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Baxter wrote:
Alden wrote:
do these smart people owe it to the rest of the world to try and fix things for everyone?
Dear Fabian, I'll ask a question related to this quote.
Doesn't every person think of themselves as being either smart, or 'right'? People of two completely opposite opinions could say they are 100% sure they are right about something, and think the other isn't smart enough to understand. You mostly think per definition that you are right, since otherwise you would change your opinion (right?). So how do you truly know that you are either 'smart' or 'right' about something?
This is all definitely true. I think for the most part it's just people's inability to relate to stuff they're not familiar with. Like when someone you're discussing whatever with has a different way of looking at things it's tough for most people to grasp it and evaluate it objectively. Extra good example is religion, it's just completely impossible for theists and atheists to debate most of the time because a theist's way of thinking is just fundamentally different from mine, for example.
In general the best way to find out if you're wrong (=an idiot/not smart) a lot is to listen to what people smarter than you are tell you. If they tell you you're wrong, you probably need to seriously rethink stuff with an open mind. Of course you need to figure out who is smart to begin with, and we're back where we started. As long as someone is on either extreme (obviously wrong or obviously right) it works fine, but that's not the case most of the time of course.
So to sum up, you probably don't truly know if you're right or smart about stuff as long as you have other people in the same approximate intelligence bracket strongly disagree with you.
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alden wrote:
Dear Fabian,
First, let me say that you are quite an eloquent speaker, probably moreso in your native Swedish, but quite amazingly so in English.
I daresay I always thought you were from England or the "USA" from the way your wrote, but maybe that was just my horrible prejudice.
So my question today is:
What do we do now?
There are quite a few really smart people in the world (and lots of them on this site)... do these smart people owe it to the rest of the world to try and fix things for everyone?
Or maybe we can sit around and TAS...?
Humbly yours,
Alden in Paradise
First, thanks a lot, I appreciate it.
Second, I do think smart people have a responsibility to improve things. Actually everyone have an ethical responsibility to improve things to the best of their ability, it's just smart people = greater ability.
This rarely works out very well though since being selfish is both easy and rewarding.
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Cardboard wrote:
Dear Fabian,
Frozen prinsesstårta, acceptable or not?
And do you have any expectations on my next Metroid2-run?
Also if it is not too personal, how did you vote in the latest election?
Yours truly,
Kardborre
Frozen prinsesstårta, not that acceptable. I won't be trying it again :) Non-frozen prinsesstårta is of course awesome.
I've never seen Metroid 2, hell I barely know which console it's for. So I don't have any specific expectations other than it'll probably rock, being a solid improvement and everything.
I've shared some quite a bit more personal stuff than how I vote in this thread :) Anyway I didn't vote, I don't have any strong political convictions and in general I don't think there's much value in voting for one individual. If I voted it would be for vänsterpartiet or miljöpartiet I guess, I dunno. That's based more on ideological reasons than specific stuff they stand for right now, since I have almost no idea what specifically they're trying to push etc.
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" That's a real argument winner right there. "
I think this is pretty unfair of you considering you asked me to show examples of what I meant and that's why I brought it up. There are no examples of any kind of nonsense later on as far as I know and I strongly disagree that this first couple of nonsense sentences were as subjective as the rest.
I consider my actions productive enough and I don't consider the point questionable except to you obviously. That's just natural, no one takes criticism objectively.
I have no problem coming off as an asshole in my discussions with you. I agree I kinda do.
Anyway I'm done with this. Thanks for the suggestions.
Until next time,
Fabian
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If you were inaccurate in your choice of words, would you say it's fair for someone who read those words to conclude you were talking rambling nonsense? If not, why is that?
I'm sure pasting the rest of the conversation would help you out on that, but the rest of the conversation, it sounds like, deals with the 100% subjective stuff. Why would you (or me) need help justifying your position there? No one is calling it into question, it's subjective.
"Everyone" is obviously a lie, you're right. "So often" is subjective, and I have no problem with my choice of words there. I hear you on the elitist thing, I just don't agree. Again it's a matter of opinion. It's understandable you don't feel you act in a certain way, it's probably understandable how I might disagree too.
"... and never discard anyone else's opinion on grounds of being unworthy"
This is where we don't agree. Of course I don't recall (m)any specific examples, if you felt like searching for our ~10 heated discussions we could maybe do some evaluating, but it seems pointless. The watermark thing is the only thing (and most recent I think?) that springs to mind. Wasn't there something else just a couple days before that? I'm not sure.
