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Dimon12321 wrote:
Как легко скрестить определенные части из 2 мувиков .gmv в один?? Сделал импрув двух первых уровней одного ТАСа, а все остальные уровни побить неполучается, сплошной дизимпрув! Есть ли в TAS Movie Editor 0.12 такая функция?
Если в игре мало лагов и нет случайных величин, то тупо Ctrl + C нужный участок Ctrl + V туда где надо и все прекрасно работает. Это так просто что я даже иногда уровни в неправильном порядке прохожу, а потом из нескольких мувиков собираю 1. А вот если лагов в игре много или что-то случайно генерируется, то не прокатит, скорее всего придется все переделывать.
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Tangent wrote:
I can't imagine easy is an acceptable difficulty. Shouldn't that have been looked into before you started?
---
Just because there was one obvious reason to reject the previous run doesn't mean there might not be more.
I admit, in criticism about choice difficulty there is logic. But what's done is done. Enjoy it as it is :) Or not.
Tangent wrote:
And why would you care about comparing your times to something that was clearly so suboptimal?
True, it was clearly suboptimal, however it was not hopelessly bad. So at least at testing phase, such comparison was useful. For example his dancing level have exactly the same amount of frames as i have (6786 frames). When i saw it i immediately stop pointless testings in this level and moved to the next and saved some time (i mean my own free time). Besides, if you try to play Level 2 with savestates you will see that at least minimal effort should be done to beat gamerretro.
Dimon12321 wrote:
I think it's possible to improve the fight with butterflies!
gamerretro2 wrote:
yes but it's verry hard
He said truth. After all, i saved about 280 frames here, but it was not easy.
MUGG wrote:
So did anyone look into glitches? Such as "left+right" / "up+down" / "Die while collecting health" / "Die while reaching level end" / "Pause while reaching end" ...
I tested them, but there are no useful glitches. Btw fun fact, in this game you need to get ridiculously many damage before dying, woody terminator is very survivable.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Priam wrote:
Where should this movie go?
- Publication
- Vault
- Oh I just can't decide!
- Grue's food vat
Anyway, this movie was pretty good. Aside from a couple sections that were way too long, the movie was pretty entertaining. That's the case for a couple published runs on the site, really, so a Yes is my vote.
I not exclude all three variants: Moon; Vault, Gruefood; Now it is work for judge to make correct decision.
Upd: Ops, seems i misunderstood, most likely Priam meant voting system itself, not my movie.Tangent wrote:
Furthermore, the fish level is auto-win on easy. If you die there, instead of losing a life and having to do it again, you're just sent to the next level. You also need to collect 25 pieces of wood on hard (fewer on normal) in the whale instead of, uh... zero on easy. Enemies on the balloon stage don't attack at all, etc etc.
I can't imagine easy is an acceptable difficulty. Shouldn't that have been looked into before you started?
Sole reason for rejecting previous submission was:
feos wrote:
Rejecting for sub-optimality.
So i choosed the same difficulty as in previous submission, because i wanted to be able compare my results with old movie, frame by frame in each level.
As compromise for case if it be accepted, i propose that if someone in future will do TAS for this game on hard difficulty it will do this movie obsoleted (even being slower).
keylie wrote:
Voting Meh.
I liked the mine cart and the underwater sections. The two-minutes autoscroller at the end was boring, I'm surprised the developers of this game chose that kind of gameplay to end the game... except if there are more sections on hard difficulty.
Nope, this ending is the same on all types difficulties.
ars4326 wrote:
As for the voting system, I have an idea on how to improve on it. So we currently have a set of choices which asks you whether you found the run entertaining or not, or so-so ('No', 'Yes', 'Meh'). Instead, how about we have an initial choice of whether or not the run is publish-worthy? It could look something like this:
Vote: Should this movie be published? (Vote after watching!)
* No
* Yes
SUBMIT VOTE
Selecting 'No' allows you to click the SUBMIT VOTE box and continue. Selecting 'Yes' brings up the same general selection of choices we have now:
Did you find this movie entertaining?
* No
* Yes
* Meh
In essence, these two sets of choices would be featured side-by-side. The selections for whether or not the run was entertaining, however, would be "grayed out" until the 'Yes' option was chosen on the movie being publishable.
I did this quote just to once again attract attention to problem with imperfect currently used voting system.
Good idea, ars4326. Though, personally i think would be better to allow three standard options 'Yes' "No" "Meh" for both these questions simultaneously. Like this: Yes-Yes, Yes-Meh, Yes-No; Meh-Yes, Meh-Meh, Meh-No, No-Yes, No-Meh and finally No-No.
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Plush wrote:
Voted no. I don't understand how people could tolerate watching this.
Well actually i expected a lot "No" votes. So i not surprised :) Thanks for voting!
Plush wrote:
There's nothing superhuman-like in this TAS, nothing that can difference this from a normal playthrough.
This point is not correct. You should watch unassisted speed run for this game (or at least previous submission) before saying this. May be difference is not too big, but it definitely exist. For example in underwater level random seashells not allow player to use upper path so long; Also sequence break (first) at railway in Pleasure Island 2 is superhuman-like and impossible to execute without tools.
