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It's better, though people will still (probably) take it as a "I'm better" statement, I do understand you though.
AFAIK it's not only the maridia gate. I don't know everything in detail but many say that you are a frequent nay sayer who is often proven wrong.
For example there was the Torizo skip, sure with what you knew at that point it was impossible but that's the thing, you don't take into account that there could be ways that no one knows of yet that might change things. Same goes for the maridia gate (though I do doubt it will ever be opened from the wrong side)
Anyway I don't want to take this discussion any further, 1. Because I'm tired (got up at 6 for work and it's 1 now) 2. I don't feel like I have anything more to say.
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I just meant it like an overall pointer because sometimes you like to say things in the wrong way.
Also you have made your fair share of "that's impossible" statements.
EDIT: Saturn wrote:
And don't have too much hope on the escape either. You won't beat my times there, because they are perfect as well. I'm actually glad you work on it by now, so hopefully we will see your (slower but without seeing my version still impressive) result soon. :-)
I don't know how you meant to say this either but to me it clearly sounds like you are saying that moozooh will be slower.
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And how can you know for a fact that moozooh will not get as good times as you?
EDIT: Also I should say for your own best to avoid major dislike from many that if you have information that you and only you have but are not willing to tell then for god's sake don't say you have such information, it makes you sound like "I'm better cus I know stuff you don't"
This is only my opinion though.
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I've always believed that the timer just vary between changing by 00:02 or 00:01 every frame but always adding upp to 01:00 in a cycle of 60 frames, meaning that every third frame it moves by 00:01 and vice versa. If this is true then you should only be able to get a 00:01 boost by changing which frame the counter begins on. However if a different clock time on the same frame can make steam act differently then other improvements could be made.
But doesn't the clock work like that or what?
EDIT:
moozooh wrote:
On a related note, have you determined any patterns in escape counter behaviour that might be useful/manipulable somehow? Because the results I get are kinda weird in the least; for example, in the test I was talking just above I left Ridley's chamber (frame 2412, IIRC) at 59'86 while having fully matched JXQ's times at entering all the rooms (he leaves at 59'87). Seems like this logic-defiant timer can be affected by literally everything, not just timing of pressing start at the intro cutscene, entering the rooms and taking a hit from Ridley. What the hell.
I encountered this also the first time I tried to tie with JXQ in ceres, It turned out to be so that the counter and the door openings are affected by realtime frames, at least I think so because when my intro scene was slightly slower then JXQ's I could not leave ridley's room at the same frame as him even with exactly the same subpixel positioning.
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Well, I'm quite sure that with the situation I was in at the pipebugs It would have been impossible without refilling at them. If I wouldn't have I would be at 0 SM 0 PB and 5 Missile after wavebeam, that could potantialy get me 2 Supers at hijump but still no PB's, to manipulate a PB from the red creatures in the norfair shaft would bu (if even possible) very slow plus the fact that I wold have to use 2 wave combos at botwoon (if fully possible) which would slow down further. If all this where possible and executed correctly then maybe faster without the refills but I don't know.
Actually I did it with 3 round refill at first but I managed to cut it down to 2 (saved ~1.5 seconnds) by slowing down slightly at 3 later points (lost maybe 30 frames, dunno). Leaving norfari with 8 supers and 1 PB, so PB refill at the crabs are still needed but IIRC that should leave me still with 6 supers and 1 PB at botwoon (now hope he won't be a bitch like phantoon and force me to use another pause screen for 2 supers and a PB.
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DrJones wrote:
I haven't watched the vids, but if it looks kickass and you manage to lose less than 10 frames on the stunt, I would go totally for it.
Perhaps but I'm going all out for a 00:23, I won't risk that for a cool trick when there are plenty of others in there.
Hero
You have to shoot diagonally to get the wrap around to work right?
And are there any other special conditions that must be met?
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Heh, nice one, I will definitely use it if I have enough health which I should get on the elite pirates. I presume that it's impossible to open the other door in any other way, at least in time.
To get 24:01 would be the ultimate kick in the crotch, the difference between 23:59 and 24:01 is so small but so significant.
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Which means that if you are able to skip the refill in that room you will gain time.
Anyway, I'm up to entering maridia now, I still had to use pipebug refills but only 2 rounds compared to my last run's 5. I am ~33 seconds ahead of my old time and I'll have to hope to gain time faster from this point forward because if I continue in this rate I'll get stuck somewhere around 24:20 if my calculations are correct. Though I do think that there are more larger improvement points from here on.
EDIT: Hmm that's a weird one, I tried to duplicate what you did, basically same subpixel startpoint, same input. but it doesn't work... don't really matter now but weird anyway.
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Nope, no good use for this in my run. Down to Hi-jump was 15 frames faster but since I need a SM refill from the enemy I had to take the lower route which turned out to be much slower and I ended up 17 frames slower then before. So the thing is that even if I could save the whole 30 frames down to Hi-jump (if that's possible) it would still be slower, sadly, because it looks totally kickass.
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I guess that the acceleration storage should have given him 2-3 of those frames on the way back I expect, the rest, most likely from better optimized steam (probably in the second to last room) since he stated that he needed to manipulate luck already in the opening cutscene.