I share your position that "idiots should stfu"? Eh, yeah I guess. I have no idea about the specific issue about the votes etc.
Yeah I guess it's a "crusade for justice against you" if you want to put it like that. Like I said it pisses me off when you act like you do and say what you do to people. I'm not trying to achieve anything special except point out to you that you're being an asshole and if you considered it and maybe changed that would be a great bonus too.
"You're saying you're not looking to blow holes in my argumentation, yet you have them in yours,"
Don't really understand this, doesn't seem like two connected statements at all. Anyway what I'm looking for is to tell you you're being an asshole. It's fine if you think my argument sucks, though I wish you wouldn't.
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flagitious wrote:
Dear Fabian,
I hope you don't mind me butting in.
supermegavkoy wrote:
but on the other hand do we all know that if your parents raise you in a bad way, punishing you, teach you bad values and so on, then they are exactly like a tumour poisoning your mind as well, and can you then really blame that child if he becomes a murderer, shouldn't you blame the parents?
But how can you blame the parents? Their actions are a result of they way their parents raised them. There is a philosophical view that believes no one is responsible for their actions, they are all results of their environment. If you believe in God you could say God caused everything to happen the way it did, if you do not, you could say physics determined everything based on the initial conditions. Even if you think the same initial conditions can lead to different results, it still doesn't mean you had a choice, it is just random. I think it is called determinism.
This is a fine theory, but it does not mean people should not be punished for their crimes. The true purpose of laws and punishment is not justice. It is to deter crimes from happening in the first place. If you say oh well his parents raised him that way he shouldn't be punished. Then many more people will realize they won't be punished and thus will start killing people.
PS my question for Fabian, is does it annoy you when people answer questions for you? Or is it ok to jump in?
It annoys me when it's someone I don't like posting just to add a useless smartass comment to the discussion or pointing out some really obvious small nitpick thing everyone else has already realized. Obviously not the case here. If it's a solid contribution it's fine.
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supermegavkoy wrote:
Dear Fabian,
you seem to be more than just a decent guy. Your way of thinking does really appeal to me, even though I disagree with you at some occasions, for instance:
I am absolutly against capital punishment, if you think logically, the worst thing you can do (probably) is to end somebody's life (maybe it's worse to like destroy all cultural heritage or something) and every person has the right to life whatever he or she has done. To put a murderer in the electric chair is comparable to the scenario where a four-year-old child pinches a two-year-old child in the sandpit (sandbox) and the last-mentiond's mother avenge her child's suffering by pinching the four-year-old. In addition you can be more philosophical and ask the question if you ever can use capital punoshment when it's not a matter of course that you ever can truly blame the murderer what he has done, in one episode of House MD this question in raised when they find that the reason why a murderer who will be executed did murder was becasue of a tumour which let uncontrolled amounts of hormones out in his body poisoning his mind. He could not do anyting about it, but on the other hand do we all know that if your parents raise you in a bad way, punishing you, teach you bad values and so on, then they are exactly like a tumour poisoning your mind as well, and can you then really blame that child if he becomes a murderer, shouldn't you blame the parents?
Well, that was just a little brainstorming from me, I hope it's readabl, I'm from Sweden too so English is my second language. Actually I'm from Gothenburg, but I don't know if would make you laugh just by opening my mouth, my Göteborska isn't that obvious (at least not if you compare it to Albert & Herbert or Veiron i Ottan).
So my questions are:
1. Did your opinion on capital punishment change in anyway after reading this post?
2. Do you watch House MD (House in Sweden)?
3. Do you like Nile City 105,6?
4. Do you play any instrument? (The reason why I ask is because you said something earlier about not knowing what to do with your life, or that you wanted to dedicate your life to something (maybe you didn't actually say this, but that's the feeling I get), and I think that learning to play an instrument is really rewarding on many different levels (at least for me who started playing guitar just a couple of mounths ago (I'm 20 years old so it's never to late). It's the same thing with painting, so my personally advice to you is to start doing something cultural like playing music, paint, writing poems or something like that.)
PS: I hope all this made any sense to you (epecially to Fabian), I know that I abuse parenthesises(?) which can be a bit confusing.
