Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
I literally gave you a step by step guide on how to find X/Y coordinates.
If they change for each area doing it properly gets more complicated. But you can just re-find them for each area which shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
I’d still rather you edited your post and made it clear.
Mothrayas wrote:
Because fake lag isn't real lag.
This is getting OT but how does it differ from real lag? Plush has sent me before a screenshot in SM64 on BizHawk of a lag frame that updated the screen, so even real lag can do that apparently. Edit: Actually I think that’s pretty normal with lag during load times, just unusual during gameplay (Plush’s screen was gameplay).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Mothrayas wrote:
You = plural in this context.
Your wording was ambiguous. Don’t try to act as if what you wrote was perfectly fine, right after calling me out when I did the same thing.
If other emulators count it as real lag that makes my question of why BizHawk doesn’t all the more relevant. Oh well…
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Mothrayas wrote:
"Fake lag"/no-input lag is not an uncommon thing with PSX games. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean the emulator is "extra fucked".
You may want to read again, I wasn’t the one saying the emulator was “extra fucked”. My only experience with PS games in a TAS setting is with Tenchu: Stealth Assassins on PSXjin and there is no such thing there.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation. In 5 years on this website I never came across anyone mentioning fake lag before. Would be nice to have an explanation as to why the emulator differentiates between true(?) lag and fake lag, though.
Also my original question is still unanswered…
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
zeromus wrote:
he just tased the game without being stumped by a cue file, so I believe him.
He’s also the idiot who was proven wrong by me on his explanation about how the move he was doing in his TAS works, by the way. I wouldn’t believe him on much. Not to mention there was no opinion from me to believe– I was simply stating facts, and asking you for an explanation of what the facts meant, because I thought you’d know. I never said my own opinion that it could’ve been ghost lag was true, never told you BizHawk was bugged. So you can keep your veiled insults to yourself. Not to mention you have no way of knowing about how Spikestuff got the emulator/game to work, he might’ve run into problems and just asked somewhere else that isn’t this public forum. Not saying this is the case but you can’t prove otherwise, so your statement is unwarranted.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Spikestuff wrote:
"Tekken 3 was completed with an IGT of 8"83 but then BizHawk came. [...] Accuracy was a big feast for this, as input drop became the issue for this TAS. It became a little harder to do Suicide. The input changed to support this newer input."
So how was it like in other emulators? It simply didn’t drop inputs?
I’ve never experienced such behaviour with any other game ever, and the fact that the in-game timer is also affected by the “input drops” is extra weird.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
zeromus wrote:
he just tased the game without being stumped by a cue file, so I believe him.
What do you mean by that? I can TAS the game fine, it’s just that there are these input drops in places and I don’t understand what they are. The amount of lag during loading screens also seems ridiculously low, something like 2 frames for 5 seconds of load times, so I thought the lag was acting up.
If you have an explanation for it I’d like to hear it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Calling it “input drop” is not an explanation. Where did you even write that, anyway? Ignoring my PM and post asking you about it sure was a nice move by the way.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Considering Spikestuff didn’t reply I take it he has no idea.
Basically what’s going on is that if I do for example a certain action, frame 2271 won’t read my input, with a different action before it it does though. The screen/visuals still get updated on frame 2271, but since it doesn’t read input on that frame, I don’t know what else other than lag it could be. This happens with a bunch of other frames. The in-game timer seems to suggest that it truly is lag, because even though I’m delaying my input by 2 consecutive frames in a different instance (because input isn’t read on them), the in-game timer doesn’t display a time that is 2 frames slower, so it discounts the frames as if they were lag.
So yeah I don’t know. Looks like lag to me.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
zeromus wrote:
if the game is running at 50fps and it's an ntsc game with an ntsc bios, then your system is inadequate,
Actually that sounds very plausible. It goes up to 60fps during screen transition load times.
About the ghost lag, the more I test, the more it feels like BizHawk isn’t detecting lag that is there. I’ll be trying to contact the other TASers to hear their experiences. I’ll try to find a proper .cue as well.
Edit: Found the .cue Spikestuff used in his submission, but the hash doesn’t match anything on redump.org.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
zeromus wrote:
use the built-in hashing functions and rom status report to investigate the disc image you have.
Dunno what the second one is. My hash doesn’t match redump.org nor the input file from Spikestuff’s submission. The input still syncs though.
Don’t think I’ve done anything weird with the BIOS. BizHawk reads mine as the PSX USA BIOS, and loads the game without trouble by itself.
I don’t really care about audio but now I’m getting issues about something like ghost lag, BizHawk doesn’t count frames as lag when it feels like they are. Could that be a problem due to my .cue?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Why is Tekken 3 so damn weird? I’m getting random frames on which character input doesn’t work, but pausing does, and viceversa. None of it is in lag, and timing of suicide hitting the opponent is even different in Training Mode (52f) from Arcade Mode (58f).
