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ALAKTORN wrote:
I think I may start working on an any% improvement… I think held Y running can be used in the basement to save time.
Edit: Nevermind… I can’t make it save time in the basement. I’m losing 42 frames before swimming (simply running forward and jumping bypassing the swimming check, then LJing) and I’m only saving 2 frames after swimming and 22 frames entering LLL…
I’m extremely bad at TASing glitchy LJs, Sharkey told me today that he saved a lot more time entering LLL with stored Y run so today/tomorrow or soon anyway hopefully we’re gonna work on TASing this, as it looks like it could be faster.
Sharkey also found out that with Yoshi it’s faster to climb poles by jumping out of them and hovering, I’ll work on improving the Goomboss stage pole climb with that for any%.
Edit: For reference Sharkey lost 72 frames to the door then saved 58 going to LLL. Edit2: Nevermind he lied, he lost 48 frames and only saved 34f going to LLL so it’s useless. =_=
For reference: door’s Z is -3174400. Also LJing underwater is faster than jumping and bypassing the swimming check.
Edit: Current best result with basement Y run is 10 frames slower, 34f saved going to LLL but 44f lost getting to the door.
Edit: After optimizing the ending of the swimming a lot we’re only 8f slower, but I was really close to making it 6f… I also think the beginning of the swimming is shit but lol. Too much work.
Edit: Oh god no input tricks are fucked up. You can keep Y run speed by doing no input for 4 frames (2 lag) then inputting again and only losing speed on that single frame of input.
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Koh1fds wrote:
Hello! Guy who found the boosts is here. Cmonnne guys. Why you don't even try? :CCC
1. There is different spawns possible at the beginning of the level 5. Do you try to loose some frames at the end of the level 4 and get different enemy spawn at the level 5 and possible faster boost?
2. The enemies and armor didn't spawns because there is a lot of object left at the beginning of the level. By taking extra money bag near the place of the boost (or by killing red arremer) you can make one enemy appear and then by killing it you can spawn another enemy etc. And then take the armor and then maybe use it for another boost. Because you must wait platform anyway it can save some time.
3. The boss of the level 5 pretty easy manipulatable. Just by messing around IN REAL TIME i can make him stay low and kill him faster.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=02785937255185794689 - here is the movie. Killing the boss 15 frames faster without any frame by frame optimization
Sorry for bad english
Welcome! Looking forward to the final optimal movie.
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Whew, buncha stuff. Finally done with Area C and the first mission, encode at the bottom of the post. I tried to be as entertaining as possible with my movement. There are probably things that are sick but you can’t even tell happen due to the speed of the game. There’s a Vent-only strategy in this segment, which saves 14 frames for him but loses 17 with Aile. Suuper helped me out with figuring out how to optimize wall climbing, you can see it in this picture: http://i.imgur.com/80HQVMD.png. Basically make the Y speed go from 960 to 0 when walljumping. Edit: This is actually the same thing Moth did in the published TAS, so delayed dash doesn’t save any time during wall climbs I guess. :/
Trivia: takes Vent 93f to crawl under each pillar where the penultimate guardian is, takes Aile 62f. If you shoot 2 lemons that hit on the same frame at those destroyable cars, one of the lemons won’t deal damage and will instead act as if hitting a wall, advancing the RNG while making a spark.
Comparisons to published TAS:
Somehow saved 3 frames at the go-over-truck walljump. −284
Lost 62 frames to crawling. Saved 2 frames on the first dialogue box, lost 1f a few boxes later, lost 2f on the last box. Lost 62f(?) to crawling, 12f(?) to upper route. −209
Saved 14f to having 1 single Vent dialogue box compared to Aile’s 2. −223
Saved 1f entering the door. −224
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbDS-QLzCYg
.DSM: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/31949803606005740
.DSM of 14f slower lower route: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/31949783628811943
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Despite human strats, I lost 6 frames to the crouch; 281f ahead currently. Human strat also saves a lag frame so I’m only +3 now, 2012 vs 2015.
After the crouch I noticed that dashing gave me something like 2500 “speed”, as in the expanded hitbox of the dash made the wall push me out at ≈ thrice the speed for 1 frame. Forgot about this when TASing, looked back and it doesn’t seem like it could have any other application so far though. Having a hitbox viewer would be so nice…
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EgixBacon wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
I’m sure a good portion of the budget went into making the game multilingual and multiplatform, which was a terrible idea and a waste of money and effort.
I can understand that for multiplatform (the Wii U version is apparently terribly optimised), but how is localising the game a bad thing? Surely you would prefer to play games in your native language?
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d-feather wrote:
I'm not sure if Live-A-Live--a more obscure Squaresoft JRPG that also features seven seperate chapters at first to go through--would be treated the same way.
We’ve been over that. All chapters would have to be TAS’d.
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Patashu wrote:
It's worth noting that Kickstarter 'budgets' are not accurate, and distort the perception of what the actual gamer thinks it costs to make a game.