1. flagitious already touched on some of the stuff I was going to post. I think it's helpful to ask yourself the question "is (capital) punishment for the good of the individual or the good of society?". Or put another way, is it to punish criminals or is it to deter future criminals? You wrote that the worst thing you can do is to take someone's life. For that particular person, sure, but for the good of society in general? You also wrote that every person has the right to live no matter what (I bolded it since it's an important point), and that's a fine philosophical opinion, though I don't share it. I don't think there are many absolute truths like that, at least not when you add the "no matter what" part. Since this is a critically important point in the argument, as long as none of us change our minds about it we can't really come to an agreement on capital punishment.
It's true what you write (about pinching children) that part of the purpose of capital punishment is to get revenge for the victim's family or something. I think the more significant/more important reason for society as a whole is to scare future criminals. To get back to the question I started by posting, I think the main purpose of capital punishment is for the good of society at large, it's not about giving the families involved some closure and sense of avenging their raped and strangled daughter or whatever. It's likely a pretty hollow sense of victory in the long run for them anyway.
About the other question you raised, of criminals not being responsible for their actions, that seems to be pretty common nowadays. These people are sent to psychological treatments rather than jail/death row if they're determined to not have been of sound mind. This is probably a good alternative in many practical scenarios, but it doesn't change my stance in anyway in a theoretical scenario where you know he's "guilty". Remember, that's what I wrote in my original answer to the question, you need to be sure there are no innocent convicted.
Same thing goes for being raised by negligent parents. I'm sure some of the time it's serious enough to cause some lasting actual damage, getting back to the scenario where the criminal would be sent for psychological treatment. In general though I'm guessing it just increases the chances of him growing up to be more likely to commit (serious) crimes. Obviously you'd need a solid psychological evaluation before passing judgment in cases like these.
Let me know if you want to discuss further, I don't really think we can find much more to agree on though with our drastically different assumptions.
2. I don't watch House. I've considered giving it a shot, but I've heard it's not a great show so it hasn't happened yet. I imagine I might enjoy it though, I'm sure I'll catch a few episodes at some point and see what I think.
3. I do like Nile City. It's been many years since I watched it now, but I used to have lots of fun quoting this with my friends in 8th grade to early high school or something. I wouldn't mind watching it again some time, though I'm guessing it's lost some of its charm at this point :)
4. I've played the piano since I was very young, my dad being a piano teacher. Mentioned it earlier somewhere. I'm quite interested in music and would love to do something specific with it at some point in the future. I suck at painting though :)
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Look there's no need to do this point by point. I think it's a bit shitty of you to change "speed is subjective" to "perception of speed is subjective" since it's just a 180 degree turnaround and completely changes what you're talking about, but whatever it's fine. We disagree and I can accept that.
We also disagree about what's important when it comes to timing method/level of optimization/goal importance/etc but that stuff is 100% subjective so there's no point bringing that up in here trying to convince the other he's "wrong" or anything.
Anyway to answer your other concerns, the tirade was embarrassing for you.
I am eager to shut you up a lot of the time because you are an elitist asshole who attack others for things you are guilty of yourself. If you didn't get up on your high horses and had to put everyone down so often we'd get along just fine. This is really the main point, I'm not looking to blow holes in your argumentation just for the fun of it or because I "just don't like you".
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The bolded parts are not valid, backed up points. It's just rambling nonsense from someone who's pissed because the run he's lobbying to get accepted is about to be rejected. It's not what we usually see from you moozooh, I agree you often are more rational than this.
[16:31:14] <moozooh> <Baxter> if it's really different, then make another category
[16:31:25] <moozooh> yeah, because we know it's so easy.
[16:31:37] <Baxter> '?
[16:31:43] <moozooh> seriously, we WISH it was possible to create a new category.
[16:32:22] <Baxter> if it's not possible, then just reject this one... doesn't seem like even a remotely hard decision to me
[16:32:22] <moozooh> what the fuck, "then make another category"? there is but one man who can do that and he won't, at least not now.
[16:32:31] <moozooh> and you're saying it as if we were creating new categories on a daily basis.
[16:32:43] <moozooh> in fact, there would be no arguments if we could.
[16:33:10] <moozooh> ok, give me a GOOD reason it should be rejected.
[16:33:19] <Baxter> it's slower than the current run
[16:33:21] <Fabian_> it's worse than hero's run
[16:33:34] <Baxter> and it's goal is less interesting
[16:33:34] <Fabian_> it would be good in a separate category though
[16:33:38] <Fabian_> but you covered that already
[16:33:41] <moozooh> Fabian_: "worse"? can you back up that claim?