Wtf is going on. Edit: Wait no I think the dead frame is consistent between pausing and not. Frame 2171. Is it possible that something fucked up in my setup is making BizHawk not count lag frames properly? Whatever the issue is, this game is definitely lagging and BizHawk is not telling me, and I guess Arcade Mode lags more than Training Mode (understandably) so that’s where the difference in frames comes from. Now I just need to know if it’s an emulator bug or something wrong on my end.
Also pausing on frame 2223 is giving me 0″80 on the IGT if I start moving ASAP, but 0″81 if I start moving 1 frame later… This game is retarded. Edit: If I don’t move at all, it gives 0″88. Lmao. /// Must be some stupid RNG behaviour. Actually ending the fight with 1 frame lost gives me 0″81 IGT.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
It’s funny because the people who are crying about derailing the thread are the people derailing it themselves. If the posts were kept to the minimum of Mothrayas’s, Raelcun’s and Spikestuff’s, everything would’ve been on-topic and about the technical aspect of the TAS.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Raelcun wrote:
You're being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic.
No I’m not. Everyone kept saying it was a “2 frames input”, didn’t involve “dashing”, etc. Guess what? Improving a 24 frames input is a lot easier than improving a 2 (or 4) frames input. It may not matter in this situation, but you need to understand what you’re talking about before trying to make explanations. You gave a wrong explanation, and I corrected you; to say that was just to be pedantic is fucking stupid. Knowledge is power, the better you understand something the better you can optimize it. I was showing you that your knowledge was flawed, and you should come out from this conversation as a more understanding TASer who will be able to apply this being “pedantic” in his future TASes to optimize them better.
Don’t be blind to the truth just because it’s coming from a source you hate.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Warepire wrote:
Sound in Tekken 3 is provided by CD-DA, you need to add further tracks in the cue. Or if the game isn't running full speed, get a better computer.
.cue contents:
FILE "TEKKEN 3.BIN" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 59:45:59
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 00 62:20:62
INDEX 01 62:22:62
Game is running at 50fps, which sounds right to me for PAL games. Weird thing is though, I grabbed the same BIOS as in Spikestuff’s submission “Bios: SCPH7003 (NTSC-U bios)” and he says it’s NTSC. I also looked for “Tekken 3 (U) [SLUS-00402].cue” when downloading the game, but the file itself I got doesn’t have that name and I have no idea how to check whether it’s PAL or NTSC.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Raelcun wrote:
my input which actually results in the same thing.
Oh my God, you don’t get it, do you? Your input DOES NOT WORK. You can’t say “frame 4: Forward+1+4” when you have to HOLD that input for MANY CONSECUTIVE FRAMES. The move does not come out in 4 frames, it comes out in 24. Your written input and the input you used in your video are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Yes I know I’ve been insulting and baiting for responses etc. but still what I’m saying is right and right now I’m trying to educate Raelcun, because if he understood my point he could actually improve as a TASer.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Raelcun wrote:
Both versions wind up with the enemy taking damage on frame 52. Congratulations you found an alternate input that makes no difference at all. Care to stop shitting up this thread now?
You don’t understand. I explained how the move works, I never said my method was faster. Your method is perfectly fine but it was the explanation of the move that I’ve been given by you and others in this thread that was wrong. I was just explaining how the move works, because clearly nobody here understood it.
I haven’t bothered with trying to improve the TAS yet, I’ll look into that later on.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
I’ve actually gone and got the game to prove that I was right all along. What idiocy are you seeing? The one I’m seeing is not coming from me.
Raelcun I didn’t mean to offend you by the way, but seriously you’re wrong.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Raelcun wrote:
The fact that you just suggested we be able to skip the blank input means that you have actually no idea what's going on. This has been explained to you in depth, if you still do not believe us, then yes, getting the game and playing with it is the only way to answer your questions.
You don't NEED to dash and do the back stance in order to do a spinning harakiri because doing the input I described will do it for you. I provided you a video where you can very clearly see I only did inputs on 4 frames. Watch it again if you're confused.
Oh God. Everything in this post is wrong. Go look at your video, you’re holding down Forward+1+4 through many multiple frames, you aren’t inputting only on 4 frames.
Also just read my post. I have explained how the move works in perfect detail, try and go play with the game yourself maybe. It’s what I did to figure the move out.
Edit: Quoting my post because of the new page hiding it:
ALAKTORN wrote:
Raelcun wrote:
If you do Forward, frame advance, Forward+1+4 the game interprets this as tap forward twice and not holding it.
As such, it is required for you to do the following inputs
Frame 1: Forward
Frame 2: Blank
Frame 3: Forward
Frame 4: Forward+1+4
This is wrong, lol. “Suicide” is initiated from a dash.
1: Forward
2: Blank
3: Forward
This initiates the dash.
4: 1+4
This initiates the “Suicide” stance, which starts with the second dash.
23: Forward
24: Forward
This initiates “Suicide”, the blade going through yourself.
Sure you can just hold forward through it all and get the move to come out, but that’s not how the move works. Holding inputs through multiple frames also doesn’t count as making the move come out in “2 frames”, you have to count every frame you hold the buttons for, lol.
Overall the explanations that have been provided about the move before this post were pretty much as noobish as I thought they were.
