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Announcement:
Hi guys! I decided to pick up this project.
I spent last few weeks with testing and planning new routes.
A lot of things can be improved, according with my rough calculations i can save at least 9000 frames over published movie.
So sooner or later you will see new Lost Vikings TAS. Now it only matter of time.
Though, it definitely will take a lot of time. I guess about half of year. So be patient.
End of announcement.
P.S. I am big fan of old TAS by Ouzo. About six year earlier, when i saw his wonderful work in first time, i have experienced truly indelible impression. Thank you very much Ouzo!
But now is time to improve this masterpiece. Wish me good luck at this long and difficult journey.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Whoops.
Game speed is incorrect. Most likely he used Snes9x v1.43 which is not acceptable.
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Я благополучно решил краеугольный камень своей проблемы - если вызвать меню для досрочной сдачи (START+A+B+C), а затем еще раз нажать A+B+C то все таки можно поменять игроков не сдуваясь!
Это значит, что большой и жирный 40-секундный карась теперь прочно сидит у меня на крючке.
Теперь дело за малым, освоить таинства мультитрековой записи, и можно отправляться в долгое-предолгое тас-приключение.
Научился.
Теперь уже ничто не мешает мне сокрушить один из величайших столпов сайта! Закончил тесты и уже потихоньку начал записывать :)
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feos wrote:
Ну тогда есть 2 варианта: просить аделиката добавить эту опцию в БХ, или хакнуть генс самим и добавить ее туда. Первый вариант круче, так как именно редактор есть. Да и проблем быть с этим не должно :)
К сожалению, дальнейшее расследование показало это косяк самой игры.
Если коротко, то даже в 6-кнопочном режиме с тремя контроллерами, переключаться с помощью кнопок X&Z больше нельзя. Только A+B+C, только fail. Боюсь это исправить никак нельзя.
marzojr wrote:
Archanfel wrote:
Q2:Are you sure that is possible to play The Lost Vikings for Sega Genesis in a 6-Button Mode with three controllers?
I can't be 100% sure without disassembling the game, as I never played it on real hardware with a TeamPlayer and 3 6-button joypads (I did play it ages ago with 2 6-button controllers, but no TeamPlayer). From a strictly hardware perspective, the TeamPlayer allows 3- and 6-button controllers without any issues, you just have to read them correctly. And the code path is different for TeamPlayer and non-TeamPlayer, so it is conceivable that their TeamPlayer code was incomplete or incorrect even if the non-TeamPlayer code was correct.
So I decided to do some testing, and the results are probably not what you wanted to hear. I tested in Kega Fusion since the button mapper in Gens was acting up under Wine, leaving me unable to configure the additional buttons.
It seems that the game is fine and correctly reads all buttons. Testing with 2 players, both using 6-button controllers hooked to an emulated TeamPlayer, I found that X and Z only select the character without a player; to relinquish your turn to the other player you need to press A+B+C. For both 2- and 3-players, mode button worked and allowed item selection for the player that pressed it. From a hardware perspective, the mode button is read together with the XYZ buttons, so if it works, they all work.
So the answer seems to be that the game works fine with the proposed configuration, it is just the control scheme that is not ideal.
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feos wrote:
Дак ты у Марзо-то спроси.
marzojr wrote:
Archanfel wrote:
Q:Is it possible to play Sega Genesis in a 6-Button Mode with three controllers?
In real hardware, yes. You can also play it like that in Gens and other emulators. The catch: GMV file format does not support it. It doesn't even support 3 players, really, but there is a hack for 3-player support that is used by forcing all players to 3-button controllers.
В реале можно, а вот записать в .gmv нельзя.
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feos wrote:
вроде сама сега не разрешает для всех троих юзать 6 кнопок
Печально. Это значит одно очень крупное улучшение накрылось медным тазом.
Ouzo wrote:
One bad thing about doing a three player run is the switching. In order to do so, you need to press A+B+C and that can cause some undesired actions, so I had to choose carefully when to switch characters (ex. cannot switch characters while ballooned up or will deflate). This would be eliminated if each character had 6 buttons to use.
