98e28dfcb1e827a0f
   MD5: e78eb3226a9e09113be319fee1a84f4d
 SHA-1: a60ba28aca558fe3527d46b0df33bdd038d4c635
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Officially I am going to wait to watch it to vote yes, but you can count on a very strong yes vote here. You saved far more time than I ever would have guessed could have been saved. Good job.
Joined: 4/3/2005
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I don't see why this game deserves a separate 1-player run, but in any case it's pretty well played, so I'll vote yes.
No.
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Результат на лицо! Понравился твой TAS, Feos, впрочем как и другие твои :D Первого босса можно было убить быстрее, манипулируя им, тем самым завставив его стоять на верхней платформе при подбирании последнего ящика. Да и у кота-картежника можно уменьшить перебежки туда-сюда (у меня он ходил 2 раза) В целом хорошо сделал всё, а главное быстро.
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Чем ниже стоит первый босс, тем он меньше летит и тем быстрее кончается уровень. У кот у меня быстрее чем у тебя.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
XTREMAL93
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прикольный тас. Особенно нравится как ты дразнишь боссов.Yes vote
XTREMAL93
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Кстати у тебя ошибка в описании . Manitulates luck исправь на Manipulates luck
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feos wrote:
Чем ниже стоит первый босс, тем он меньше летит и тем быстрее кончается уровень.
Босс летит? куда? Ну тогда кота можно было сделать ещё быстрее, уменьшив его хождения до 2-х ;) Кстати в моем самом первом ТАСе кот вообще 1 раз ходит.
XTREMAL93
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fiskerN wrote:
Босс летит? куда? .
падает за пределы экрана после того как с ним справишься
mklip2001
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Wow, this is really smooth. The final boss still feels slow, but there's not much you can do about that. All the bosses from the ghost fight onward look very impressively-manipulated, though. There's noticeably less lag, and the trick about affecting screen scrolling via damage is awesome. Yes vote. Any interest in improving the 2P run of this game?
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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First... why the hell is there a bonus stage after the final boss... and secondly, why does the input end at the final boss and not finishing off the bonus stage? Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
First... why the hell is there a bonus stage after the final boss... and secondly, why does the input end at the final boss and not finishing off the bonus stage? Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Final input ends after the tokens are counted down because you have to hit start to move on. And the input ends there and before the bonus stage because it allows for input to end quite a few seconds early.
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goofydylan8, still waiting for your comment on the run. What was new for you? https://vadosnaprimer.github.io/ChipDale2_comparison.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
goofydylan8, still waiting for your comment on the run. What was new for you? http://feos-theos.narod.ru/ChipDale2_comparison.htm
The run is really solid and I enjoyed it greatly. I have sort of put the game on the back burner since my last update because I couldn't get the mummy boss to not lose my multiple seconds over Fisker N.'s run and especially over yours. Points I enjoyed. You handled damage boosts way better. The having to wait at the top of the screen after damage boosts was an annoyance that I am glad to see has been resolved. Your boss strategies are solid and it is clear you worked to manipulate luck on them. I'm glad that you were able to save back the time that Fisker N. lost on the last boss and then some.That red ball glitch on the first boss was weird and I really want to look into that. It would be cool if a boss fight could be improved by pulling glitch red balls out of a wall and attacking with them. Though with the fact that the rest of the run would have to be redone as well it would probably be wise to wait until there is another known improvement. Finally the optimization efforts are clear. Especially during the floating on fans portion it was clear that you worked to minimize tokens and get the best time.
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I lost 2 frames in 9-3 due to boss room start manipulation. And in 9-5 due to the same thing (probably I also bumped a box to avoid the icon). As for losses after Dylan's run, it was the lag I missed at the first time, and synced the levels so, after I noticed it was too late to resync. The only thing I don't understand yet is shorter Ball 1 room. Dylan made a lower jump there and it finished faster. In Ghost room 2 I bumped the solid platform and also didn't notice that. Also, the second boss has no randomness. I saved time only thanks to better optimisation of the last hit. It would be cool if someone dumps all patterns of bosses behaviour.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
I lost 2 frames in 9-3 due to boss room start manipulation. And in 9-5 due to the same thing (probably I also bumped a box to avoid the icon). As for losses after Dylan's run, it was the lag I missed at the first time, and synced the levels so, after I noticed it was too late to resync. The only thing I don't understand yet is shorter Ball 1 room. Dylan made a lower jump there and it finished faster. In Ghost room 2 I bumped the solid platform and also didn't notice that. Also, the second boss has no randomness. I saved time only thanks to better optimisation of the last hit. It would be cool if someone dumps all patterns of bosses behaviour.
