Topic by p0rtal_0f_rain

Posted: 1/8/2010 4:00 PM

Post subject: Mega Man X3 - 100%

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

Okay, there has already been a 100% completion of Mega Man X and X2, where everything has to be collected. To say the least, 8 container hearts and all upgrades from blue pedestals. This game consists of 8 container hearts, 4 robot riders, about 4 upgrades from blue pedestals, 4 chip upgrades from pink pedestals, Zero's Sabre, and the special golden armor. The game has limited X where he can only pick one chip upgrade from a pink pedestal which will haunt him for the remainder of the game, meaning he can't get the other three. But on the first Dr. Doppler stage, he can get all 4 chip upgrades and the golden armor in one go. However to do that, his health must be maximum. Since robot ride armor does come into play, maybe I can use that just for entertainment? Let me know what you guys think on that. Last but certainly not least, most of my run will consist of all frame-by-frame techniques set by FractalFusion back in 2006. It's a long road and it could take countless days, but my research on this will be insane. Bart Simpson gets the boot - sorry, Sami.

Posted: 1/8/2010 4:04 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

There's some route discussion in the existing MMX3 thread. It might be best to keep discussion in general to that thread instead of splitting it, since the only real differences between this and the any% run will be stage order and that this run will make some minor detours during the stages.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 1/8/2010 4:21 PM

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

My route is planned totally different. And if I went to the other thread, this could create confusion for some.

Posted: 1/8/2010 5:21 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I made a movie of this 5 years ago, should still be relevant though, the gameplay is awful, but the route is probably worth looking at, I'll see if I can find it. Edit: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1577969754/Me%20sucky%20sucky%20graveworm-mmx3.smv Would seem as though it's from October 2005. I'll take a look at it and see if I can spot any improvements to the route to be made. Just watched it, this is truly terrible, the tactics on bosses and such are terrible, but the route looks pretty solid I believe. I guess the file was on microstorage already (or else I wouldn't have it), but I couldn't find it in the Mega Man X3 topic. So I just reuploaded it, and wasted some space. Forgive me.

Posted: 1/9/2010 3:35 AM

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

Don't call yourself "sucky", try hard! ^_^

Posted: 1/9/2010 12:26 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

This might be one of the first TAS'es I did, and probably the first game I finished. I certainly didn't bother to, or even know how to optimize it. I think that's the original name of the file as well, I just didn't bother to rename it. But as I stated I don't think there's anything wrong with the boss order, just the execution of the stages and bosses.

Posted: 1/9/2010 4:56 PM

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

Before I watch your WIP, did you start off with Tunnel Rhino? I figured that would already be an advantage because that stage has a reserve tank and a container heart. I want to save the grid-map helmet upgrade for last, because once X appears on any stage, he can't move for a second or two and a green grid-map display above his head. It does take a lot of frames. The way Rhino's container heart is laid out, it consists of a spike pit with a big rock above it. X can't just dive head-first into that spike pit or it's game-over. I am sure it is possible to take damage from an enemy just to endure through this spike pit and get the container heart. The downside is that X has no enemies on the other side and has to use death, going all the way back to the beginning. The other way is to defeat Volt Catfish to get Triad Thunder and breakthrough a wall at the Neon Tiger stage to get an X-Buster upgrade from a blue capsule. Then go back to Rhino's stage and use the combined weapons/upgrades to knock the rocks down so X can get to the container-heart and the grid-map helmet. Rhino's weapon is needed to break through a wall at the Neon Tiger stage to get X-Buster upgrade, a wall in one of the hangars at Toxic Hornet's stage to get the first of 4 robot-riders, the mega-cubes at Blizzard Buffalo's stage to get another container heart from there, and possibly a crumbled wall at Crush Crawfish's stage where a heavy cannonball machine crashed through 4 or 5 floors - another container heart is there, too.

