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jlun2 wrote:
Amazing art Ryuto! I only have one question though. Will it play back deterministically or will it suffer possible desyncs like the last one? ................ Well, I think I do have a request. Can you please draw my favourite kirby character, Marx Soul? It would be really nice if it could be included in the run.^^
The run won't play back deterministically because of desyncs caused by resetting. And yes, I'll draw Marx Soul for you and anyone who likes Kirby. It seems to be hard to draw, because of its width, but would be cool if can draw.
Patashu wrote:
Hah, as long as you're doing requests and don't mind, how about a head or head+shoulders view of a zoid? Any of these will do, they're all well known, though the most recognizable would be the liger zero, shield liger and command wolf. http://www.kotobukiya.co.jp/kotobukiya/pk_zoids.shtml (When you're on the page for one, mouse over one of the boxes for a different pose, click on the box art to see it in high def.)
I'm afraid I draw only Nintendo stuff in the run. I'm considering drawing non-Nintendo characters in Brain Age 2 TAS that features the piano minigame, but I'm busy with the current project and don't seriously plan to TAS the game for now.
Patashu
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Ah, that's fine then.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
Perhaps you could try drawing Marx's face, or a little less than the whole thing. Also, for a few more recommendations, you could draw try doing Ganon or one of the older Final Fantasy characters like Cecil/Terra (unless older FF games are being considered non-Nintendo games). I think a good picture of Ganon from LttP wouldn't be too hard to replicate, if it fits a number.
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IMPblackbelt wrote:
Perhaps you could try drawing Marx's face, or a little less than the whole thing. Also, for a few more recommendations, you could draw try doing Ganon or one of the older Final Fantasy characters like Cecil/Terra (unless older FF games are being considered non-Nintendo games). I think a good picture of Ganon from LttP wouldn't be too hard to replicate, if it fits a number.
Drawing Marx is going pretty well and seems to be possible to draw the whole thing. I haven't decided which Ganon to draw yet. I think Ganondorf from Wind Waker would be recognizable, but he may be very hard to draw like Ho-oh. If I fail to draw that, I'll draw Ganon from LttP (or give up to do). EDIT: Done! [URL=http://img97.imageshack.us/i/marxsoul.png/][/URL]
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Oh Thanks alot!^^ Also, good luck with your run! I hope to see it soon!
Skilled player (1530)
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Eventually I chose Ganondorf from Wind Waker and drew him successfully. He was recognized as 63, which is one of the most difficult numbers to recognize. It was pretty lucky. [URL=http://img31.imageshack.us/i/ganondorf.png/][/URL]
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Nice! I'm really looking forward to the run now! ^^ So Good Luck!
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Tompa
Any
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It's Roy!
Skilled player (1530)
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Yes! Drawing a character from Fire Emblem was terribly hard. I hope everyone who plays SSBM can recognize him as Roy. I'm considering drawing Marth but I have no idea how to do it.
ALAKTORN
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I knew it was a Fire Emblem character without every playing the game (nor the SSB series) :P
Skilled player (1530)
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The better run I'm working on is nearing completion. I'm trying to come up with a cool or funny title for the movie now, but I have no ideas for that. Could somebody help me?
Skilled player (1706)
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Ryuto wrote:
The better run I'm working on is nearing completion
Congrats!^^
Ryuto wrote:
I'm trying to come up with a cool or funny title for the movie now, but I have no ideas for that. Could somebody help me?
Art Alive!
Skilled player (1530)
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jlun2 wrote:
Ryuto wrote:
I'm trying to come up with a cool or funny title for the movie now, but I have no ideas for that. Could somebody help me?
Art Alive!
Thanks! I got an idea from your suggestion. How about Art Academy? I think it is more famous than Art Alive. On my Brain Age TAS I uploaded to Nico Videos, I saw some comments, "Do it on Art Academy!" I'm still thinking about what title would be good for the movie. Any opinion?
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Skilled player (1530)
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Although I uploaded the finished run to YouTube, the submission will be delayed. The movie has a picture that Nintendo doesn't release yet, so I have to replace it with other one. Sorry about that.
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That was a great movie! You really inspire me! Maybe I'll do something like that in the future with another game! You're Awesome! Btw, what picture are you refering to that Nintendo doesn't want out?
Skilled player (1530)
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Keldeo. It's a Pokemon who appears in Pokemon Black and White.
N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
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Ryuto wrote:
Keldeo. It's a Pokemon who appears in Pokemon Black and White.
