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I can’t see anything more to improve in the first stage, so now I’m trying to test the Katanal Grenade strategy. Stage 1 loading makes no sense.
Top is current (no Grenade). First value is frame I press Start; then frame the first level loads (black screen); difference to first one; how soon I press Start; lag frames
2203 2686 (736 -> 748 lag)
2205 2707 21 first frame 736 -> 747
2206 2708 22 second frame 736 -> 747
2207 2692 6 third frame 736 -> 748
2208 2691 5 fourth frame 736 -> 748 — best one
2209 2711 25 fifth frame 736 -> 747
2210 2695 9 sixth frame 736 -> 748
2211 2713 27 sevent frame 736 -> 747
2212 2695 9 eighth frame 736 -> 748
2213 2696 10 ninth frame 736 -> 748
2214 2716 30 tenth frame 736 -> 747
2215 2700 14 eleventh frame 736 -> 748
Stopped there because I’m sure it’s not getting faster.
As you can see depending on the timing with which you press Start to start the level, load times will differ for some reason. All I can see is that more lag gives better results. Also that delaying the input by 3 frames is faster, lol how stupid. Of note: do not rely on visuals when picking items, the game lags behind a lot and doesn’t draw everything at top speed. Just string together the fastest possible input, and regardless of what’s shown on screen, you’re likely to have actually picked every item. Edit: Now that I think about it, the different load times are almost certainly due to the 3 different possible layouts…
For whatever reason I’m getting 0 lag at Katanal with the Grenade… From 1035 to 748, but there is 0 difference in frames… what the hell lol.
Attack damages.
A 7 A 11 A 20
UDA 20
RA 8 LA 16
LA 10 RA 25
JA 16
UUA 13
R1A 25
I’m sure 1 Grenade for Katanal is faster, but I can’t figure out a strategy. Trading like I mentioned a year ago seems terrible, getting slashed loses a lot of time; unless there’s a faster way to trade I forgot about. Problem also is that Katanal goes flying after being hit by the Grenade, so I have to wait for him to hit the ground or I can’t combo properly. Maybe using the Grenade at the end is faster. Also if we could get godlike manipulation, maybe using Shuriken here would be faster too.
5818 6227 Katanal frames for reference (no Grenade).
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Tangent wrote:
Like Resident Evil, there's a ridiculous amount of dead time due to door transitions and item collection. The in-game time provides a decent rough estimate to that dead time in Super Metroid's case, where you can see it's to the tune of half an hour. And those are only the improvements that he's aware of. There are very likely more if he's not doing somewhat basic things like resource management well.
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Some people are too stuck up on the “optimization” issue, I feel. Where was all that during the original Tenchu submission?
Also 90 seconds for an over an hour run really isn’t that much.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS GAME.
http://i.imgur.com/pF3jitd.jpg
I’M INSIDE THE WALL
http://i.imgur.com/grPjO2j.jpg
SO FAR IN THAT THE DOORS OPEN TO THE OTHER SIDE LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
And still only saved 4 frames with all that optimization. :(
Edit: Way too tired right now, I feel like 2 more frames are saveable but I think I’m done with the first stage now. Would take too much effort to save those 2 frames and I probably wouldn’t be able to anyway.
Synced everything, Echigoya death 8433 (4 frames save): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/23336620125877012 Used ≈ 600 rerecords, but I spent hours testing speed stuff outside of TASing.
Edit: Now that I think about it it might be possible to improve the entering of the roof with similar wall-glitching movement. I don’t think the exiting can be improved.
Edit: Wall glitching not possible there. Tried a bunch of different ways to do the dashjump into the hole, but they all tied, lol.
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Hetfield90 wrote:
Well after obtaining the leg parts, you have to input the dash after the jump if you are wall jumping from further away from the wall and not already in dash speed, otherwise air dash will override the jump.
I meant if for example when walljumping over an obstacle going to the right, it was worthwhile to delay the dash for a few frames until the movement to the right kicks in rather than dashing from the start and getting a boost in speed while moving away from the wall.
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“This run has been delayed due to Dooty not being able to fix the missing ring, but after thinking outside the box, I managed to finally able to fix the missing ring not appearing by saving at the Boadroom and loading a save file which will show all objects after loading. Before watching this movie, you will need to format the memory card otherwise it will cause a desync.”
