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Wait I just noted something in Saturns new viedo, he took 4 missile tanks before WS in his old any%... Why?
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Yes so it seems, cost me 2 frames.
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Between my two runs this new strategy was 8 frames faster.
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I've made big progress on my any% run today and yesterday, phantoon is down and checking the frame the refills appear I am 183 frames ahead of my old run which is a lot more than I though I would have gained at this point. Most things now to me seem very optimized. WIP Oh and hero, did I miss any trick or faster strategy you found?
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Well 10 compared to 30 will make ridley maybe 4-6 seconds slower at most, taking all those tanks takes more than that (I am quite sure) and you have enough health to survive the heat for more than that.
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Awesome WIP Kriole, I spot many small improvements but the entertainment value is crazy. Though I would probably have skipped the 2 missiles at the R-tank, and maybe the one in blue brinstar at the E-tank and the other one in the early supers room. I never thought about it before but wavebeam is awesome, it makes everything more entertaining, also it is purple. Purple is awesome. Also that speedbooster glitch is awesome (or a pain in the ass when it happens at the wrong time) The key word in this post is awesome.
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moozooh wrote:
evilchen decided we're using his version which is largely the same
Good, now maybe we will see some progress :D
Tonski wrote:
Saturn, stop saying Taco spent a year on Ceres.
IIRC acording to one of his friends he actually did spend close to a year on it...
Tonski wrote:
Cpadolf, got my laptop back. ;)
Yay :)
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True, personaly I'd say that both my successes with this room are largely based on luck. Sure this second time I was very systematical when searching for the best frames to shoot but there could just as well be so that a subpixel position of for example 4096 instead of 0 at the begining would have saved me or lost me a couple of frames. This room is stupid.
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moozooh wrote:
I don't know which version to go with, as I don't feel too good about involuntarily "waiting" for players not directly involved with the project to achieve what I want and reap their results afterwards
Then try to improve it :)
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Saturn wrote:
Stuff about the diagonal room
Well I can't imagine anything other than that I found another enemy to refill from without stoping (probably the sceond one, that one took the longest time to find a good spot to shoot) because I can not imagine that they have been working with this strategy for any large amount of time without result. And I still think it is improvable by at least 1 frame, but finding better spots to shoot from just takes so long time.
hero of the day wrote:
I didn't spend even close to a 1/4th of a year in that room. What are you talking about Saturn?
I think he was talking about
moozooh wrote:
So far hero, evilchen and I have been bruteforcing it,
this added with the fact that their run has been standing still at that room for a long time.
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Great Taco :) I also have good news, after a couple of intense hours I've got a time of 295 frames for the diagonal crateria room :D I enter with a perfect subpix position, keep a constant speed of 2 px/f and have tried to skip as few armpumps as possible, I also believe that the three pickups are from the optimal enemies (maybe the second or third enemy could be exchanged for the one between them, but I found no frame that allowed me to). The rest of the possible improvement for the room is to find more optimal positions to shoot the enemies thus allowing more armpumps and boring as it is AFAIK the only way to do so is by bruteforcing. Feel free to do so moozooh and others, I'm out.
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Saturn wrote:
Yeah, that PB refill slowed you down by around 2-4 frames I think. The morphball jump through the upper block can also be done a bit faster by optimizing the subpixel position, as shown. Also my Botwoon refills were pretty bad as well, only getting 2 Supers, and even not having full energy after the fight (288 instead of the full 299). Although it's only 11 points, it could still slow you down a bit later, as it would require you to eventually get one more health refill in order to have enough energy for LN. When you reach him in your new run, you should definitely try to get full energy after the fight already.
Yeah the refills where not the best and I'll try to make them better when I reach him, though when I did him in that run I simply killed him as fast as possible (I think the fight itself is unimproveable) and his drops in no way forced me to do the fight over thus I continued. Now that I have a decently optimized run to compare to things will be easier, I really hope that I will be able to skip those pipebug refills in norfair... As of now I'm at the diagonal room in crateria, I think I'll try to see if I can find the new strategy but I'm probably not going to keep at it for to long, after all the run will not be published and we are talking about 1 maybe 2 frames. Also I remember moozooh saying he saved 2 frames at the torizo, where did you gain those frames? I improved by 2 frames from my old run there but it was not anything I did in that room, I improved the entry and landed 2 frames earlier but found it impossible to do anything different in the jumping part.