Er, but your avatar is of...you know... What's the difference?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Skilled player (1530)
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Because Nintendo doesn't release it yet unlike Snivy. In other words, most of people who play Pokemon Black and White don't know that the Pokemon exists in the game.
MarbleousDave
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I haven't seen a new TAS of this game in a long time. I would like to see drawings of characters of a TV show about certain equines if you know what I mean.
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I am currently working on a DS bot with the hopes of being able to play this game. I should be streaming my progress on twitch later this week if anyone is interested in watching.
Post subject: Answer frequencies
Emulator Coder, Player (68)
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I noticed something interesting about how the game picks questions for you to solve. The screen only fits 6 characters including the operator and the equals sign, and if you hack the game to accept a different longer answer the 7th character gets cut off. This led to a theory about how the game picks a question. My thinking was that the game would never give you a question which would result in needing 7 characters. This would limit the possible answers since the problems are limited to addition, subtraction, and multiplication. A question like "12-8=4" would work, but "5x10=50" would be invalid. There is no way to write a question with an answer of 50, so 50 would never be a possible answer. I found there are only 40 numbers from 0-99 that fit this criteria: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 24, 25, 27, 28, 30, 32, 35, 36, 40, 42, 45, 48, 49, 54, 56, 63, 64, 72, 81 To test this theory I wrote a simple bot to run through 100,000 questions and record how often it sees each answer. Here are the results: Larger You can see there is a set of numbers which were never picked to be an answer, and the ones that were picked match up to my list. This seems pretty convincing that my list of numbers is valid. Edit: Here is the data set if anyone is interested in looking at it
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Following this thread, someone HAD to go and completely break the recognization system. Why me? Nobody else was up to the task, I had the physical game of Brain Age 2, and it spiraled downwards from there. Note that for the purposes of these tests, all of this works on a physical 3DS AND DS (tested on both by downloading the games onto a flashcard ordering the game legally from amazon) This is important for micro500's DSbot. For the purpose of clarity, the word recognisition will be nicknamed as simply 'recon' for the rest of this post. Recon delay You can delay recon of numbers by simply keeping on tapping the top left of the touch screen. You can tap anywhere, through top left is best because it doens't write anything. How the recon system works Alright, now we're going to get into the depth of the subject. You must be wondering: how does the game recon numbers? Let's start with models and keypoints. Keypoints and models When you write something on the screen, the game will automatically try to find certain points, keypoints, that form a structure: this structure is what I will refer to as a model. However, unlike a lot of number recon games, Brain Age doens't stop at finding keypoints: for it to recon a number, at least 50% (rough estimate) of the space between keypoints must be filled.
The keypoints and model of the number 4.
The first picture shows the model completely 'filled' (see below) the second shows the keypoints in the number 4. All of these keypoints HAVE to be there for the game to start to recon a number. The third picture shows what's happening in the background: the little black lines are where the game has to recon at least 50% 'painted' space for the number to be registered. Now, these models are very flexible: the space being keypoints usually doens't matter, it's the angle that does. This means you can make numbers as big and as small as you want. A good analogy would be: open Paint, pick a circle model and place it. Notice how you can extend the circle, make it flatter, make it bigger? The same thing can happen here. When I said the game had to recon at least 50% of the space between keypoint painted, that actually isn't true. There is a mechanic in the game of 'mercy', where if you draw something with all keypoints and with I think 25% or more space filled, the game will recon that as a number and let you move on. This is what I call 'bias' in short. Meaning, if you would have 4 as an answer to your current question, as long as you would place keypoints to emulate the model of a four and fill at least 25% of that model, the game would recon it and immediately let you move on.
Three examples of abusing bias: these answers are all completed with three pixels or less
You might be wondering, what if we get two models at once and fullfill the conditions for them to be recon? Here's what happens: - if you are in a question that requires two numbers, both register: this is only if these two numbers do not use one another keypoints, otherwhise they will register as a single number. - if you are in a question that requires one number, if the two models do not use each other's keypoint, you will not progress (get '?'). If they use one another keypoints, the biggest model is used; this is very important. Now, for a little problem. http://i.imgur.com/j2TnAXy.png
Can you explain how did the 0 transform into a 4 by just adding a single pixel?
For a little hint, check out the third picture: I colored the parts that are used in the 4 transformation. For the answer, keep reading. First, why did this particular drawing transform a 0 into a 4, and not give us a '?' ? This is because the 4 uses part of the 0's keypoints, which, as we stated before, makes the game only recon the bigger model, which was, in this case, the 4.