I shall now test hero's method in the pre Hi-jump room, but doing so I will also need to use the lower route back since I need a SM refill.
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Hmm, I'm at norfair and this will be a tough one I think, because the ammo management. I'm at 4 supers and 0 PB's and missile, and I have taken every refill I think is possible without slowing down much. It probably won't be possible to do without the pipe bug refills but we'll see, I don't want to use them...
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Crap, I will have to go with 146 hp after phantoon and hope for many health refills in the pre spike room. The reason, well to even get this much energy I had to enter the start menu, and luckily I only had to enter it for the shortest possible time but I tried every possible refill combination over the span of ~300 frames without anything better... seriously thats bad.
At least I got 5 pb's 2 supers and 8(+4) missiles (actually took 3pb's 2 supers 10 missiles) And after the escape (for me it was faster to use a pb then mockball for several reasons) I'm ~33 seconds ahead of heros old TAS.
Hero:
If you actually get this to work and I'll have to restart from redbrinstar, what route should be the best.
Redbrinstar-Kraid-Varia-Speedbooster-Wave-Hijump.
Redbrinstar-Speedbooster-Wave-Hijump.(Leave Kraid till after plasma)
Redbrinstar-Hijump-Speedbooster-Wave.(Leave Kraid till after plasma)
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And if you indeed manage to do this, would it be implemented in your run? The only real use I find for it would be in terris where it would save much time after WS since maridia is your next destination, or am I missing something very obvious (like usual)
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It looks like I will have to delay by using the start menu, sadly. Delaying the first missile did not work even when I delayed by ~10 frames and if I can't delay it for much longer or he will come to close, I don't care much that the realtime will go up by several seconds, what bothers me is that this disturbes the continuity in the run and is the only pause screen in the run.
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I actually did a test run for both NTSC and PAL, though didn't record it unfortunately, I used the same tricks in both runs except a few differences ofcourse like torizo skip, all in all I think that those runs where a bit better then you possibly can do on console since I used slowdowns and such. So I would say that a "perfect" console run would be at least 30 seconds slower.
The times I got was NTSC 00:30 (High) PAL 00:34 (Low)
Anyways, I'm getting really sick and tired with phantoon. For the fourth time I defeated him on a different frame and got the same refills, (just to be sure they where unchangeable I did it 4 times with first optimal the 1 frame dealy then 5 frame delay then 10 frame delay)
This means that for every time the refills are bad I will have to wait 10-20 frames at the door for the right pattern... thats not good at all...
EDIT: Just to be sure(or else I will feel really stupid) does it have to be the absolute first hit on him that has to be delayed or does the second one work to? If it has to be the first I will hang myself for my mistake, luckily my belt won't hold though so I will get away with some mild neck injuries... come to think of it I will hang myself in any case... poor me.
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Thanks, this information helped me finish phantoon in 3 minutes after I read it :P
EDIT: or so I though, I forgot one missile refill, but now that I've gotten that I for some reason can't get the last missile and supermissile in, no matter what...
EDIT2: NOOOO delaying the first missile (or even having more or less missiles left after the end of the battle) does NOT change the drops, at least it sure as hell doesn't for me.
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I have noticed a very anoying thing about the phantoon battle, sometimes you can simply push forward every 2 frames and hold fire turbo and everything will be fine, but sometimes that does not work at and he escapes after a random amount of missiles... Related to this perhaps is another weird thing, the cool down counter for the missiles does sometimes not move for a frame and sometimes moves 2 times on 1 frame(only in phantoon battle), and it has seemingly nothing to do with lag...
Anyway what is the slowest you are allowed to run, 1forward 3 nothing right?
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No, 20 compared to your old.. Doesn't JXQ lay a PB there?
EDIT:I just checked and it was kind of weird but it seems the way I do it is 3 frames slower then JXQ while it is ~20 faster then you. After I do phanhtoon again I will test to see whats faster in my run if I get enough PB's.
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Im still going for ingame, and I hope to get 00:23 but I don't have I good idea of how hard that would be.
Realtime my guess would be ~41-41:30 since IIRC my last run was ~42:30
The PB in the basemen saves ~20 frames I think.
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Okay, but will it suffice to delay the second missile by # frames or will I have to enter later (Lazy to ask i know).
With 2 PB drops you can use one in the room after phantoon right?
Anyway I'm coming along quite nicely and am currently ~31.5 seconds faster then your old run. I don't know in how many rooms up to this point you found different strategies but I found some at least.
EDIT: Just remembered, 3 PB's would be better since then I could use 1 in each of the first 3 rooms after phantoon.
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Need to ask, after phantoon I have 111 energy, is it even worth to continiue or should I redo the fight and probably loose 10+ frames or can I continiue... Feels like it would be almost impossible to refill that much energy without slowdown.
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Probably the only parts he have to change are the parts where I or moozooh have found improvements, which also will lead to slight changes in randomness and probably he will have to do phantoon over totally due to that, but except that he should have little to worry about.
EDIT: Yay I'm mentioned in moozooh's improvements list :P
Swordless Link and AKA wins.
Yes vote :)