–no–
Why are you reading shitaku?
I’m sure a good portion of the budget went into making the game multilingual and multiplatform, which was a terrible idea and a waste of money and effort. Let’s not forget people saying it doesn’t look like a 4mil$ game have been comparing it to other kickstarted games that got much less.
I’ve seen it being speedrun by that really popular Mega Man speedrunner whose name I forget oh right Caleb and the game seemed fine for the most part but nothing exceptional. Load/crashing problems really shouldn’t be there though.
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Fortranm wrote:
The point of this tag is probably to tell the audience that the movie looks a lot different from RTA runs of the same game due to luck manipulation, not how hard it is to manipulate luck in the game.
Maybe but it’s still annoying. Could use different wording perhaps…
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boct1584 wrote:
I agree that this mode of Stadium is more a strategy game, but I also agree that "Heavy Luck Manipulation" is a fitting tag, because isn't every attack used a one-hit KO attack with about a 33% chance of working?
Being someone really into RNG manipulation it annoys me when people bring up using that tag for runs that do nothing more than using savestates to manipulate the RNG. Is there no “Luck Manipulation” (not Heavy) tag?
Edit: I kinda recall a “Manipulates Luck” tag…
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TAS’d a bit more on stream. Seems impossible to manipulate the LU drops from the enemies so I went pacifist. Saved a frame jumping into the door, saved 1 frame from transforming in mid air (so I don’t have to stop my movement) which also allows me to transform 1 frame later (saving 1f) because I can open the transform menu on the same frame I enter the NPC’s run-away trigger zone which nullifies the trigger. Done with Area C-1, 287f ahead of published TAS.
TASing Vent is pretty sad, if I were using Aile I could be saving more frames thanks to her crouching to manipulate my position when talking to the NPC. I kinda hope at the end of the run Vent turns out to have longer cutscenes so I can just resync everything with Aile and be faster…
Vent’s knockback speed is 256 while Aile’s is 512 (same as walking).
Gonna look into softresetting to skip cutscenes… /// Nope, game is smart enough to only let you skip cutscenes you’ve already watched in full, it seems.
Edit: Comparing lag from published TAS to mine (emu v0.9.9 Bus-Level Timing off, dynamic recompiler off)
33 v 34 +1 right on the first screen
70 v 73 +2 (3) intro cutscene
1905 v 1911 +3 (6) after anime cutscene
1937 v 1942 −1 (5) start of Giga Aspis fight
1941 v 1945 −1 (4) right after the dialogue after Giga Aspis, I guess I saved a lag frame here? I think it has stayed the same (+4) throughout the rest of the run.
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Invariel wrote:
With all due respect to the both of you (and with the caveat that I am not a judge), in the 52GO run, you write instructions in RAM by setting things up in the inventory and game state such that when the 52nd game over is triggered, "The game loads those values as the current event pointer, and executes events starting this location."
You are executing arbitrary code that has been generated by your gamestate.
That is not arbitrary. Arbitrary means it can be whatever you want it to be, not just a specific part of something that’s not supposed to be run normally.
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You TAS 3D games the same way you TAS 2D games. RAM Watch and Lua. Get model angle, motion angle, XYZ, XYZ speeds and then for good measure use a Lua that calculates the difference between XYZ pos between 2 frames to see how much you’ve moved. Find the angle that is the straightest and optimize speed for it, if you have to go around a turn figure out how to do that in the best possible way based on your game’s limitations.
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Wow, good thing I went and compared… lost 5 frames for no reason and after checking I noticed I had a dialogue mashing as A+B instead of A,B. How the fuck did that happen. =_=
Anyway, crouching room. Saved I think 2 frames before the crouching (again by jumping into position rather than walking to it). Aile crouches at 192 speed compared to Vent’s 128 so I start losing time here. Only 314f ahead talking to the guy (29f loss). I save 1 frame going to the next crouch because Moth/Rolan started moving 1f later than possible, lol. 284f ahead after the second crouch (31f loss).
And that’s where I’m at now. I have 4 more lag frames despite having saved 1 lag frame at Giga Aspis, will have to look into that discrepancy eventually. Movie:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/31747414173764441
There are 2 enemies in the next room. I’m thinking if I can manipulate a Life Up I’ll kill them, otherwise I’ll ignore them.
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Acedoubleguy1993 wrote:
What kind of move/move set/move combination can affect RNG element in this game? And Is there any method to control RNG in real-time?
“Jumping and slashing poll RNG since Grolla makes noises sometimes during those actions, and she can only advance RNG 1-2 values with each one, with minimum intervals of 10f between jumps and 20f between slashes.”
From the submission text.
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Jeez you guys are fansub experts. I just take whatever shit I find first and deal with the errors.
Been finishing up Sword Art Online II recently. First half was garbage but second half is less so. I should get back to watching more anime.