В одном из уровней (WRLR) можно срубить секунд сорок если иметь возможность переключаться не сдуваясь. С двумя шестикнопочными контроллерами скип прекрасно работает, а вот с тремя трехкнопочными - облом. Ouzo еще повезло, что он про этот большой скип не знал, а то при переходе на трехкнопочные контроллеры у него произошла бы психологическая травма.
Не, видимо не буду браться за викингов. Обидно пол года мучится за зря, когда такой большой карась уплыл прямо из рук. Хотя может пару IL улучшений сделаю.
feos wrote:
бизхок таки вышел
Тас Эдитор в бизхоке это хорошо! Однако, бизхок пока не поддерживает режим 3-х игроков для генесис игр (не шесть кнопок, не три - а вообще совсем никак).
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Есть несколько вопросов про запись таса для игр с несколькими контроллерами.
1)Можно ли исхитриться и каким либо образом заставить Gens записывать все три контроллера в 6-кнопочном режиме?{самый важный вопрос}
Это очень важно, т.к. в трехкнопочном режиме некоторые действия не осуществимы.
2)Можно но ли в tas-movie-editor работать не со строкой, а со столбцом?? {без этого жутко не удобно}
Как в exel, т.е. например сдвинуть столбец инпута только для контроллера #1 (удалить или добавить туда N-фреймов инпута), не трогая остальные два столбца.
Edit: Спасибо за ответ, Dimon12321. Жалко, что нельзя :(
3)Как записывать инпут для нескольких контроллеров по очереди?{основа основ}
Допустим записал нужные действия для контроллера #1; Как теперь не стирая действия для контроллера #1 начать запись сначала (т.е. с последнего сохранения), но уже для контроллера #2, #3 и т.д.
3++)Вообще, есть ли где хороший гайд (почитать или еще лучше посмотреть) про то как записывают прохождения с несколькими игроками?
{по сравнению с первыми тремя вопросами, значимость этого близка к нулю, но если гайд есть - то с удовольствием гляну}
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What about a bit increase the distance between Vault and Moon and make separate submissions?:
Vault Tier submissions:Vote: Should this movie be published? (Vote after watching!)
and
Moon Tier submissions:Vote: Did you find this movie entertaining? (Vote after watching!)
Being not enough entertaining, movie submitted to this category will be rejected even if it is good enough for vault.
After rejecting, autor will be able to choose - to submit it to Vault for new voting, or not. (Or somehow to improve/re-do it and later re-submit new better movie for Moon once again.)
---
It also will solve problem with imperfect voting system. Two rabbits in one shot.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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Thanks, that was interesting video. Yeah, sometimes such mistakes happen if just copy old input without searching whole new tricks.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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orugari wrote:
What is your next game? :p
I not yet chosen, but most likely it will be one of these games:
*[Genesis] Flintstones, The
*[Genesis] James Pond II - Codename Robocod
*[Genesis] The Lost Vikings
---
feos wrote:
To find out how it should look, one needs to see how it looks on TV+console.
Well, now we know how it looks on TV+console:
So what about encode with more realistic aspect ratio?
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Amaraticando wrote:
New problem: just find the exact value of x.
x2=12-A2
and
(1+x)2+12=(1+{(1-A)2+12})2
Two equations and two unknowns. It should be quite easy to calculate.
x≈0.8832
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Prove that sum 31974 + 51974 is divisible by 13
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Thank you very much!
Hopefully now we will have encode with correct aspect ratio.
Here smaller pic for PAL mode:
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AllBogs wrote:
Guess a preference for Genesis or SNES music is a bit of an acquired taste. As somebody who grew up with the SNES version of this game, I can see why you'd prefer this version's colours, but the music feels awfully rough around the edges. Still, it was interesting to see the other version differences (however minor) between the two.
I admit, better music is subjective. But, being somebody who grew up with the Genesis version of this game, i very like this music.
Anyway now we have both ports, so everyone can chose TAS with his favorite music from childhood :)
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Scepheo wrote:
FractalFusion's answer is correct (search for "circle packing in a circle")
Using google search to find correct answer is a kind of cheating! But, true it is case for "15 units" from circle packing in a circle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing_in_a_circle
Correct answer is = 4.5213569647061642409073640084Scepheo wrote:
but I'm still curious as to how he found the 36 degrees.
Obviously, because it is pentagon in basis.
