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I watched the run, and it's basically the same thing as the old movie, with the same mistakes, and none of the new tricks or strategies that has developed over the years.
Due to lack of optimization it's also slower than the old run, even though it uses the Japanese version.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=26556776686719098173
I don't know if this is a good site, but here's at least a short .bkm I made a while back that should help SierraNTS in learning about optimizing RNG, lag and the movement of the character. I hope you see this, and that you find it helpful.
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The power bomb opens the door to blue brinstar, and doing it at that point will allow quicker access to blue brinstar by the end of the game, when cleaning up blue brinstar and the crateria shaft, seeing as you wont have to wait for the power bomb to clear the door.
Edit: Wrong clip, I guess
Falling onto spikes from a specific height will push Samus downward when unmorphing, allowing you to run on the very first frame of unmorphing. This for some reason allows for keeping momentum even after a jump, and so, even speed booster build up counters.
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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Anyway there's probably no use for that Pseudo Screw Attack + Charge Beam glitch unfortunately but, it is cool. Hopefully there will be some use for it somewhere in the run but, I doubt it.
I used it to kill Ridley in my old Super Metroid: Redesign WIP, but unfortunately bosses aren't susceptible to the 'Pseudo Screw Attack', and I can't think of anywhere else you would have to shoot so soon after doing it, as the window for shooting a normal shot after would only be about 10 frames or so.
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PAL: If forward is pressed from frame 0 and on, dash should be pressed on frames 20, 40, 60 and 70. On frame 70, both dash and down can be pressed together and Samus will charge her speed in preparation for a shinespark.
PAL — press forward for 3 frames, release for one frame, 4 more, release, 3 more, release, 2 more, release, 3 more, release (3-4-3-2-3-). The minimum distance required to charge the spark using this technique is 157.668 pixels.
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boct1584 wrote:
Haven't watched your latest WIP, but I did watch the 8-Maverick one, and I was very impressed. One thing I'm curious about, from when you collected the Torso upgrade: how did you use firing a level 1 charge shot to reset the air-dash check?
It's the second shot of third level charge, the "purple/pink" one.
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Sonikkustar wrote:
Nice work so far. Any plans for improving the any%?
Even though there's alot of room for improvement in the currently published run, it's mostly optimizing movement, and even though there's probably a myriad of tricks or in-level routes to improve on, as long as no one takes the time to actually try and do something, the only difference would be a more refined run.
A link for reference
I had a couple of hours to spare today, so I thought I'd see what I could do with the first couple of levels of the game. I didn't use any memory watch for this, so it's probably quite a bit slower than it should be at certain points.
I only compared it to the published run at the point where it stops. It's about a second faster, but as you can see if you watch it, there's really nothing noticeable.
Minor edit: Yes, I used Mothrayas' video file, I couldn't be bothered with the intro.
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So in this case it basically means you can waste up to 20 frames in the level, minus one per killed enemy and still save time entering the boss room?
So if you had wasted 18 frames killing an extra enemy, you'd still end up one frame faster into the boss room? (Waiting for the optimal pattern.)
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I wasn't too sure of all of the movement optimization, for example dashing onto ladders and some of the wall climbing.
I haven't TAS'ed a Mega Man game for quite a while though, so I'll trust that it's faster.
I don't really have anything to add unfortunately, other than that I found it very enjoyable to watch.
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petrie911 wrote:
I'm decently sure having 20 missiles makes Omega fast enough to justify another expansion. 20 is the minimum needed to blow off all of his plates with rapid fire missiles, since there's no refills. Switching to the plasma beam and using charges from it takes time, probably about 5-6 seconds, and we have to make sure Omega doesn't start trying to absorb it. Ridley takes 22 missiles (well, 21 + 1 for the lock on Artifact Temple), so a 15 missile route would need 2 refills. And then there's the Phazon Elite, who needs 24, and thus also needs 2 refills if we go with 15 total.
There are 2 pirates on the floor down at the Phazon Elite, as well as some boxes.
Ridley can easily be done with 15 missiles, and I suppose you're going to skip the cutscene at Omega for massive lulz. I'm not saying it's not worth picking up 20 missiles, but I strongly believe 15 is more than enough.
petrie911 wrote:
Watery Hall Access and the one near Frigate Crash Site are practically givens, and the infinite speed one is a given too should we choose that route. Otherwise, MQA and the one in Tallon Overworld near the elevator to Magmoor (the aforementioned "root cave tunnel") seem super fast to get. Sparky's run (which I'm kind of using as a baseline here) gets both of those, BTW. They're in segments 11 and 8 respectively.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AE49401E4A8E6B9A
There are many missile packs that are right along the way, but obviously some are faster than others, I would suggest timing the difference between picking and not picking them up in many cases. (Like for example "Root Cave Tunnel" forces an unmorph (You can probably force an instant unmorph there though.), which might cost more than you think if you're boosting through that room with no regards for anything. It's still very quick though.)
petrie911 wrote:
As for the other things, Space Jump obviously saves time. I think charge beam speeds up enough bosses (especially Ridley, Prime, and Chozo ghosts) and other things to be worth it. Boost Ball seems like an overall timesaver, and we're obviously getting it if we do an infinite speed route.