[16:33:44] <Fabian_> no
[16:33:48] <Fabian_> it's my opinion
[16:33:50] <Fabian_> it's subjective
[16:33:52] <Fabian_> I think it's worse
[16:34:10] <moozooh> the goal is less interesting is also a subjective opinion.
[16:34:12] <Fabian_> yes
[16:34:14] <Fabian_> no arguments
[16:34:23] <Baxter> moozooh: of course it is
[16:34:30] <moozooh> it being slower is also subjective because in the actual rooms, where the gameplay happens, it's faster.
[16:34:34] <adelikat> I agree with Fabian (no joke intended)
[16:34:49] <adelikat> it is indeed less entertaining (to me)
[16:35:13] <Baxter> moozooh: it being slower isn't subjective imo
[16:35:46] <Fabian_> it's slower real time and faster in-game time, I don't see a way to make that a matter of opinion
[16:38:31] <moozooh> Baxter: yet it is. yet again, if hero made a run on 1.51 that was slower in realtime due to the emulator-added lag, you likely wouldn't that argument, because (guess what) speed is subjective. but i have no intention to fight other people's opinions, so i won't continue this argument either.
[16:38:49] <moozooh> present that argument*
[16:38:59] <Fabian_> wow you're really grabbing for straws here moozooh =/
[16:39:01] <adelikat> moozooh, you do realize that argument is weak right?
16:40:08] <moozooh> no, it's just an example that the numbers you see in the "time" field don't always constitute the level of optimization, entertainmment or anything else.
[16:40:45] <moozooh> and your general argument is "this number is bigger, boo hoo".
[16:40:50] <Fabian_> you will have to explain to me how the numbers I see in the "time" field should ever constitute the level of optimization etc
[16:40:54] <Fabian_> you're just talking about different things here
[16:40:57] <Fabian_> so.. what?
[16:41:03] <Fabian_> speed is
[16:41:03] <Fabian_> sped
[16:41:05] <Fabian_> +e
[16:41:54] <Fabian_> to further clarfiy moozooh, no one is saying the numbers you see in the "time" field has anything to do with the level of optimization
[16:41:59] <Fabian_> because saying that would mean you were insane
[16:42:03] <Fabian_> as it has nothing to do with reality
[16:42:06] <Fabian_> it's just making sentences up as you go
[16:42:19] <moozooh> ok, to bring you some examples
[16:42:49] <moozooh> <Baxter> it's slower than the current run <-- based on numbers, not gameplay.
[16:43:43] <Baxter> moozooh: read my post at the forum, it explains my opinion better than that one line of text
[16:43:53] <Fabian_> and the reason it's based on numbers, not gameplay, is the numbers you see in the "time" field has nothing to do with the level of optimization, it has to do with the numers you see in the "time" field
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moozooh wrote:
Who was it embarrassing for? You?
I made valid, backed up points, none of them based on false accusations.
Sorry man but that's just an outright lie.
All I'm saying is if it's ok for you to go on like that when you find something you find unjust and still are way off about, jumping at people's throats for making like 2 posts because they "struck a nerve" is just bullshit.
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wtf moozooh how can you go on about stuff like this after that incredibly embarrassing tirade you went on yesterday on IRC? You made like 60 times less sense than Twelvepack, have made easily 60 times more posts about it and yet you don't shut up, so what's the deal?
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Vatchern,
No one cares what you think. I've provided 10 times more value in this thread alone than you have in your 928 posts on this forum. The fact that you haven't even bothered to read it before going off with your borderline retarded statements is just extra stupid, but I'm not surprised.
Take your moronic attention seeking bickering to the "Fabian sucks lol" thread if you want to but don't try to bring your shit to this thread because no one cares.
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mr_roberts_z wrote:
Fabian wrote:
mr_roberts_z wrote:
Dear Fabian:
Hän , jotta sinun kehittynyt asiantuntemus -lta kielenkäyttö aikaa antaa , on minun Finnish joten aivan niin hirmuinen?
Many of your questions kinda suck. Especially this one.
Well, that's fair; that last one was kind of a dumb joke (thus, the "scratch that"), though most of my last questions were pretty serious. Oh well, this will probably be my last question/post on this thread.
Dear Fabian:
What is an exemplary question for this thread?
