Bimmy and Jimmy at it again, this time they brought guns.
This is my long awaited two player contra run. It is 948 frames (15.8sec) faster than architorture's submission. It is 552 frames (9.2sec) faster than Genisto's 1 player run after adjusting for the ROM change. (Otherwise it is 2168 frames faster than Genisto's).
It is also faster than a "theoretical" 1-player run (a run that includes the jumping glitch of lv1 and other tricks) by 294 frames. Because of this I think it should obsolete Genisto's run rather than be published along side it.

New Tools

Like my Gradius movie, I used a macro patch for FCEU to allow me to spit out a specific button combo with a single click of a button. This was used to optimize the spread gun in the base levels.
I also used a "multi-tracking" patch which allowed me to record input for a short segment, then record over it with additional input. This allows me to record each player separately. This was extremely useful for the base levels and boss fights.

Weapon Choice

For levels 5-8, the ideal weapons will be a spread gun for each player plus 2 rapid upgrades each (Rapid upgrades increase the speed of the player's bullets).
However, dual spread guns is sub-optimal for the two base levels due to lag, the inability to get 2 rapid upgrades for player 2, and the limitation of the number of bullets on the screen. The 2nd best weapon in the game is the basic weapon which can shoot 4 rapid fire shots. I use a 1 spread, 1 regular weapon set up until level 5.

Rom Choice

Like Architorture's 2-player run and my Pacifist run I use the Japanese version of Contra. This allows me to skip the between level screens saving about 1667 frames over the course of the run. The Japanese version of the run also has more interesting level designs; particularly lv5 & lv8.

Improvements

Optimizing the Spread Gun.

The hardest aspect of making this run is the spread gun. Normaly, it shoots a spread of 5 bullets out in different directions. However there is a 10 bullet limit on the screen (per player). By strategically angling the spread you can cause 1 bullet to leave the screen before the others. If you fire at this moment, you get a single bullet. If you repeat this process you get a single line of bullets firing at a particular direction. This is especially exploited in the base levels. This single line technique was used by Genisto.

Single Spread optimization

In the base levels, Genisto shoots enemies in order to achieve the single spread. Once you have this single spread, you must continue to fire in order to maintain it. This gives you seemingly little control over when bullets hit their targets. However, with a lot of planning you can slowly alter the formation of the bullets. You do this by firing 1 less than the number of "rows" you have. (If you have a spread of 5 rows, shoot 4). Then wait some frames to fire the final row. This will pull one of the rows back. Repeat the process for each row, and over the course of many spreads, you can change the position of each bullet. By planning ahead at the beginning of each room, I was able to get each bullet to be 1 frame apart and hit the targets at the first possible opportunity. This saved a good deal of time in each base level.

The level 3 jumping glitch.

This was used extensively in my pacifist run and used once in genisto's run. By moving left or right while jumping you can cause the player to jump a few pixels higher or LOWER by manipulating the vertical scroll. This can be used to reach platforms normally unattainable. Also, with this run I used it to lower all other jumps, resulting in 1-2 frames saved for each jump.

Boss Fighting

Bosses can only lose 1 hp per frame. If you hit him point blank with a spread gun, it will do 5 damage over the course of 5 frames. The trick then, is to do a steady amount of damage rather than blast him with two spread guns. Bosses can be overloaded with incoming damage that some bullets will pass right through them (you will see this happen occasionaly in the run. It can't always be avoided since you must shoot a certain amount of bullets with the spread gun). The fastest possible boss fight would then be to begin damage on the first frame that its hp is loaded into memory, and do 1 damage until it is destroyed. Most/all boss fights were done within a few frames of this theoretical fastest completion.

Summary & Special Thanks

  • Uses FCEU.16 with macro & multi-tracking patches.
  • Uses death to save time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors in the game.
Thanks to HerooftheDay for help with the spread gun and for a time saving trick in level 1, Miau for his macro & multi-tracking patches to FCEU (which were critical in making this run). Thanks to JXQ, Brushy, Zurrecco, Cardboard, and Baxter, for motivation & listening to me ramble about the game.

Level by Level commentary

Level 1

Fairly simple level. Jumping costs 1 frame so the main challenge it to minimize jumping. I get a spread gun for player 1 and 2 rapid upgrades as well. I used a the regular gun + spread combo to improve the boss significantly. However, with two players, the boss does not become vulnerable until 40 frames later, so I only had a net savings of a few frames.

Level 2

The first base level. The best weapon choice for the rooms of this level would be two regular weapons or two lasers. However, it loses time overall due to slower level 1 & level 2 boss fights. I was able to optimize the spread gun into 4 rapid fire blasts that hit the icons on the first frame possible. This combined with a well timed blast from player 2 meant that I hit each icon in the fastest possible time.
To maintain this 4 row formation of the spread gun, I must keep shooting it for the entire level. To get this formation set up in the first place, I must shoot human enemies.
The boss fight was greatly improved by the use of 2 players and use of the spread gun.

