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Movies for NES Mega Man 2


#49071833918125633 - Mega Man 2 - Zipless v2.0
mm2_zipless_2.fm3 (174kB fm3 movie [NES])
Uploaded 2018-08-10 22:43:08 by warmCabin (11 files)
For NES Mega Man 2 (5 files)
In 04:14.78 [15312 frames], 14598 rerecords)
219 views, 9 downloads
Version 2.0 is here! Rather than push onwards through the Boobeams and boss rush in my v1.0 movie, I felt motivated to start over and fix all my little (and big) mistakes. Currently all the timesaves are grouped into stage saves and boss saves, but I may do a more detailed analysis later.


(Link to video)

History of this Movie

To understand all the timesaves in this run, I think it's important to understand this history behind it. While the previous run is called v1.0, it's actually not the first attempt I made at creating this movie. There's a previous version, which we'll call the beta version, that I started on a couple years ago. It was simply a TASed version of the realtime route I was doing at the time, back when I was blissfully unaware that it's faster to do Metal before Flash. That's right: there's a TAS file sitting on my hard drive where I go to Flash before Quick and Metal. This was called "mm2 TAS.fm3", and the file that would become v1.0 was sarcastically named "mm2 TAS ADVANCED route.fm3" for a while.

Because this run was so old, I did it the old fashioned way: savestates, frame advance, and an actual controller in my hand. I also had this weird obsession with keeping the 90-frame screen transitions perfectly clean, so I was always trying really hard to find the first actionable frame of every room. I believe I switched to the TAS editor around Flash Man's stage, but I'm not sure.

When making my ADVANCED route (v1.0), I tried my best to salvage what inputs I could from the beta. I had to redo the bosses (with the exception of Air Man), but most of the other inputs could be salvaged. The beta stopped at Metal Man, so all inputs after that in v1.0 were new. Here we will see just how suboptimal these beta inputs are.

Air Man

  Stage save: 50
  Boss  save: 38
  Total save: 88
The boss fight is perfect, aside from a lag frame which I don't think you can avoid. Watching the 2010 TAS's boss fight taught me a lot on how to achieve this.

Compared to the previous movie, you may be surprised there are 50 frames to save in the stage, considering I don't go for any different strats.

Well, for starters, I do go for one different strat: rather than turn around and spawn the bird to the left @3250, I can keep going and shoot the next two eggs without jumping. The second one requires me to shoot a bullet out ahead of time to alter the collision behavior, something I learned from the 2010 TAS. No idea why this works, but it's cool! However, this only saves 2 frames. My new turnaround subpixel tech also ends up saving a frame...which is lost due to boss fight RNG manipulation. What a shame.

The rest of the timesave comes from two main sources: better horn jumps, and better falling.
You can do the horn jumps without stopping if you jump a little earlier, something I did not know in the beta.
The falling tech is even more embarrassing. Somehow, I had it in my head that a 1-frame jump is always optimal for falling off ledges, when in fact a much higher jump often saves more time; this is a misconception I carried with me through most of v1.0 as well.
But an even more embarrassing timesave comes from that one screen transition hidden behind clouds...I simply was not holding left during it, because I didn't realize I could move. This alone wasted about 20 frames.

Quick Man

  Stage save: 36
  Boss  save: 18
  Total save: 54
It turns out my calculations were wrong! Doing this stage with Air actually saves 6 frames over doing it with buster. I failed to account for the fact that you can switch weapons 10 frames earlier at the start of each stage. However, the buster route still ends up saving time, because of a cool damage boost tech I stumbled upon. By standing still for a couple frames, I'm able to take damage from the final Sniper Joe such that I recover from hitstun while in the air, saving me an extra jump. I was unable to get this trick in the air shooter route, because the mech gets defeated sooner and the sniper takes longer to fall down. This difference actually puts the buster route ahead by 1 frame!

I also saved time by defeating each hothead without any additional jumps (although 2 jumps had to be a frame or two higher), and jumping over the first Sniper Joe. My turnaround subpixel tech saved a frame, but due to a frame rule that apparently exists, I couldn't defeat the first mech any sooner. What a shame.

For the curious, I've left in a branch of the air shooter route: branch 8. Branch 9 is the frame Quick Man gets defeated in the current route. If you know of a way to do this boss fight quickly with air shooter, I'd love to hear about it!