Posted: 1/9/2010 5:59 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I'm not sure what you're on about, but if you don't want to watch the .smv, I could roughly explain it to you I guess. The boss order's basically 1 - Tunnel Rhino - To get the Drill Weapon for the Heart on Blizzard Buffalo's stage. Skipping the Heart and the Helmet upgrade. 2 - Blizzard Buffalo - For the Leg upgrade, and the Ice Weapon, both save time on Neon Tigers stage. 3 - Neon Tiger - Doing this stage before Blizzard Buffalo would possibly let you reach the Heart faster, but you'd miss out on having the Ice for the mini boss and the leg upgrade when going for the sub tank. 4 -Toxic Seahorse - You need either the "F" Ride Armor or the Arm Cannon upgrade and the Ice to reach the "K" Ride Armor upgrade, using charged Ice is significantly faster. Also the Ice is a very effective choice against the mini boss of this stage. 5 - Gravity Beetle - Completing this stage gets rid of the battle event right before the Bit/Byte room in Blast Hornets stage, and completing Blast Hornets stage gives you access to the Heart in this stage. Revisiting Gravity Beetles stage for the heart is significantly faster than the event in Blast Hornets. Blast Hornets weapon is very effective against Gravity Beetle, but most likely using the charged X-buster is the fastest way to rid of this boss. 6 - Blast Hornet - The best weapon to use for this boss is Crush Crawfish's weapon, unfortunately you need a Ride Armor for the Heart in Crush Crawfish stage and Volt Catfish stage as well, thus Blast Hornet is at this point the most relevant choice. With Gravity Beetle beaten the event in this stage is removed, and any time after completing this stage you can get the Heart from Gravity Beetles stage. I guess using the X-buster for this boss as well would be a suitable choice. 7 - Volt Catfish - This stage needs Gravity Well for the Armor upgrade, and it's preferrable to have at least the Ray Splasher for Vile to make sure he explodes, a Ride Armor is also needed to gain access to the part of the stage where the Sub Tank is located. 8 - Crush Crawfish - Volt Catfishs weapon is needed to reach the "H" Ride Armor upgrade, and a Ride Armor for the Heart. 9 - Revisiting Gravity Beetles stage, just to pick up the Heart. 10 - Revisiting Tunnel Rhino's stage, picking up the Helmet upgrade and the Heart, to avoid having more than 1 map-helm-screen. And then of course the Sigma stages to complete that. The boss order is quite logical, and I can hardly find any flaws, the one closest would be Neon Tiger before Blizzard Buffalo, but with the Leg upgrade and the Ice being useful in that stage I can't see that happening. (Also, both the Leg upgrade and the Arm Cannon upgrade increases the speed of which you climb ladders. Having both makes is faster than walljumping, even in shafts where you can alternate walls before the 1 frame stop animation.

Posted: 1/9/2010 7:31 PM

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Satoryu

Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272

Unless there's some glitch out there, that is the route to use. Really, nothing can be done differently to your advantage.

Posted: 1/10/2010 2:46 AM

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wicked

Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil

megaman x3 is the best imo. i was waiting to see the full movie but seam his one is missing something. bit and byte shoul be destrouyed (not beaten) before reaching the final stage (this will affect the boss) but talking about the beggining of the game. im worried about the order of the bosses. isnt faster killing the bosses with the corret weapon? -know the order is messed because of the itens (tanks and hearts) . but why Neon Tiger before Toxic Seahorse? is this realy the best "route?"

Run..Run...Run.....

Posted: 1/10/2010 3:11 AM

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Satoryu

Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272

You don't get anything for killing Bit and Byte, just a different boss. That doesn't count as a percent. Tiger is done before Seahorse because you need the upgraded buster to get the Ride Armor. And how would Tiger benefit from Seahorse, anyway?

Posted: 1/11/2010 4:53 AM

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Dream

Joined: 10/7/2008
Posts: 12

True, Bit and Byte don't count, but would it be acceptable to get the alternate boss as entertainment trade off? Either way, I'm looking forward to this run.

Posted: 1/11/2010 10:14 AM

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Atma

Former player

Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803

My opinion on a 100% for X3 is that Bit/Byte should be killed, and Vile should be left alive (if fought at all) instead. While this prevents you from getting Zero's saber, and thus disallows easily clearing the remainder of the game, I feel that it'd be too similar to the existing run to be worthwhile to produce, instead merely adding time for additional (unused) abilities. On the flip side, this would allow the viewer to see 2 bosses normally not seen in a TAS, and the remaining bosses be crushed in a more interesting way than "slash with the saber twice," and also has the benefit of giving the best ending.

Posted: 1/11/2010 5:20 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

I think Atma's stance makes the most sense here.

...and possibly a crumbled wall at Crush Crawfish's stage where a heavy cannonball machine crashed through 4 or 5 floors - another container heart is there, too.

If memory serves, the Tornado Fang just bounces off of that; you need a Ride Armor to break through.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 1/11/2010 6:54 PM

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Satoryu

Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272

I really don't like that train of thought. Never did with X2, either. To me, the X2 100% run is really a 90% run because it doesn't get Zero's parts, something you can collect. Likewise, the Z Saber in X3 is something you collect, but unlike the plot items in the previous game, you can actually use this in X3.

Posted: 1/11/2010 7:08 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

I guess it depends on if you count Zero as a percent himself then, 'cause you lose him when you get the saber. :p More seriously, if only to differentiate itself from the existing run, IMO a new run should kill Bit and Byte and leave Vile alive.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 1/11/2010 11:06 PM

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kchrules

Joined: 11/11/2007
Posts: 242
Location: the 1950s

I posted this in the original X3 topic. Since this is 100% I think it would help.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrM_3ptJ7Hg Not by me

Currently working on: -Possibly the Wily Tower (Mega Man the Wily Wars)

Posted: 1/14/2010 5:17 AM

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wicked

Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil

is this realy the best route taken? its looking painfiull see megaman shooting the bosses with his x-buster. by the way, as mentioned above, killing zero is obligation to get the zero saber, and also for saving time in the game.