Charge beam makes pretty much every forced fight alot faster, especially if you can pre-charge your beam and such. Boost Ball is needed for a Ridley Quick kill, and I believe that fight only is enough to warrant picking it up, and then there's the added mobility. Space Jump first is a no-brainer.
petrie911 wrote:
Thermal Visor is pending an investigation of the Prime Core fight.
If you can manage a 2 pool with it, but not without it, I'd say go for it. (If nothing else because it'll look awesome.) If you can't, go without it and 3 pool the boss.
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The fastest three missile expansions would be:
Main Plaza (One mandatory), Watery hall access on the way back towards Incinerator Drone and the one in the tunnel between the Chozo Ruins elevator and Crashed Frigate if you're going through there.
Due to load times being non-existant at this point, Life Grove Tunnel is probably out of the question, but with loading times it's the fastest one to get. If you get one from the infinite speed glitch, I would leave that one out.
Otherwise I'd probably recommend Metroid Quarantine A.
Right now I don't really see any benefit from having more than 15 missiles though (Have Ridley smash a statue to reload during his battle), unless it makes Omega Pirate alot faster. I'm probably missing something though.
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Why not just use 3 power bombs on Omega? I'm pretty sure you'll find luck manipulation on drops helpful here. With some good timing you should be able to have the X-ray active as he spawns, instantly forcing him to teleport?
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petrie911 wrote:
Now, during the actual Ice form, the Ice Spreader probably isn't saving much time over 10 + 30 + 10 + 24. Where the Ice Spreader saves time is the Wave form that comes after it. By nailing Prime with the Ice Spreader just before he changes color, we can skip having to do 5 charged wave beams. If we only use a full charge from the ice beam, we still have to use 3 wave beam full charges.
And we get to do this twice; once in subchamber 2 and once in subchamber 3. That's 6 fully charged wave beams we save, which is about 16 seconds.
If I'm right, this will cost you 40 missiles over the course of the battle? How many missiles are you planning on picking up?
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Miles wrote:
I'm pretty sure Prime is weak to the Ice Spreader, but not the Ice Beam itself. I think each subround has 110 HP (I've never tested it extensively; it should be around that much though), which is more than the 75 damage Ice Spreader should do, yet it instantly ends the round anyway.
...Actually, what happens on Hard? Does a single Ice Spreader do enough damage or does it take two?
It takes two Ice Spreaders on hard mode. It's possible it takes two on PAL as well.
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petrie911 wrote:
Graveworm: The power is just the damage divided by the number of seconds per shot. Though, I'm not sure what you mean by the delay from the freeze animation. You can fire another Ice Spreader well before the ice from the last one has gone away. Unless it actually works differently in the Prime fight, which I haven't checked.[/list]
Yeah, I just thought I'd use the same terms as you had used. Sorry about the quotation marks, they don't really mean anything.
For all I remember using the Ice Spreader on Metroid Prime freezes the boss in place for a set amount of time, during this time you can't fire and you can't charge your beam.
Of course the only difference this does on Prime due to the "post phase" event and rush attack is that shooting an Ice Spreader means:
Firing a pre-charged shot/, the weapon combo animation, air time and freezing the boss for what I think is several seconds, for 75 damage.
And if missiles allow fire another pre-charged shot with the exact same events.
The other option, without Ice Spreader should entail:
Firing a pre-charged shot/charging, 30 damage, doing 1 charge and 2 normal shots, which should equal Ice Spreaders damage. 30 + 10 + 30 + 10 damage?
On the next phase you're ending up dealing 30 or 40 damage, depending on how soon you can actually fire the charge shot, meaning you're half way through that phase without Ice Spreader.
It's possible you could save time through using charged Ice, due to not having to wait for the boss to thaw, after an Ice Spreader hit, but if not, you're probably picking up one or two missile packs less, and you wont have to go pick up the Ice Spreader.
If I'm not missing anything here, I could very much see it being faster even in game not picking up the Ice Spreader, and definitely faster in real time.
On another note, I think I'll see if I can get Dolphin up and running again, I would love to try boosting over the bars in Great Tree Hall, using TAS tools.
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petrie911 wrote:
Weapon Type - HP - Time - Power
Ice Beam - 10 - 60 - 10.00
Weak Charge - 18 - 105 - 15.00
Full Charge - 30 - 160 - 16.00
Ice Spreader - 75 - 233 - 19.31
Is the Ice spreader "power" accounting for the time lost during the "freeze animation" as well? (Primarily during the Metroid Prime battle.)
I've always thought it takes forever before you can fire anything after using the Ice Spreader.
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petrie911 wrote:
@Graveworm: The Ice Spreader saves time because it allows you to skip Wave and Power forms in subchambers 2 and 3, which I don't think is possible with just the Ice Beam. If it is, though, then the Ice Spreader is definitely out.
I don't think it's even possible for Thermal Visor to save time.