If you dig around in the branches, you might find some inputs for Metal Man, but I'm putting those on hold until I'm confident in the Quick fight.

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#48877130464294925 - New subpixel optimization tech - proof of concept
flashman_3frame.fm3 (130kB fm3 movie [NES])
Uploaded 2018-08-02 04:16:27 by warmCabin (11 files)
For NES Mega Man 2 (5 files)
In 01:32.75 [5574 frames], 120490 rerecords)
359 views, 25 downloads
I've discovered a new subpixel optimization technique! It doesn't always save time, but a subpixel's a subpixel. You never know when an extra couple might come in handy.

When you fall off a ledge and need to turn around, it may seem like you should turn around and brush up against the edge of the wall to get the best position. This is not always the case. Sometimes, you can actually be a few subpixels inside the block; that is, the ejection routine (which runs when you push in the opposite direction) puts you just a bit further out than the first position where you can actually fall. By moving past the wall on the last possible frame, you can save around 0x10 subpixels, depending on your subpixel alignment.

Sometimes, this maneuver may not be possible at all, and it will be better to brush up against the wall and get a X8.00. You just have to try it for each jump.

Note that this does not work if you encounter a left-facing wall (you are holding right) that transcends a screen border; you will be ejected to X8.00. Right-facing ones seem to be OK, though.

To demonstrate this concept, I've utilized it to shave 3 frames off the current TAS (although in reality it's 1 frame + a door frame rule). I simply copy/pasted their inputs and executed proper turnaround subpixels on each relevant jump. I think this stage nicely illustrates all the quirks of when this technique is useful and/or possible. Branch 1 is the current TAS. Branch 2 is with my technique. Each branch is marked on the frame Flash Man dies. I highly recommend you watch this with RAM watch on (X pixel: 0x0460, X subpixel: 0x0480) to see exactly what's going on.

Fun fact: Much like ladder fidgeting, I discovered this while doing some playaround/TAS fidget stuff. I thought it might look cool to have Mega Man turn around at the last possible frame, but then I realized I was actually landing at better positions when I tried to do that! If you're working on a TAS, I highly recommend you do some silly stuff in your run. You never know what you might accidentally discover!

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#48553221790148505 - Mega Man 2 - Zipless: Part 2.5
mm2_zipless.fm2 (1.27MB fm2 movie [NES])
Uploaded 2018-07-18 14:10:42 by warmCabin (11 files)
For NES Mega Man 2 (5 files)
In 24:41.09 [89012 frames], 27003 rerecords)
554 views, 22 downloads

(Link to video)

I found a way to make the Crash Bomb glitch work, but I don't like it. I had to take an extra hit from the final Sniper Joe, which leaves me with an extra Item 1. Although, it'll certainly come in handy for the alien fight, so I guess it worked out (Didn't know about that secret ledge when I set out to make this movie).

It's likely I'll be saving yet another Item 2 in Wily 2, if I'm right that using Wood on the drills will be faster. If I do, being able to get good MadWidth from the unavoidable bullet would be extremely useful. I've had little luck with this myself, but do let me know if you can find a way to make that happen. Bear in mind that this is a rough draft v1.0 type of movie, which will be scrapped for a better version that attempts to fix all the mistakes. Therefore, the frame you might find here will almost certainly not work in v2.0.

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#47641550972708655 - Mega Man 2 - Zipless: Part 2
mm2_zipless_part2.fm3 (185kB fm3 movie [NES])
Uploaded 2018-06-07 12:48:04 by warmCabin (11 files)
For NES Mega Man 2 (5 files)
In 24:40.58 [88981 frames], 26163 rerecords)
1113 views, 53 downloads
A continuation of my zipless run. I didn't fix any mistakes, just pressed onwards towards the finish; I figure I'll probably make some more mistakes, so we can fix the old and new ones alike in version 2.0.

This movie plays until the Boobeams, which have me stumped! Going by finalfighter's extremely handy lua script, I can't seem to get a large enough MadWidth. I have to damage boost through that one sniper joe bullet at frame 7720, which essentially gives me 2 choices for MidWidth and MadHeight: 22 or 24. I can only seem to make these variables smaller the further to the right I go, although, frustratingly, you'll see them cycle through some super good ones like 56 before they settle on their final values (frame 7757).
These outlier values seem like a good place to start, but I may also try to take damage in the fight.