Run..Run...Run.....

Posted: 1/15/2010 3:15 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4138)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

wicked wrote:

is this realy the best route taken? its looking painfiull see megaman shooting the bosses with his x-buster. by the way, as mentioned above, killing zero is obligation to get the zero saber, and also for saving time in the game.

Shooting bosses with the X-Buster is still faster than revisiting stages over and over again, which would look even more painful. Also, keeping Zero alive could also count as a 'percent', and also counts for 'best ending'. Not having the saber also gives us more entertaining boss battles in the rematches.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 1/15/2010 11:08 PM
(Edited: 1/16/2010 4:46 AM)

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wicked

Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil

Mothrayas wrote:

wicked wrote:
is this realy the best route taken? its looking painfiull see megaman shooting the bosses with his x-buster. by the way, as mentioned above, killing zero is obligation to get the zero saber, and also for saving time in the game.
Shooting bosses with the X-Buster is still faster than revisiting stages over and over again, which would look even more painful. Also, keeping Zero alive could also count as a 'percent', and also counts for 'best ending'. Not having the saber also gives us more entertaining boss battles in the rematches.

i guess the secrets makes the game more intresting, keeping zero alive just changes the end (he appears running back in the highway with x). i vote for secrets and speed in this game, thats why i mentioned the route

Run..Run...Run.....

Posted: 1/16/2010 3:35 AM

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Sir_VG

He/Him

Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

Mothrayas wrote:

Also, keeping Zero alive could also count as a 'percent', and also counts for 'best ending'. Not having the saber also gives us more entertaining boss battles in the rematches.

Seconded. Not only because it would be more interesting, but given that you'll have to get the Gold Armor, you'll have to do some MAJOR charging just to get up to saber level anyways.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 1/17/2010 5:43 AM

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Rolanmen1

He/Him

Experienced player (751)

Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic

Well, i don't actualy think that Zero counts as a percent, but that's what i think. Anyway, if you will the saber you should use this trick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE6zAmU0cvg

Posted: 1/18/2010 9:38 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1938)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3246

The saber double jump can also be used when just coming off a wall jump. See http://tasvideos.org/MegaManXTricks.html for more details. If anyone has any questions about that page, let me know. Oh, and about categories. This isn't SDA, so the author can do as he so pleases.

Posted: 3/19/2010 1:55 AM

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GlitchMan

Experienced player (620)

Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 443

Oh! I have a possible boss route that I can do for this game: 1. Tunnel Rhino: have to get Tornado Fang for the X-Buster Upgrade (Neon Tiger) and Heart Tank (Blizzard Buffalo) 2. Blizzard Buffalo: Frost Shield for Neon Tiger's miniboss and Dash Upgrade for mid-air and upwards dashing and having this with the X-Buster Upgrade allows for faster ladder climbing 3. Neon Tiger: X-Buster Upgrade 4. Gravity Beetle: have to complete this stage in order to get to Blast Hornet to bypass the long wait sequence for that stage 5. Toxic Seahorse: Acid Burst is required for the miniboss in Blast Hornet's stage 6. Blast Hornet: need the Chimera Ride Armor in order to have access to the ride armor selection in Volt Catfish and Crush Crawfish (basically just going in boss weakness order for the last two) 7. Volt Catfish: use the ride armor to get the E-Tank 8. Crush Crawfish: use the ride armor to get the Heart Tank Most of this route is still based off boss weakness order. Only two revisits will be required for the stages (Gravity Beetle and Tunnel Rhino), Unless I find someway to bypass the long wait sequence in Blast Hornet's stage without having to beat Gravity Beetle then it's just revisiting Tunnel Rhino's stage. I'm interested in Mega Man X TASing now! I was also hoping to improve the run for the January 2006 run of this game. It has been well over four years and there hasn't been a single improvement for this game ever since! There were new tricks that were discovered that I haven't seen in the current published movie. If no one else is working on this game, I would be glad to! In fact I have already started the intro stage of this game (I'm at the part where Zero crashes through the ceiling). I just have to improve the sub-pixelation for when X arrives at that room. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/593276198/Mega%20Man%20X%203%20%28US%29.smv

Posted: 3/19/2010 12:29 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4138)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

That's the same route as was posted earlier in the thread, (8th post), only with Toxic Seahorse and Gravity Beetle swapped around. (I don't think having either done before the other matters, though) Btw, I can't wait to see more WIPs. Are you going to kill Vile and/or get the Z-Saber? And what about Bit and Byte?

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.