Bisqwit wrote:
mr_roberts_z wrote:
Dear Fabian:
Hän , jotta sinun kehittynyt asiantuntemus -lta kielenkäyttö aikaa antaa , on minun Finnish joten aivan niin hirmuinen?
You are saying:
He, in order that your developed expertise -from use of language gives time, is my "Finnish", so that almost as terrible?
(As precise translation of what you wrote as possible (precise not possible because English grammar restricts on the word order, losing some of the ill-adviced nuances). Yes, SysTran is absolutely horrible at translating from/to Finnish.)
I've kind of found that SysTran pretty much fails at every language (along with most other free internet ones). IIRC, I put in something like "why, in your advanced knowledge of the subject, is my Finnish so sickeningly awful?".
Feel free to keep asking if you think of something worth asking. Asking me stupid questions about facts I obviously don't know and you can obviously find by googling is maybe not the way to go though, you know.
I thought the question Warp asked earlier was pretty awesome/perfect for this thread. I'm a computer nerd loser and I want to change, what should I do? That stuff can lead to great discussions I think, and probably is of some value to most members here.
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LagDotCom wrote:
Automated translation gets a lot better if you carefully pick the words which comprise the starting phrase. As an example, "I do good things like that" will likely come out as complete gibberish, while "I accomplish similar altruistic endeavours" might give you the right words, at least.
Dear Fabian,
I'm not entirely sure what to ask you. I'll try to come up with something that actually pertains to you.
Do you feel that TASing has changed your lifestyle? Has it encouraged you to study/investigate topics which did not interest you beforehand, or affected your emotional makeup in some way?
I don't think TASing has changed my lifestyle in any kind of way. TASing has just been another really nerdy hobby amongst others for me. I think I've always enjoyed trying to solve puzzle like tasks, so nothing has really changed. The one thing I might maybe add is it's taught me a bit about being patient and not expect huge results right away, since TASing definitely is more of a marathon than a sprint.
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Cpadolf wrote:
Dear Fabian:
Varför finns det så många duktiga TASare från Sverige och Finland men inte från (vad jag vet) Danmark och Norge? Är folk från Finland och Sverige helt enkelt bättre?
The reason there are many more Swedish and Finnish TASers than Norwegian/Danish ones is probably.. well I don't know. This community started out in Finland so I'm sure that has had something to do with it. This answer kinda sucks but it's a tough question.
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skamastaG wrote:
Dear Fabian_,
Why am I so awesome?
To be honest I don't know you that well. I mean we talk a lot since we TAS the same game and everything, but still I don't know very much about you apart from that you seem like a very cool kid.
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JXQ wrote:
Dear Fabian,
What are some of your favorite places to travel? What are places you'd like to travel in the future?
Prinsesstårta,
JXQ
I've been to Malaysia twice. That was super duper awesome, but I think a big part of that was living for free in a super awesome hotel (my dad was there for work so they comped it). I've taken lots of sun/bathing vacations to various touristy spots with my family throughout the years. Multiple times in Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, stuff like that. I like being able to just relax and don't do anything special when on vacation, but I'm guessing in the future if I were to travel that would not be the primary reason.
I want to visit the US at some point. I've never been and I'm definitely not convinced I'd like it, especially not long term. It should be experienced though, I'd like to live in New York or Los Angeles for maybe a few months to try it out.
In general though my dream places to travel to would mostly be chosen for their beauty. I've seen some insanely hot pictures posted by someone recently back from vacations, of sunsets on the beach in tropical environments or amazing waterfalls in the rain forest. I'd love to see stuff like that even though I'm not normally that much of a nature person.
I also enjoyed visiting Thailand last winter, I hope to go back for a more extended period in the future. I often don't enjoy visiting big cities very much, but living in Bangkok for a while before moving out to one of the islands (which would also qualify under the beauty clause above) would be a pretty ideal 3-6 month visit. I've read very much about westerners' (mostly Americans) experiences of living in Thailand, and it has made me very eager to try it out myself. Who knows if I'll ever get my ass out of my chair and actually go through with it though, I'm absolutely horrible with following through with my plans. Especially now that I have school etc.
I hope to be able to travel a lot in the future. Ideally my line of work would allow me to take enough time off to do so.
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Dacicus wrote:
I thought about making a topic called "Ask X" in order to stop the copycats, but there is that problem you mentioned (assuming people would actually stop making individual topics).
So you'd be copying Upthorn's thread sentence by sentence then?