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Patashu wrote:
I was going to vote No, but I upgraded it to Meh just because the music was so good ;)
Dimon12321 wrote:
Now it's really good! No improves found by me. The game is not entertaining for me, but I still vote Yez
Judging by the whole five (!!) yes votes so far, a lot of people seem to be confused about what a 'yes' vote constitutes. It doesn't mean 'it was well made' or 'the site should publish this', it means 'I found it entertaining'. If there's a reason why it shouldn't be published, that's what making a post is for!
I fully agree with Patashu. Voting system is imperfect. I regularly have doubts what to vote in borderline cases. 'it was well made' or 'the site should publish this', not always mean 'I found it entertaining'.
@Dimon. Thanks, but next time in such case you should vote No (or Meh, if it not so bad).
Spikestuff wrote:
Uses easiest difficulty
Uh...?
I used exactly the same settings as gamerretro2's in his submissions to be able to steal this project properly.
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А как можно в текст Submission картинку нормально вставить?
Традиционное форматирование как тут на форуме, (IMG открыл/закрыл), там не работает :(
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feos wrote:
You're using the 22-pixel boost from the very first room, right?
And yes and no! Not so easy to explain, but in reality first level is nothing else as setup for best RNG butterflies pattern in level 2. 1-3 frames delay in level 1 can make ~30-40 frames difference at first available hit in level 2.
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Sorry gamerretro2. I decided not wait your third attempt and grab this game to myself :)
I found few small shortcuts, useful damage boots, + heavy luck manipulation, and of course better general optimisation, i sure i easily can save about 1 minute over "optimised" submission.
Exxonym wrote:
What killed it for me though was the long dancing section, and the incredibly long (~9000 frame) final boat sequence. Maybe the rest of the run could be entertaining enough despite this, but you would probably need to find some sort of glitch for it to be very entertaining. That being said, I still look forward to what can be done with the game.
You are right indeed, these long dancing section and final boat sequence are big disadvantage for entertainment, but all other levels are quite interesting for tasing. May be i am too naive but i think this game have chances to get moon tier not the vault.
Here how approximately optimised Pride Rock level should look like (~840 frames improvement (in this level)):
Link to video
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Exxonym wrote:
Even so, improving this game to a perfect state I don't think it would be very entertaining. Sure the graphics, animation and sound are good, it's just that the gameplay makes it very lackluster.
I played/tested this game last few days and can't agree that gameplay is so lackluster. A lot of cool things can be done for further optimisation.
So actually this game can give pleasure not only for eyes but also for brain.
I hope at third attempt gamerretro2 finally is working serious, and his well-optimised movie will force Exxonym to change his opinion.
But if for some reasons his third submission will be taken cold again, i will try to disprove this opinion by making my own TAS.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Archanfel wrote:
Finally Dimon played nice game instead of FPS with creepy graphic!
Movie is enough entertaining and also well optimized (10 frames ahead than AndyD's WIP) = Easy yes vote.
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Finally Dimon played nice game instead of FPS with creepy graphic!
Movie is enough entertaining and also well optimized (10 frames ahead than AndyD's WIP) = Easy yes vote.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Why do this game wasn't TASed before?
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Near the end of the game, a reset of the console is required to reach the final stage. This made the game unTASable for quite some time, since Gens did not support it.
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DaTeL237 wrote:
Did you manage to use the script or find another way of checking for 'holes' in ceilings?
To check "holes" i use this primitive technique - in tas-movie-editor i multiply pasted simple input sequence:
[10 x "B"] [20 empty frames] [1x "->"]... [10 x "B"] [20 empty frames] [1x "->"] ... and ect to infinite.
And then watch result at fast forward.
I checked ceilings at W4L3, but without success :( Seems in genesis version this zip is not exist. Or i doing something wrong...
DaTeL237 wrote:
W5L1: turn left, use the floating platforms and take teleport to swimmer-upgrade! {up to 15 seconds}
I still at World 3, but decided to to finally test this warp-route in World 5:
Link to video
It is faster, but benefit at time is laughably small, it is only about half of second, not 15 seconds. But anyway it is improvement, and new route look alot cooler than normal, at least i think so :)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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arandomgameTASer wrote:
Even shortened, it gets repetitive very quickly. I also don't approve of ending input early to save a few frames.
All true it gets repetitive very quickly. BUT i big fun of tricks with ending input early to save a few frames, so i voted yes.
Input should be ended as soon as possible - it is one of the pillars of TAS.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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r57shell wrote:
Archanfel wrote:
Просто в отдаленной перспективе поглядываю в сторону возможности улучшения этого замечательного мувика если никто другой так и не возьмется.
А есть куда улучшить? :O
Еще как, минуты две-три срубить точно можно. Нужно только найти исполнителя.
r57shell wrote:
Если бизхок это будущее, то у меня нет будущего :D
Пока плохо, да, но ведь потихоньку все таки улучшают...
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feos wrote:
Со странной физикой надо бороться современными инструментами. Тастудия бизхока уже совсем близко (тестируем, готовим). А ядро сеги у него теперь самое лучшее (из тасабельных).