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#47393292247559483 - Mega Man 2 - Zipless
mm2_zipless.fm3 (150kB fm3 movie [NES])
Uploaded 2018-05-27 08:28:17 by warmCabin (11 files)
For NES Mega Man 2 (5 files)
In 19:45.96 [71275 frames], 19378 rerecords)
1330 views, 63 downloads
(Note: this file is for the Japanese version, Rockman 2.)

This is a popular category to run RTA (I myself run it), but I've never seen a TAS of it. I believe there are two reasons why:

  1. The zips in Mega Man 2 are some of the coolest tricks in speedrunning. Who would want to remove them??
  2. The ancient SDA rules make this category a bit ambiguous.

Regarding the first point: Well, I think zipless shows off a few neat things not seen in a regular TAS. For instance, WOODMAN'S ENTIRE STAGE.

Regarding the second point, the rules of this run are as follows:

  • No zips
  • No delay scrolls
  • No screen wraps
  • All other glitches are fair game

This might more acurately be called, "No Major Glitches." But whatever.

Encode

(Thanks, feos!)

Blunders

The Quick Man fight

I'm pretty embarassed about this. I take damage twice... Not for no reason, mind you. I do it to manipulate Quick Man's position and take advantage of i-frames. But I still feel like this fight could be a lot tighter. I could use some advice.

Frame data:

     (1st Hit)
     40 (+20 frames)
     20
     20
     20
     20
     20
     20
     20
     58 (+38 frames)
     20
     24 (+4 frames)
     22 (+2 frames)
     39 (+19 frames)

     Total time loss: 83 frames

Crash Man's Stage

In the opening room, I didn't realize you could jump up the first ladder without getting hit, so I utilized a unique buster strat. But apprently we've known about this for 15 years, so...

Minor Mistakes

These don't seem worth redoing, but I'd surely fix them if I did redo the run:
  • Shitty RNG for Air Man's last shot
  • Didn't think to shoot the drills in Metal
  • I don't think I handle mech damage boosts quite right
  • Why does no one ever change weapons in the boss rooms?
  • Made an unecessary landing in Bubble
  • Didn't test many Item-1/2 routes for Crash

Good Things

Buster-only Quick Man strats

For some reason, I thought Quick Man was immune to the air shooter when I was doing this stage. But ellonija mentioned that the old TASes used to use the air shooter? It sounded pretty dope: use air to kill all the enemies, just like RTA, then defeat Quick Man with some super finicky and cool air shots.

But I've done the math, and I believe my uninformed buster-only route is faster:

Air Shooter and Buster both do the same damage to Quick Man, and a perfect fight with both weapons would take the same amount of time, so that doesn't figure into our calculations. As I defeat the mechs at the end, I spend a total of 28 frames not holding right. The menuing to switch from P to A takes 45 frames, so the question becomes: Is it 17 frames slower to do all those jumps when shooting the fire head guys?

Well, Mega Man spends 246 frames in the air during that section. If we assume the air shooter route spends all those frames on the ground (which it doesn't; there are several jumps in that section), we can do some worst case math.

     air speed = 01.50
     ground speed = 01.60
     difference = 00.10 (that's 1/16).
     00.10 * 246 = 15.375
This means the buster route ends up 15.375 pixels behind the air shooter route. On the ground, we can make those pixels up in 14.47 frames, call it 15.

So, in this situation which is worse than reality, the buster route is still 2 frames faster than the air shooter route. That is CLOSE! But in reality it's even faster-er, so I believe the buster route is optimal.

Ladder Fidgeting

Not sure if this is a known trick, but it's a technique that provides a way to ascend slightly on ladders in some circumstances. When climbing ladders, shooting any weapon locks you in a shooting animation in which you cannot gain height. Unlike Mega Man 1, letting go of the ladder and re-grabbing it does not cancel this animation. However, there is a trick to gain a pixel or two that I call the Ladder Fidget, which can be performed as follows:
  1. Do the following 3 frames of input: A, nothing, Up. This is a frame perfect ladder fidget.
  2. Check if your Y position is higher up.
  3. Repeat the process until the animation ends, or you see you've stopped gaining height.

I can't figure out a pattern for when you'll rise and when you'll fall--It's all trial and error at this point. But I believe vertical velocity is being stored from before. It looks pretty silly when executed, and in fact, it started off as a "siliness tech" to pass the time in Crash Man's stage, until I realized Mega Man was actually ascending!

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