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Priam wrote:
People seem to like this movie a lot. It's better than the existing run in some ways. It's not better than the existing run along all metrics. Separate publication seems to be the clear choice. "I'm tired of Super Metroid runs" is not a compelling argument.
Edit: And now, having watched the run, I am voting Yes. There's a lot of parts of the game in this run that I haven't seen for quite some time. I do wonder why get the Varia suit, though.
Varia Suit halves the damage of Mother Brain's hyperbeam attack (the only thing it does that the Gravity Suit does not, as far as I know). Therefore, you need 6 E-tanks to survive against Mother Brain if you don't pick it up.
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Warp wrote:
Could someone please explain to me, once again, why ingame time is any kind of desirable goal with this game. What's the point?
Like with any game that has a clock that you can see, it is a common goal to finish the game with the least possible time on the clock. Sonic would probably be the best example for this.
Of course with Super Metroid the clock is only visible at the very end, and it rounds down to the nearest minute so its not very precise. And because of that it's not as obvious a goal to finish with the least possible time on the clock, compared to Sonic which has a clock for each individual level. And therefore its understandable that its not as readily accepted as a Sonic run aiming for ingame time.
Still, since the release of the game it has always been the goal of the Super Metroid speedrunning community to aim for clock-time rather than realtime, which is why its a desirable goal for almost anyone who has been speedrunning the game at some point.
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adelikat wrote:
Prior to the current publication we had the in-game time and real time any% runs published along side each other. I personally would be open to restoring that situation. Though I"m a bit sad that one movie couldn't accomplish both anymore. I thought that the double obsoletion was really impressive with Taco & Kriole's movie.
Well it was always known that you could complete the game faster in ingame time than the current any% run if that was your goal, though probably not by this much.
Anyway. Nice route, fantastic optimization, good style. Voting yes but leaving the discussion to everyone else.
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Tub wrote:
Tricks that were never used before? In Super Metroid? Awesome!
Technically there's nothing new going on. Reverse walljumping has been used before, though rarely for any good, as has walljumping on opening doors, though never on horizontal ones as far as I know. The application here is so fucking cool/sneaky/smart though. Blew my mind.
And then, just as I though the rest of the run was going to be standard (brilliant) fare, you went all Wave+PB combo on Crocomires ass, and opened the left door with a wrap-around shot (was that the charged shot at the energy tank, or the shot at the vertical door?). All around A+ jolly good work.
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Brandon wrote:
jaysmad wrote:
Big YES! I hope this makes it. I like the pic Brandon. May be a bit of a spoiler but still... Epic!
I always go with the author / audience before my own opinion, and I think cpadolf provided a good one. I'm glad you like it man. :)
Also, what are your thoughts on the HD encode, anyway? MisterEpic still hasn't posted any progress, and if it's relatively acceptable, maybe we should just publish it with what we currently have.
Personally I don't care much since the download is still of great quality. Don't know what others think about it though, or what the site standards are about the quality of videos linked from sites like youtube.
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Just checked and saw that the slopeboost can save time when going uphill, even on a non-steep slope. You actually only need to press back for one frame in order to do it, if you delay the jump by one frame. So while going up a slope while facing right, you go [<][>][>+B]. Should save about 5 frames in the intro, and probably a bit more on Chill Penguin.
Just wanted to leave that there if anyone ever tries to make an improvement to the current runs.
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I hadn't thought of the maridia tube thing for the 100% run. Now I'm unsure if it saves time or not for that run.
Anyway, I'm not aware of any different route for a 100% run that would be faster ingame. There might be something but I have never really thought about that, and hero is the master route-maker anyway, I'm pretty bad at that stuff.
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With the cooldown of shinespark after hitting a wall, and not being able to go through the morphball tunnel in the X-ray room as fast (no springball to keep your speed, since you'd have to go there after the brinstar cleanup), I doubt it would save more than a second, but it would probably save something.
