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Posted: 10/23/2004 5:19 AM
Post subject: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
I think it would be interesting to see some people's takes on, say, the fastest possible Baal run under any (legitimate) conditions in a newly created game, and also the fastest possible solo Baal run in a newly created game. Equally interesting would be the fastest video from character creation to killing normal Baal (solo, in a single game), and the fastest possible video from character creation to killing Hell Baal (twinked, powered, and assisted as much as you please). I'm afraid I left all of my D2 accounts to rot (and expire) some time ago, but I would be endlessly entertained if anyone were to attempt this.
Posted: 10/23/2004 6:01 AM
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (123)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
I wouldn't like watching twink/powered character winning game. Cheat = no
Posted: 10/23/2004 6:50 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
those movies would be way too long. even if you exploited the exp-level splits and got some great drops, it would take a very very long time to do some of that. a solo creation to hell baal would be like 3 days of film. a solo from creation to norm baal would be like 7 hours. a solo hell baal from wp to throne would only take like 3 minutes, tops. enigma barb/pally or a tele-sorc with some nice static field and fire spells would tear anything and everything apart. so yeah, thats that.
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Posted: 10/23/2004 8:47 AM
(Edited: 11/15/2004 7:29 AM)
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Zurreco, you misunderstood my post. For character creation to Hell Baal, you can twink, power, and assist the character in any way possible. Going from creation to Hell Baal solo would be very repetitive. That being said, your upper limits are incorrect. Here are some times I, personally, have completed these tasks in: Solo, creation through normal Baal 45 minutes (assassin, patch 1.09) 135 minutes (druid, patch 1.10) Note that the above category has never been something I've done seriously. I never saw the point in leveling / progressing legitimately if you didn't have to, provided you've already beaten the game. Still, getting these times requires you to be clever. Assisted, creation through stepping through DESTRUCTION'S END in the Hell Worldstone Chamber 6 minutes (patch 1.09) 25 minutes (patch 1.10) The above times are decent but not optimal. With enough people helping you, this could probably be done in 2 minutes or less in patch 1.09, and 15 minutes or less in patch 1.10. Solo, Hell Baal run in a new game 105 seconds (paladin, patch 1.10) Note that there is no sufficiently powerful elementalist of any class that can approach this speed because of immunities, and no melee character can deal damage fast enough. Cooperative, Hell Baal run in a new game 95 seconds (paladin/sorceress, patch 1.10)
Posted: 11/13/2004 1:13 AM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Assisted, creation through Hell Baal
you must be kidding. what would we see in such a movie? your char standing in the corner and waiting for a townportal. not that entertaining at all.
Posted: 11/13/2004 6:08 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
I fail to see how there would be any standing in corners waiting for portals at all. Maybe you are thinking of some inferior strategy?
Posted: 11/13/2004 8:14 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
He means being rushed through acts 2, 3, and 5. Usually, you kick back in town while higher levels give you way points/critical spots.
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Posted: 11/14/2004 2:43 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
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Do you find pleasure in being enigmatic? Why don't you just tell us how you did it? That would be more entertaining that just reading numbers. What's the difference between creation and new game in this case? Does any of them refer to creating a new character?
Posted: 11/14/2004 5:09 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Truncated wrote:
What's the difference between creation and new game in this case? Does any of them refer to creating a new character?
From creation means starting at level 1, new game starts from whatever level you want with uber equipment. See, when you play DII online on battle.net, you either make a new game or join an existing game, and you keep your character across games. You can have multiple characters, but you can't play them at the same time. In single-player, loading up the game is like making a new game; all the bosses, monsters, etc, respawn, ready to be harvested for exp and items.
Posted: 11/14/2004 5:44 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
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That's what I thought, but those times just seemed too unrealistic to fit that. Thanks in any case. I hope xebra will tell us how it's done.
Posted: 11/14/2004 8:41 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Truncated wrote:
That's what I thought, but those times just seemed too unrealistic to fit that.
Well, you also get "waypoints" that, once activated, let that character warp back to and from town at will, in any game they're in. So you can start a "new game" and warp straight to the third level of the final dungeon, if you've activated it in a previous game with that same character.
Posted: 11/14/2004 4:30 PM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
"Solo, Hell Baal run in a new game 105 seconds (paladin, patch 1.10)" Does that mean going from Act 5 town, into the waypoint to Worldstone Keep level 2, walking all the way to level 3, then the Throne, kill the monsters that Baal spawns, go through the portal, and kill Baal? Because I sure as hell can't figure out how that can be done in 105 seconds.
Posted: 11/14/2004 7:50 PM
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Itstoearly
Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 173
Location: Bethel, VT
I think maybe a more interesting movie would be a multiplayer game, with everyone starting a new character, cooperatively beating all 6 quests in act 1. Getting a stratagy an 8 people to do their parts well would be fun to watch, I imagine. I'm not talking about just getting on bnet and recording a game. I mean, you know who you're playing with, and they know their roles, and you all work together. This could be an interesting competition, because you don't get to manipulate luck intentionally.