What?
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At 1:00 in the YT encode, it looks like you slowed down for 1 frame or so in order to get up that obstacle. Couldn’t you just make a big jump from the one before it to it? Am I just seeing things?
Thanks.
Bizhawk 26 52 13 33 5 3 132 83.5%
The 3 should be bolded if I’m understanding it right.
Edit: Mixing puNES and BizHawk would give 100%, so wouldn’t that be good/feasable? Edit: Nvm wouldn’t be 100% still.
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Pirohiko link in OP text is broken.
Edit: “I say in FCEUX because this emulator only lets you input once per frame, even when it is polled multiple times. This also had the effect that sometimes some buttons were lost (because of unfortunate timing) and I had to wait a frame.”
So does this mean it would be faster on a better emulator?
7/8.8
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Wow, TASing this game is hard. Speeds and collisions make no sense. I’m a bad TASer.
8437 Echigoya death now. New hook shot saved ≈ 30f, Select + Up 2f, better running optimization(?) ≈ 6f, for a total of 38 frames saved compared to the old prediction (8475 → 8437). No frames lost at Echigoya. 46″ in-game time, now 11″ faster than Hathor’s TAS, lol.
Took me 1463 rerecords and a bunch of hours. Still not done. Latter part of running to Echigoya should still be improvable 2–6 frames. Will try next time. Wish I was better at TASing.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/23227925003734882
Edit: Oh yeah I tried a bunch of ways to manipulate the camera after Katanal for the hook shot, but the normal way ended up being best. Actually having camera RAM addresses would be helpful. Also tried hooking my way out of the roof, but it’s slightly slower even if you consider a perfect landing (which I wasn’t able to get anyway).
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ALAKTORN wrote:
The old (good) after Katanal and Echigoya fight doesn’t seem to sync. I’ll look into it more another time.
Oh shit… Made a weird, annoying discovery. The path of the hook item (and now that I think about it probably the Shuriken too) is determined by RNG. Everything syncs perfectly up until the hook is shot, and the only difference is RNG.
http://i.imgur.com/aENIE4f.jpg
This means that despite the RNG being reset at the start of each level, this game isn’t hex-friendly at all… Fuck.
Current RNG is making me land 2 frames later after the hook shot. The difference in position is extremely minimal, but still affects it.
Edit: Tried a different RNG on Katanal and the second to last hit or so desynced, haha. Damn this game.
Since I went ahead and did the calcs I’ll just dump them here as well:
106 106 106 139 139 118 112 119 122 142 139 119 (repeat) = 1467
16 ..265 123 114 111 117 131 176 197 189 192 187 (jump) = 1818
Running vs. dashing speed, the biggest boost in dashing comes at the end so doing dashes as big as possible seems best. Continuation of that dash with a jump:
83 250 96 79 59 65 61 79 78 73 91 104 128 192 277 340 333 301 183 and then some more numbers, so here again the big boost comes after a while.
Edit2: No worries, found out the old hook shot was absolutely terrible. Makes you wonder why so many TASes used this terrible shot… It’s the human strategy and horribly slow for TAS.
Found out that pressing Attack/Jump during a hook/shuriken throwing it cancels the throw.
Edit3: Omg running against walls gives you a speed boost it seems. Not sure whether it’s actually helpful when considering trajectory though. Edit: Correction, only against wall corners, and it seems to be helpful.
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26145502
^The original Nicovideo also links to this in the description, not sure what it’s about: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26154581
He also says in the description that “Chaos” was the only thing that wasn’t improvable on the JPN version… but Dooty said otherwise.
He had 169952 rerecords btw, that’s pretty ridiculous.
Here’s the input file btw: https://kie.nu/2xMOhttp://www.nicovideo.jp/nicorepo/1/26304448/14304908518603
love_R
こちらを公式のv1.51（？）のSNES9Xで読み込めば多分シンクロすると思います。比較すると穴が見えるかもしれませんが気にしないでください...orz May 02, 2015, 23:13
love_R
あとエミュの違いでBGMのBPMが違うので、比較しているとそのうちBGMがずれていきますのであらかじめご了承ください May 02, 2015, 23:18
Sounds like he used SNES9x v1.51.