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As long as you don't use X-ray, I don't think the route for the 100% run will be changed. As for improvements on the 100% run, it's just improvable in genera, the improvements are too numerable to mention (and I don't remember them all anyway). There are new tricks in a lot of places, and optimizations in a lot of places as well. For boss battles, all I know is that Saturns opening shot on Ridley, from the roof, should be faster. I think it's the only one that could be improved by a significant amount (probably 30+ seconds without X-ray).
The Any% run has some parts where it should be improvable in realtime by sacrificing ingame-frames, and IIRC Motherbrain could be manipulated into using her hyperbeam attack faster. It might be possible to do Kraid after Ridley and save some time by doing that, and I think you can escape the Baby Metroid faster without a shinespark (and you definitely can in the 100% run). And then there are some tiny frame optimizations in various parts of the run.
Oh and also opening he Maridia tube with a PB the first time you pass through it if faster, and applies to both the 100% run and the any% run.
For the glitched run, all I know of is a few frame optimizations in crateria+brinstar, and a bit of lag reduction towards the end of the escape, but there might be more somewhere
This is of course only the stuff I know/remember, there might be more things out there.
IMO the only run that would be really worth an improvement is the 100% run, but it's still so damn much work for a still relatively small improvement that it's hard to get motivated for.
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For Super Metroid, 100% has always simply meant that you collect all items (so that the game shows 100% item collection in the end sequence). The normal Super Metroid 100% run skips bosses as well.
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This is a really, really nice run.
Is it improvable? Yes. As are all of the currently published Super Metroid runs. And both the 100% run and the normal any% run where published with known improvements in existence (I don't think the newest glitched any% had any at the time, but it has been proven improvable since).
Is this run by any means technically sub par? Absolutely not. It has an overall good level of optimization, surely on par with many runs, especially first generation runs, that has been published on this site in recent memory. Few things really stuck out to me as looking sloppy. More than that though, the run constantly impressed me with all the cleverness in its strategies, whether they were 100% optimal or not, and it's fast and entertaining as hell.
Big yes.
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Brandon wrote:
Any screenshot suggestions?
I think frame #65155 or #67475 would be pretty nice. They are probably the best ones to both capture a significant moment in a single frame and look interesting.
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Nach wrote:
Cpadolf: You want to try to make some quick improvements, or is it okay to judge as is, and you'll save the improvements for a submission in the distant future?
The only improvement I know of was the one posted on this page, and that has been implemented at this point. So I don't have any intention of attempting to improve it any further currently, and it can be judged as it is.
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Hoandjzj wrote:
Cpadolf wrote:
Yeah that should definitely be faster, probably about 60-90 frames. I'll try to tend to that in the future and get the submission updated. It should be manageable to hex as long as I can get the same drops from the pirates.
Oh, it's really that fast?! Nice :D But I'm sorry not to test this out earlier, that idea came to me when I was watching you run :3
I hope you can hex it so you won't have to escape again :D:D:D
Yeah, in the original you can delay the killing shinespark by a lot and still not lose any time on him, because it takes that much shorter for him to reach the middle.
Yeah that should definitely be faster, probably about 60-90 frames. I'll try to tend to that in the future and get the submission updated. It should be manageable to hex as long as I can get the same drops from the pirates.
Also, I just noticed I still have mod rights on this board... which I probably shouldn't since I'm not a judge anymore. I accidentally edited hoandjzj's post instead of quoting i :P
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There is a big help thread for SMILE on this board of Metroid2002, I guess there might be someone able to help you there.
I remember that you have an account there, from the whole debacle that went down with TASes over there in 2006 :P
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Wrote a post about it in the workbench, so I'll go ahead and quote myself.
Cpadolf wrote:
That's due to the camera not following me properly in the 4th (I think) room of the escape sequence. I leave the room before it catches up, which makes the horizontal scroll mess up a bit. Or something (it's the same glitch that happens in the glitched any% run). Interestingly, the graphical glitching only occurs when I move to the left. Which is didn't notice until now.