While I of course have no experience regarding TAS'ing, I've always found it very hard to even 3-pool Prime without Thermal visor, because the spread of the weapon is huge, I believe it's faster to 3-pool the boss without Thermal than to 2-pool it with Thermal because of the cutscene.
The Ice spreader is not likely to save any time at all, and I would consider it a waste of time, moreso because of the cutscene and the item pick ups. However most of this is of course not counted towards the in game timer, but for a smooth looking run I would not bother with it.
The charged Ice Beam in fact deals alot of damage to Prime, and because of the Freeze animation from Ice spreader, I believe it might be almost as fast if you get a perfect Ice phase, whether you use it or not, counting zero misses. You'll still be able to launch a charged Ice on the Power Beam/Wave Beam phase, and since you'll know what comes next start charging your beam even before the switch is through.
The key in skipping Ice spreader is of course manipulating perfect behaviour, and never missing a shot. Most of this would be real time savings though, and not in game.
About what takes longer in hard mode:
1. Parasite queen takes marginally longer, but with perfect aim you wouldn't even need to scan her.
2. Missile Turrets during the escape take 2 missiles to destroy.
3. The Chozo Ghosts after Flaaghra take a little longer to kill.
4. The battle against the four small monsters before Wave Beam will take 4 missiles instead of 2 each.
5. The Chozo Ghost right before Ice Beam will take a little longer to kill.
6. The bot guarding the Power Bomb maze will take longer to kill, you're going to want to use 4 charged Ice Beam shots here, because of the Elite Pirate on the way back.
7. Wave Beam pirate fight will take longer if you take that route, and the Pirate battle for the Artifact of warrior will take longer.
8. Omega Pirates shields will take longer to knock off, using the cutscene skip there is no way he's going to use the deflecting shield anyway.
9. Ridley and Prime have twice the amount of health, Ridley is a 2 minute fight anyway, but Prime will of course take longer.
These are the things I can think of right now, there's probably more, but most of this game is about fast movement, and not killing things, making the biggest difference between normal and hard survival. I prefer hard mode, but I can see alot of people just wanting to see the fastest normal mode run.
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I would not recommend picking up the Ice spreader, it mostly makes up for the hardships of hitting the Ice beam anyway. This problem will not persist through a TAS.
I'd go with 10/15 missiles, no energy tanks and probably skipping the Thermal visor, unless someone manages a 2-pool kill on Prime with it. I think this is possible in fact, but I've not managed it myself.
And as for playing from SRAM, I would probably like to see a run start from a fresh memory, and then do other runs on hard, as an extension to this run. This will probably end up a possible hard mode run being faster than the normal mode run, but it will show the differences in the tricks you can perform with skipping cutscenes at certain points. This will also allow the people who are familiar with the game to see the game played on hardest difficulty, which I believe is recommended when making a TAS.
I'll see if I can't start playing around with this game as well, it should end up being pretty cool.
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Here's a run for an all item collection run I started last summer, progress has been very slow due to many factors, but I'm working on it from time to time. It currently stops somewhere in Brinstar, and should amount to about a third of the game.
It's very unoptimized, both in theory and practice, meaning I miss out on alot of techniques and strategies throughout the course of the run, but it's also very badly optimized in terms of playing. Much due to my inexperience with this game, and alot unfortunately due to lack of planning of weapons management, which looks really bad.
The worst optimized parts are - Beginning -> Norfair.
And the most optimized parts would be - ????
Unfortunately I do not find this very entertaining as a TAS, this game seems much more well suited for a speed playthrough rather than one collecting all items.
There are not much to show off thus far in the game, and even though there are alot of other things that stand out alot more later on in the game, with many tricks and sequence breaks I've not yet shared with the public, it would seem likely to me that this would just end up being a show off of tricks that no one's seen because they haven't even tried, which effect would of course quickly wear off once everyone has seen it.
However there are some new strategies here and there for getting through the game, and alot of them blatantly stolen from other runs of the game. Please do fast-forward the boss fights though, they are terribly inconsistent.
Because of the lacking interest in this game there are also alot of rooms missing any kind of strategy, and so I've had to make my own. This is unfortunately not my strongest point, and it's obvious I'm making alot of bad choices in the run. However the absurd rerecord to optimization ratio is of course subject to my testing.
Anyway, I hope you can enjoy watching this, and it would be great if you could leave any kind of criticism to whether or not you think that this would be a run worth finishing or not.
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I've always felt like the Lich scenario was way easier than the Prince one, and even though the mage guy at the end of the castle in the jungle on the Lich scenario is a really slow fight due to all the summons, the castle always seemed to me like the fastest endscenario. And the Lich is just laughable as well, and you really don't need to spend alot of time healing in that fight.
And even though I love this game to death I've never played it any more than just casually, so to me I wouldn't know where to start if I were to try and make a TAS of this game. I'd be lost of when to transform my characters, or if you would do it more than once. Of course stat downs and high physical damage is preferrable for speed, but you already know that. ;)
I don't know the names of the characters, since I don't speak Japanese, but the Lich is the scenario with the jester and the castle in the jungle, and the prince one is the desert fortress scenario. The one with the amazongirl or thief.