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feos wrote:
Прикол в том, что мы уже поговорили, и мое мнение - нам нужно знать, как выглядит эта игра на телевизоре (и подобные ей).
Как оно было на телевизоре хоть убей не вспомню... Но если верить скринам с оригинальной обложки то соотношение сторон должно быть ~1:1.4
http://www.segaworld.ru/_ld/5/73884894.jpg
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feos wrote:
As for the guide, this line has been there since 2010-07-09, as in, from the very beginning. I guess sgrunt contacted some people who were around back then, and they decided to disable aspect ratio correction. I wonder if it was actually wrong.
Эх, жалко что я не сделал этот пробег до 2010-07-09, когда эпоха с черными полосами началась. Тогда не было бы заморочек.
Аделикат сказал обсудить этот вопрос с сеньором публикатором.
adelikat wrote:
....
Talk to the publisher, and then senior publisher (in this case it is the same person).
....
(Feel free to come to me if that doesn't work out)
@feos
Тов. сеньор публикатор, я буду крайне благодарен если переделаешь разрешение из жуткого 256x224 в прекрасное 320x240. И 100% пробег тоже, (в случае если он будет принят).
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Kurabupengin wrote:
The screenshot needs to be cut. Those black bars make it look ugly.
Oh, if it was only screenshot.... But the whole video have exactly the same disadvantage!
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If the game predominantly uses the low resolution mode, uncheck Graphics -> Proper Aspect Ratio in low-resolution mode.
I understand, heartless Guide said you to do it. But to do something worse, than it can be - it is at least strange.
So are you sure that this rule can't be ignored? Never?
320x240 resolution would be a lot more pleasant to watch than ugly 256x224...
---
P.S. If it is possible, to write normal description for game, currently it is terrible :)
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Ok, problems with triangles and with squares were easily solved. Now time for pentagon!
-Radiuses of all small circles = 1. Find radius of big circle.
---
Aktan wrote:
My wild guess is 5
Nope. Answer is irrational number, value somewhere between 4.5 and 5;
A lot of square roots are needed to exact calculation.
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In published video dark areas left and right look like way too big... :\ Seems something wrong with aspect ratio. It should be ~1:1.4 not ~1:1.15.
Check aspect ratio at screenshots from original cover:
http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/1/4/5/37145_back.jpg
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Bobo the King wrote:
I favor the good ol' brute force equations method.
...
That's ten equations and ten unknowns.
Method of solving proposed by Bobo the King is absolutely correct.
Anty-Lemon wrote:
I got 34x34, but knowing myself, I could have made a number of silly mistakes :P
You are good at know yourself :P This answer is wrong.
Scepheo's calculations (before his edit) were wrong too :]
---
Using Bobo the King's notation, сorrect answer is
w = 32
h = 33
Anty-Lemon_v2 is сorrect.
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Well done guys, now one more easy challenge:
Rectangle was cut into 9 squares as shown in the picture. Size of the smallest white square is 1.
-Find sides of this rectangle.
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Mothrayas wrote:
feos wrote:
Thanks, will accept it as soon as I watch it through.
What happened to judging if a movie is acceptable after watching it?
I guess he just tired with so many judging work.
So feel free to take my next movie for your own judgement to give feos a rest :)
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-How many triangles on this pic?
-And how to calculate amount of triangles for arbitrary size of the biggest triangle? (i.e. to find equation for progression a1=1, a2=5, a3=13, a4=27... ax=?).
Correct answers:
* 315
* an= (1/8) (2n3+5n2+2n-((1/2)-(1/2)(-1)n))
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
So what about encode with more realistic aspect ratio?
= 4.5213569647061642409073640084
Ok, problems with triangles and with squares were easily solved. Now time for pentagon!
-Radiuses of all small circles = 1. Find radius of big circle.
---
Well done guys, now one more easy challenge:
Rectangle was cut into 9 squares as shown in the picture. Size of the smallest white square is 1.
-Find sides of this rectangle.
-How many triangles on this pic?
-And how to calculate amount of triangles for arbitrary size of the biggest triangle? (i.e. to find equation for progression a1=1, a2=5, a3=13, a4=27... ax=?).
Correct answers:
* 315
* an= (1/8) (2n3+5n2+2n-((1/2)-(1/2)(-1)n))