The model highlighted (note that I was wrong here: drew an extra keypoint)
Since we filled just enough of the model, the game recons that as a four and immediately accepts! The bias helps in this case, which means we have to fill less of the model to get the answer. In short, to get an answer, you need: - The corresponding keypoints - 50%+ of the model filled (around 25%+ with bias) And to finish up, an extensive list of every number with their keypoints, models and smallest possible recon, along with some explainations.
The number 0, model, keypoints and smallest model
Yeah.. This isn't the 0 we all know and love. Note that in this case, the three points are supposed to be connected, but I only connected two here. As long as the three keypoints form a triangle, it's okay.
The number 1, model and keypoints
Not much to say here. The only difference between this and 7 is the length of the top bar. To make sure you get a 1, just get the upper segment inclined downwards.
The number 2, model, keypoints and smallest model
Two is surprisingly abusable. The model can be bended to very large proportions - it's up to you to test it out.
The number 3, model, keypoints and smallest model
The length of the very middle keypoint compared to the top and bottom left keypoints doens't have any influence.
The number 4, model, keypoints and smallest model
This four is rather misleading: you can't actually draw closed fours in this game, for the simple reason of the layout of this model.
The number 5, model, keypoints and smallest model
Five is not like micro500 tried to emulate it: rather, it has a little part at the end where you need at least two lines to form a 'spiked curve'. This makes it also relatively hard to manipulate.
The number 6, model, keypoints and smallest model
Six.. ugh, six. It is the hardest number to recreate - on par with three, it doens't have a good small model, and its recon is very fickle: with this model, you can have a variety of things this can be recon as, such as a nine.
The number 7, model, keypoints and smallest model
Seven is a very easy number. Because of the model flexibility, is is recon by.. that's right, a single pixel! If you want to make sure it is distinguished from 1, just make the lower segment inclined to the right.
The number 8, model, keypoints and smallest model
Eight and nine are rather particular. Instead of functionning on keypoints like other numbers, the largest segment of the model will act as a base (in red) for eight, you have to go away from the top, go back to the base while hitting the base model, go away again, and hit the last keypoint. This makes eight rather tricky. Thankly, it is very small to emulate in a small model.
The number 9, model, keypoints and smallest model
Nine is 'eight for dummies'. It works the same way as 8, but much less complicated: you only have to make one curve this time, which makes it easier to emulate consistently. This is the base of this research. I am sure that this game could be abused even more, but I think this covers 90% of the game's number recognisition system. Have 'fun'!
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Link to video (If you wonder what my browser is, it's Maxthon: what all the cool kids use after Opera became bad) So something I found but didn't document here is that models are also recon by what we call 'edges'. The best way to explain this, is to look at the 1 model. See where it starts and where it ends? That's the two edges of the 1 model. We need these edges in proper position for the 1 model, and at least two keypoints that can be assigned to this model. Edges are placed basically where your line starts and ends, and it's the reason stupid things get recon. Now, remember how I said model detection was also based on lines? Using line-breaking (a long known trick,) we can manipulate where edges are placed. After that, we have a 1 frame window to place the edge wherever we want on the touchscreen. What does this do? It manipulates the number recon without even drawing a single pixel. Yes, you read that right. This is what I call 'breaking edge', since it both breaks a line and manipulate edge placement. Why does this happen? I have no clear idea, but a speculation: Since we draw offscreen and never actually draw any more pixels beside that one pixel, the game confines the model of whatever number we're doing to that pixel only (remember, model dimensions are modulable down to a single pixel!). Following that, that edge gets placed, but not drawn: the game still continues, thinking we made a model succesfully (two edges, enough keypoints - as long as it's drawn, the game recons it as a keypoint, and it takes keypoints off that single pixel - and in the right arrangement) and the breaked edge stays at its location, only mattering for its angle at which it is placed. The game stills recons it, and assings it to a number based on its location and which model it makes, but still considers it to be in the pixel we just made (since edges can't logically be on non-drawn locations.) Think of it like a rubberband :)
In this picture, the green dots are both edges, while the orange dots are keypoints. The bright green dot reprensents where the game thinks the second edge is, while the blue dot represents where it actually is. Note that from the second keypoint to where the supposed edge is, the same angle is kept. This is the most logical explaination I can provide if we follow my speculations of models, keypoints and edges; though the game could work completely differently.