Да, видимо за бизхоком будущее. Но его еще дорабатывать и дорабатывать, так что пока Gens и Snesx не торопятся уходить но покой. Старый конь борозды не испортит :)
Немного не в тему, но как в бизхоке обстоит вопрос с поддержкой сразу трех контроллеров? Просто в отдаленной перспективе поглядываю в сторону возможности улучшения этого замечательного мувика если никто другой так и не возьмется.
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Game is nice in many aspects. Do not surrender, continue perfecting it to the limit and your third (...or fourth) better optimized movie can be accepted. Good luck in next time!
+My 5 cents for further optimisation: in underwater level in several places you can ride on Batoidea and save some time. For example you easily can do it at 7:43 in your current movie:
Link to videogamerretro2 wrote:
i can tas snes version if you want you dooty
Since you started on genesis version - would be logical to keep working on genesis version.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Может потому, что о нем забыли
Простой странно, что за столько лет существования сообщества, всех соников (всех известных мне) перекопали вдоль и поперек а про 3D Blast все дружно почему-то забыли. Коллективная амнезия какая то.
Dimon12321 wrote:
От публикации отделяет всего лишь общий импрув, который описан в обсуждении, возьми да переспидрань!
Все игры про соника вообще, и 3D Blast в частности, в плане оптимизации очень сложны, там черт ногу сломит. Я разделяю перфекционистский взгляд - надо стараться делать идеально или не браться вообще. Делать кое-как не хочется, даже если это кое-как опубликуют. Публикация по сути это лишь формальность, истинная же цель тасинга (ну по крайней мере как я ее понимаю) достичь абсолютного предела игры, ну или подобраться к нему как можно ближе. А чтоб бы пройти любого соника действительно хорошо нужен настоящий эксперт коим я не являюсь.
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Вопрос к умудренным соникофилам. Большинство игр про соника уже раз по пять тасили-перетасили, уже даже до хаков добрались, а вот старый добрый Sonic 3D Blast почему игнорят... ни одной нормальной публикации до сих пор нет (отклоненные submissions не в счет). От чего так мало внимания уделяется трехмерному ежу?
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gamerretro2 wrote:
i have optimised all levels at frame
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Improvement for any% run in World 3: In last swimming level before Mr. Octopus boss i found sweet OoB route:
Link to video
It is few seconds faster than normal route and also it allowed avoid lots of coins :)
Besides it now i have 2 extra not used nuts-ammo and i can go back to kitchen to use them to kill lamp which should save yet several frames.
P.S. With modifications it is applicable to 100% run too.
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1)Rules about transition from Vault to Moon is very unclear sometimes.
From recent examples http://tasvideos.org/2697M.html such a small improvement was enough to do transition; But dunnius's NES Hydlide in 05:11.62 improvement which nearly twice faster than 09:07.32 predecessor - still not enough for transition, it is strange imho.
2)Voting system is imperfect:
Vote: Did you find this movie entertaining?
Vote: Should this movie be published?
It is two absolutely different questions. Sometimes boring movies deserve be published. And sometimes (rarely but still) entertaining movies not deserve.
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Even if ignore the fact that game itself boring, "fastest time" challenge also was failed due suboptimal-long answers as was proved by Spike. Not voted because i sure that it will be rejected even without my additional "no".
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DaTeL237 wrote:
Nice and fast progress
World 3 will not going fast, those swimming levels just killing me
Water? Mr. Nutz is not pleased. Such sad squirrel.
And i still have doubts about best health/weapon management... In other words i still on testing phase.
Btw small positive news: Not only latest map, but all maps except first two worlds can be skipped. It save ~10 sec per each skipped map (x4).
It workable in both game versions, for example try to press A or B buttons approximately at frame #25520 in yours movie :)
This game sync very good. So actually with using your old input in TAS-movie-editor easily possible to save over 40 seconds with minimal effort. But i am working in genesis version (parallelly with 100% i also re-doing any% too).
I like genesis version, so i not interested to improve SNES even if it is infinitely easier to do than slowly re-do everything from zero in genesis. And anyway some other "not-so-easy" improvements exist, so i think not worth to touch SNES version.
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Spikestuff wrote:
I shaved 26 frames off of your final input (using your input). File is here.
You fixed final input quite sloppy, last 2 frames still can be deleted. 72132 frames is enough. If like to сorrect other people's ending input, at least try to do it properly next time.
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Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Water? Mr. Nutz is not pleased. Such sad squirrel.
And i still have doubts about best health/weapon management... In other words i still on testing phase.
Btw small positive news: Not only latest map, but all maps except first two worlds can be skipped. It save ~10 sec per each skipped map (x4).
It workable in both game versions, for example try to press A or B buttons approximately at frame #25520 in yours movie :)
This game sync very good. So actually with using your old input in TAS-movie-editor easily possible to save over 40 seconds with minimal effort. But i am working in genesis version (parallelly with 100% i also re-doing any% too).
I like genesis version, so i not interested to improve SNES even if it is infinitely easier to do than slowly re-do everything from zero in genesis. And anyway some other "not-so-easy" improvements exist, so i think not worth to touch SNES version.