Level 3

The jumping glitch was used to land on high platforms several times. One extra was found compared to my pacifist run (I guess I should redo it now :/)
I also used it to minimize the height of other jumps. This saved 1-2 frames on each jump, which added up by the end of the level. I do not get a 2nd spread here either because level 4 will be slower.

Level 4

More tedium with optimizing the spread gun. I also change the number of rows up to 8 for some rooms but down to 4 in others. 4 is necessary to optimize rooms with only 1 icon. The spread+regular weapon out performed the two laser strategy by architorture by about 80 frames in the rooms of this level.

Level 5

This is the major loss of adding the 2nd player. The tanks stop much later than with a 1 player run. I lost 208 frames from this. The boss was significantly faster though, making it a net loss of 160 for the level compared to Genisto.

Level 6

Luck becomes a problem here. Overall I fared better than architorture but about the same as Genisto in the timing of the flames. The boss was destroyed within 1 frame of the theoretical limit and with minimal stopping. It looks more like a casual stroll rather than a fight :)

Level 7

Lag costs a lot of time here compared to a 1 player run. Also, the 2nd player keeps me from exploiting the extra momentum from one of the carts. The boss was only marginally faster than genisto's because the boss isn't vulnerable until 40 frames later due to having 2 players. Overall, I lost 59 frames compared to a 1 player run.

Level 8

The mini-boss was done only a few frames faster than Genisto due to lag. The final boss was done perfectly, 1 hp per frame. But Genisto also did this with 1 player so it was a push.
Well, that is about it. Enjoy.

Truncated: Accepting. I strongly recommend this movie obsoleting the current 1-player movie, because it is both of higher quality and has more action going on. A third category for this game would be superfluous.

jaysmad
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Joined: 12/1/2006
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jaysmad wrote:
Though there was some missed shots i thought it was so that you get an early quick shot at the bosses but i don't know.
adelikat wrote:
As far as missed shots, keep in mind that these aren't due to sloppiness but rather from optimizing. To achieve the fastest damage on the boss, some shots need to miss their target so that others may hit at the right time.
Ha! I guess i was right! :)
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Joined: 10/6/2005
Posts: 138
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adelikat wrote:
Tmont, sounds like you read and saw what you wanted to.
I'm not attacking anyone. I did come into the run with a prejudice against two-player runs, and unforunately, this run did not break that prejudice. I'm sorry if you feel like I didn't give your run a fair evaluation; I thought I expressed my reasons pretty fairly. Note that many of the reasons I listed in my first post were what I don't like about two-player runs in general. Some of the things I don't like about two-player runs showed up in this run.
Lag was just one of many reasons listed here. Had there been no lag, it still would have been a sub-optimal choice.
I know, I did read the submission text. I said effective strategies are bypassed due to lag. An effective strategy was bypassed due to lag (and other reasons). It wasn't abundantly clear to me from your submission text that the default gun was faster than the spread gun in those particular instances; I guess I didn't read close enough.
I don't see how you can think 2 player runs are less entertaining. 2 players = more strategy, more action, and more difficult TASing scenarios. I could have finished a 1 player run in a fraction of the time it took me to do this run.
I don't see why time and effort expended should have any bearing on a run's entertainment value. I gleamed from your submission text that you spent a lot of time making minute improvements (adjusting for smaller jumps on the waterfall level, for example), and while that's commendable, from a viewer's perspective, that doesn't make the run any more entertaining: it just makes it shorter. In the case of Contra, I'm not sure there's enough strategy, aside from choosing what gun to shoot with, to make a two-player run's strategic decisions that much more entertaining than a one-player run's. I'm not saying no strategy was implemented in the making of this run, I'm just saying it's not perceptible enough to make me think the second player wasn't wasted. Also, I don't think there's more action, since in general, both players are shooting at the same time, and often jumping at the same time. I saw that you took different paths when possible, but that's not enough for me to get excited about this run. It was very well made, but I just don't see the appeal of using two players, other than the challenge of making it. At any rate, my vote is moot, but I voted based on what I liked and disliked about the movie, not what I did or did not read in the submission text. I tired to explain my rationale in an unbiased and informative way, but I clearly failed.
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It is not simple as it looks.I think it must be done by exact copmutation.And he solved the lag problem. I think in the same situation,FCEU has more lag than VirtuaNES and Famtasia.
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Does picking up 2 Rapid upgrades for each guy really make a difference? I never noticed that over all these years.
adelikat
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R's increase the speed of your bullets. 1 will increase the speed of any weapon. A spread gun will be affected by 2 R's
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [797] NES Contra (Japan) "2 players" by adelikat in 08:57.98
Post subject: Two Player
Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 105
I think this video for Contra (JPN) is the Two player Run. Add this catrgory for Contra (JPN) Speed Run, One Player controls Two Characters.
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KRocketneo: Yes, you are correct. I added "One player controls two characters" to the categories. Congratulations on your first useful post. :)
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Run is sweet. I remember this game being hard :D but like all speed runs, it actually is easy!
JXQ's biggest fan.
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ao!I think if we can fire as fast as Genisto,it will be more perfect. I have record a little section. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5846/xipo-Contra%28J%29.fcm
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HD encode Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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