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Yeah the reason I did not jump of the platform earlier was to gain a PB, so I would have been faster than JXQ otherwise (I think)
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Kriole wrote:
I take we can expect this during Draygon waiting period in you SM:I TAS.
Perhaps if it works underwater :) Also if it does that means you can turn around from facing right to left much much faster than you normaly can (only works from right to left, somehow the game always puts you facing left after cancelling the turnaround animation)
Saturn wrote:
Btw, anbody who plans to fight Botwoon with Hi-Jump Boots, here a direct rip of my old any% WIP to demonstrate how to exit him as fast as theoretical possible. This strategy is around 10 frames faster than JXQ's 100% v2 one:
Nice, I just started a new any% TAS aiming for sub 23:50 completition so this will likely come to use. BTW mind checking how fast it is compared to my 00:24 TAS in that room? IIRC I was several frames faster than JXQ there as well.
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I just found a really weird turn around glitch, it's good for absolutely nothing other than looking amazingly hilarious... AMAZING!!!
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Saturn wrote:
This trick I already discovered during my old any% WIP in November 2006, allows you to jump over the huge gap before Wave Beam in one turn, easily saving more than 20 frames compared to the usual Walljump strategy everybody has used so far. I hope hero isn't past that point in his run yet, so that he can still include it. It only works without HJ-Boots though, so it wouldn't be of use in the new 100% route, unfortunately.
Though it is quite possible that hero has also discovered this, after all he mentioned that he found a crapload of new room strategies. Also it is great that you are sharing some of your tricks now :)
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Now why the hell haven't anyone done that before... I mean it's a damageboost, that isn't even a little tricky.
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Haha, the persistence of some:)
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moozooh wrote:
So far hero, evilchen and I have been bruteforcing it
That sounds so destructive :) To bad Super Metroid is too complex to be effecticely bruteforced by a bot, even in small areas.
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The NBMB I'm pretty sure is past that point, though I don't know if he actually got it working.
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Kriole wrote:
Huh? Aren't we using the same strategy?
We collect the 2nd and 3rd missile from the same creatures but I get my first one earlier and I shoot the second creature earlier. So either my strategy is faster or it was just more optimized. Don't really matter that much though since IIRC moozooh found another strategy there which was something like 7 frames faster.
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@ Krioles WIP: Really good this time, very solid. I think I saw a few small possible improvements here and there but overall the quality is way way higher than your previous work. One noteable trick you missied was that in the PB room, it is possible to open the door before taking the first damageboost. Both hero and I did this in our any% runs and it saves some 6-7 frames IIRC. Also creative as you are I can not believe that you are still slower than my old any% in the purple diagonal room, though it is only 1 frame now I excpected you to find a faster strategy than mine.
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Saturn wrote:
And evilchen, your music video of hero's any% run is probably the best I have seen so far. Really nice editing and graphical effects, and a pretty good and suitable soundtrack for most parts of the run. You did a great job with it. :-)
I totally agree, there are more entertaining runs (like JXQ's 100%v2) but that is IMO the most entertaining video of a run. Though actually I didn't like it at all first, I hated all the music before draygon and that really made the run less entertaining for me but then for some reason I suddenly began to love the 2nd and 3rd song too. More videos like this from you would be greatly appreciated :) Comments on Krioles RBO comming soon, just going to check some things in it first.
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The 2nd is called "Love don't let me go/Walking away: David Guetta & The Egg RMX". The 3rd is called "Hold" by Wumpscut. Walking away Hold Also thanks for asking, I always wanted to have these songs but never knew the name of them, now you made me find out by googling :)
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Tonski wrote:
Am I the only one that thought of Saturn and moozooh from that?
Yeah I think so, or maybe...? Anyway I thought it was hilarious.
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