The extra frames of waiting before bosses is expected as manipulation is key for them. I am not sure what your timing convention is but under my timing system we have identical times for the token countdown portion and ball throwing portion. Under my timing method (which is from first frame that any level item is visible to when the next level first item is visible from the black) both of our token levels take 407 frames and the ball portion takes 188 frames. The only thing that controls the ball portion is that you jump 2 frames before you can pick up the ball and continue jumping until you click the throw button. The boss patterns is definitely the next level of improvement for the 1-Player run, potentially including figuring out how to use the red ball glitch to speed up the boss. Figuring out the patterns probably wouldn't affect the 2-Player run but maybe it could speed it up slightly if the boss is in a better position to fall off the screen.
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Very good run, yes vote.
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I start any room at a first non-lag frame and count finishing it at the first lag frame.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Nice improvement, yes vote…
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
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goofydylan8 wrote:
The boss patterns is definitely the next level of improvement for the 1-Player run, potentially including figuring out how to use the red ball glitch to speed up the boss. Figuring out the patterns probably wouldn't affect the 2-Player run but maybe it could speed it up slightly if the boss is in a better position to fall off the screen.
First, there are NO boss patterns in ROM. All their moves are tied to timer (0x2D) and selected during the fight. The timer keeps ticking during Pause, so we may try to affect the bosses not (only) by changing the frame of entrance, but by pausing too. Second, the game contains more lost balls and stones, but all of them aren't accessible in 1-payer run. And only 1 (besides the ball in boss 1) can be picked with 2 players. Black circles mark balls, red ones mark stones. Link to video Thanks to Lomax for all this info!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
First, there are NO boss patterns in ROM. All their moves are tied to timer (0x2D) and selected during the fight. The timer keeps ticking during Pause, so we may try to affect the bosses not (only) by changing the frame of entrance, but by pausing too. Second, the game contains more lost balls and stones, but all of them aren't accessible in 1-payer run. And only 1 (besides the ball in boss 1) can be picked with 2 players. Black circles mark balls, red ones mark stones. Thanks to Lomax for all this info!
Does that mean it should be possible to manipulate the boss to drop two balls each round and other boss movements through pausing during the levels? If so that could be a solid amount of potential improvements. Good to know. I guess that means the boss one would be the only one to experiment with then. I can't imagine picking up the balls in the 2-player run would improve anything since they can just throw the second character but maybe the 1-Player boss could be improved.
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Started a 2-player run. Saved 39 frames at the 2nd level start. Nothing special to look at though, just fighting lag and doing optimisation. As for the pause trick, I hope you can pause before every boss move to make him make a different one, unpausing at different frames. This promises the bosses making the same (fastest) move all the way :D I don't feel like redoing my run, but you can take all my levels and just edit bosses, adding me as a co-author. Just fix the flaws I mentioned. And yes, make a smaller jump to finish the ball room faster. Try different options. Be sure to use taseditor branches.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Started a 2-player run. Saved 39 frames at the 2nd level start. Nothing special to look at though, just fighting lag and doing optimisation. As for the pause trick, I hope you can pause before every boss move to make him make a different one, unpausing at different frames. This promises the bosses making the same (fastest) move all the way :D I don't feel like redoing my run, but you can take all my levels and just edit bosses, adding me as a co-author. Just fix the flaws I mentioned. And yes, make a smaller jump to finish the ball room faster. Try different options. Be sure to use taseditor branches.
Good to see that the 2-player run is being improved as well. I haven't got to the second boss yet but I am hoping this will work out too. If I can manipulate movements I can save a few seconds on each bet. I am going to redo it and we will be co-authors. I wasn't sure whether or not it would be worth it but then I tested it out and it definitely is. You underestimated the power of the red ball glitch on the first boss. Improved that boss by 00:10.62 seconds using that glitch. So regardless of how the other bosses turn out we should have an extra 10 second improvement.
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One more note. If you press forward before the first frame of lag before the room you are about to enter, you get 2 additional pixels. I definetely want to see you current attempt! I guess you manipulated him to boost you out of the whole several times in a row, right? Did you abuse Pause button? Second boss has no randomness, as well as the third one. Anyway, test Pause there too. EDIT: I even think we shall set this submission to Delayed and wait for your improvements, then I will edit it. This means, keep me posted with each boss fight you finish, so that I am able to look for more improvements. PM is ok. Heh, I guessed this framewar would end up as a co-authorship XD
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.