Posted: 11/14/2004 8:56 PM
(Edited: 11/16/2004 4:27 PM)
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Zurreco, again, maybe you are thinking of some inferior strategy? Truncated, I am "being enigmatic" because there is no reason to reveal my strategies. No one has expressed an interest in actually doing this. As I said before, it would require an unprecedented level of organization and cooperation amongst many people. Locke ... first and foremost, let me get a laugh at your expense out of my system. Walk? AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ;)
Posted: 11/14/2004 10:23 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Locke: Said Paladin is using enigma, an armor runeword that grants the user teleport. The paladin is also probably using a maxed out Fanatacism/Blessed Hammer set up (known as Hammerdin), along with a really burly act II mercenary. For a time of 105 seconds, the player is also using a map hack to get from the Worldstone Keep 2 way point to the Throne. Xebra: Rather than simply laughing at people, why not explain your times. Also, you should probably inform them that these won't be the most legit runs out there.
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Posted: 11/15/2004 5:45 AM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Does "Assisted, creation through Hell Baal" mean that you can have people waiting at crucial points in the games already, or do you have to start the games yourself? I can't see any other way to get this done so fast.
Posted: 11/15/2004 6:02 AM
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Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
So... we're proposing a movie of the world's fastest normal rush? I've been on enough rushes to not be impressed unless there's some really ridiculous stuff going on. The rusher(s) would have to supply insane equipment, and it would have to be done on hardcore. Otherwise, I've seen it all before.
Posted: 11/15/2004 7:25 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Zurreco: The times I mentioned were done without maphack and without illegitimate/hacked gear, and, indeed, without a "maxed out blessed hammer" setup! Be more creative. (Additionally, your memory needs some refreshing. Heaven forfend you should ever put points in fanaticism on a hammerdin.) Booda: I specified that the assisted rush should get from creation to defeating Hell Baal for a reason. Don't forget you can't set foot in the Normal/Nightmare/Hell Worldstone Keeps until level 20/40/60 respectively. There is forced leveling in patch 1.10, which is why it takes so much longer than patch 1.09. The real question is, where and when should this forced leveling take place, and how should it be accomplished? Also, until the rushee gets to Hell, the rusher's equipment would be largely immaterial, and would make very little difference even then, as long as it was "sufficient." The true nightmare in orchestrating a 15 minute zero to Hell Baal run is logistical. If you in fact were referring to "Solo, creation through normal Baal," then obviously you are not permitted any "twinks," that is, you may not recieve gear or assistance from others, though you may certainly create new games as you deem necessary. Doing it in hardcore would also be counterproductive as death can be used as a shortcut. EDIT: I suppose I really should change the assisted run to "creation through stepping through the DESTRUCTION'S END portal in the Hell Worldstone Chamber."
Posted: 11/15/2004 8:25 AM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
I worded that poorly, I should have said "travel" rather an "walk", but even so, exactly how long does it take to kill all of those monsters that baal spawns, and how long to kill baal himself? I just can't see it being done that fast. Edit: I mean, even in 1.09 with a maphack and teleporting, cheated items, super-fast casting speed, and all level 50 or so skills and killing all of those spawned monsters pretty much instantly, I just don't think I did it in less than two minutes. Edit 2: Changed a word because it sounded better. ("poorly" instead of "badly")
Posted: 11/15/2004 5:35 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
For what it's worth, I personally would really like to see the "Solo, Creation through Normal Baal" run.
Posted: 11/15/2004 8:14 PM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
How about a Diablo 1 run? For example a 3-player ironman run through normal mode. That is extremely difficult to do, and I would love to watch that. Maybe with audio commentary by the players. That would be awesome. The "ironman" part means you can never ever go to town after going into the dungeon.
Posted: 11/15/2004 9:55 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Can you even run in Diablo I? I've had the game for years and I could never find a way to run... It makes the game very... umm... yes.
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Posted: 11/15/2004 10:00 PM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Okay, a walk then. A Diablo 1 3-player ironman walk. It would be many hours long, but with audio commentary, switching between the players' viewpoints, etc, I would be all over it.
Posted: 11/15/2004 10:44 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
You can run in the expansion.. well, in town at least.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/16/2004 3:39 AM
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Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
What I'm asking is, where does the entertainment value come from? Unless you pull off some ridiculous tricks to complete the game in an unheard of amount of time, it's just going to be like playing Diablo... except less than that. I'm sure it can be done, even if it requires a lot of organization, but would it really be that fun to watch? Some notes: - More characters in the game means more experience. Any time monsters are being killed, there should be 8 characters in the game. - The "target" character must be present at the time something is killed to get the experience for that kill. Radius is something like the edge of the screen in hi-res mode. - Experience is divided among all characters present at the kill. Fewer characters means more experience for the target character. Target character should only have someone present if it's too slow for him to kill things himself (is there a way to accurate measure experience/second?) - The division of experience is based on level. The higher the level, the bigger cut of experience you get from a kill. If the assisting characters are too high above the target character, he won't get much experience. Assisting characters should be as low level as possible but also as powerful as they could be. Good equipment needed. EDIT: One more note: - Experience is also scaled by the difference in level between the character and the monster. This is why a level 24 character barely gets anything in a normal Baal run, while a level 25 character gets all the experience.
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