Posts for Slowking


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There are a lot of "any%" runs that are not labaled "glitched", yet abuse heavy glitches. For example the OoT TAS where RAM is edited. Ofcourse these runs are in the (category?) "Heavy glitch abuse", but that is where it should stay. It makes no sense to label them "glitched", since one of this sites principle goals is to complete a game as fast as possible. So completing the game as fast as possible shouldn't be something special, which would warrent a special category. It should be the norm. When a TAS doesn't complete the game as fast as possible, that is something out of the ordinary and thus that deserves the special category. Not the other way around. Btw. could this be moved into "general"? Nobody looks in "sites" and it really is more of a general issue than just concerning the sites.
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Well in german it says "can also be seen on []". I would guess that, since there is a lot of cross-copying between nico and youtube, they agreed to put links to each other. But might also be what you think. Which would be sucky. I hope the japanese guy gave proper credit. We have had quite a few isntances where they didn't...
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"glitched" is just a really stupid name. Everything on this site is at least slightly glitched. I think that the fastest run should always be labeled "any%" without any additions to the name. Any% means beating the game as fast as possible. It doesn't have to be explained. Runs that do have to be explained, are those that forego beating the game the fastest way possible. Those need additions like "doesn't use this glitch" or "beats all bosses" or somthing along these lines.
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I'm kinda with Glitcher here, but not fully. I do think there is room for two categorys here. However I also think that the fastest run should always be "any%" without any additions to the name. Any% means beating the game as fast as possible. It doesn't have to be explained. Runs that do have to be explained are those that forego beating the game the fastest way possible. In summary: This here should be called "no game ending glitch" or "beats bowser" and the new one should just be called "any%" PS: Great run, yes yote. ^^
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Yep great decision! Maybe there could be a game time category, just to show whats possible. But it's really great that e are going to get a watchable real time run first. :)
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So back to my original point: That's really fucking wide. XD For a youtube video it doesn't make any difference if you have black bars or not I guess. Plus it gives you space for comments. So yay. I wish I could be more constructive regarding the run... Maybe somebody else will come by. You might also want to show it off at SDA. There are bound too be some people who know this game like the back of their hands.
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If it's not squashed it's not 16:9 (black bars do not count towards resolution). Make up your mind damn it! XD So what you are saying is even without the widescreen hack RE4 has black bars? Which basically means usually it is a 16:9 image in a 4:3 frame. But with the widescreen hack that gets even wider...
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Oh. So the image is squashed? That explains it. Why didn't you just cut the black bars from the video? Still the WIP looks great to me. But I know nothing about that game. ^^"
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Nice. Man that widescreen is wide. I thought that widescreen hack would get you 16:9. What aspect ratio is that?
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Find a place to hookshot there. If you can do that we can surely clip the wall.
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Man "glitched" is such a stupid category name. Everythign uses glitches. Can that please be changed to "uses debug menu" or something? Anywho, great run! Yes vote.
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AndreLucLevesque wrote:
And he post this video this morning and it's also very nice and like someone in the video comment said he "could skip a good portion of the temple" with this :P .
Yeah that someone has no clue. :D The TAS will follow the console route in this tempel. But now you know that swordless is currently in forest tempel and the TAS is going well. :) Btw. you might want to remove that playlist stuff from your youtube links. Simple link: http://youtu.be/MP221K2-8QU
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Just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page. It wasn't really clear. I hope we'll get an improved TAS at some point. However it probably won't come from th japanese fraction. They have really good SM64 TASers, but their Zelda TASer are somewhat behind. Sadly Grunz and Bloob don't want to TAS anything at the moment and Swordless is still working on MST, so a new TAS isn't in sight.
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AndreLucLevesque wrote:
Hey I'm pretty new here, I was lurking these forums for quite a while now. I'm an active member at SDA and like TASer and SDAer :P are going so well together now, I was hoping to give and or receive help. First, I saw a run recently on Youtube that look as fast or faster than the current one here, he use the JAP ver. The only thing in is run that I couldn't under stand is skipping the first cinematic Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhcbmrF6GWY&feature=related Since we can't always trust human eyes and I don't know if the Jap version is faster, I was asking if this was actually faster than Bloobiebla's one.
Just to be clear we are all aware that this is a TAS? You can see an emulator bug in the menu. The description of the video says that the run is copied from nico-video to youtube. So that is yet another knock-off of a TAS from here. Probably even copied input from Bloobs run. Thankfully some things aren't hexable. That's why he couldn't get the HISS to Kakariko. any% on Jap is about 6:30 faster than on U. Combine that with the shoddy timing and this is quite a bit slower than bloobs TAS. The folks in #zelda told me this is the currently fastest realtime run: http://twitch.tv/zfg1/b/298452015
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Toad King wrote:
I think the framestep fix might help a little with inputs from previous frames effecting the current frame. The issue with input in Dolphin is that it isn't polled at any specific time (like on frame draw), it's put on a timer that the emulated CPU polls every so often. When in recording/playback mode, that timer is forced to be once every frame, but the timing of the poll may still be off. It would be easy to fix this by forcing a poll on frame draw, but doing that would make the timing different from the current method, and possibly break movies already made/being made.
Well that's really a non-issue, isn't it? Everybody knows dolphins TAS-feature is not final yet and that later revisions might break old movies. Tasers can just note the revision they used for a specific TAS in their submission and the problem is solved.
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Newer dolphins also have that fix. So it is unlikely that using that version helps anything. Btw. the progess they make on SDA is really fun. Now they are down to 7 days. Maybe 6 is possible.
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MrGrunz wrote:
Without a new route for the adult section there won't be a new any% TAS. At least not by me.
I thought you would TAS that crap if your new dot skip is in there, which it might be now. :D Well I guess somebody will TAS it eventually. Might take a while though.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Oh I think I get what you're saying now, the owl skip would be after ZR not after KV? I was thinking the owl came up after KV always and not which ever place you enter HF first from. Sorry for asking so many times, I guess we both weren't getting what each-other was saying.
You should maybe test a little with PJ64. There is always an owl sitting in front of Kakariko. You skip it with a ISS on the way in and with the sign-targeting-trick on the way out. Bloob skipped it with the sword/stick-trick, on the way out of Kakaiko, in his TAS, but since we don't have sword and stick anymore that can't be done.
So I think this means there's already TAS videos of what sword route would be, and the stick is only different from 3 ZR slides, cucco collecting, and after KV slide. So I'm going to try to estimate what those 4 slides save then.
Cucco collecting can also be further improved. Bloob said so himself. Plus we don't have a definite time how long getting sword and how long getting stick takes. I still think sword would be faster, but if you want acurate timing for both, both routes would have to be TASed, from the ground up. Ofcourse you could hex the lost woods part from one into the other but that is so minor that it probably wouldn't be worth it.
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MrGrunz wrote:
slowi's right, so stop the discussion right here. we tested this a while ago and aqua escape is clearly superior. it's still debatable if ruto's bottle might be quicker, which probably isn't the case.
Yeah I timed it. Ruto bottle is clearly slower, sadly. The cutscenes and movement on the overworld alone bring it close to cucco bottle. If you add the movement in ZD, it's clearly far behind. Really sad, that route would have been fun... I wish we had some way of getting into ZD without any item. Then ruto bottle would be faster by quite a big margin. The down - up the river is what kills it.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
I got that, but what I don't get it why can't you use broken stick in the k field level to both skip owl and aqua slide since there's no loading zone you would need to go through.
Like I said 50 times before: You don't have the stick anymore when you leave Kakariko. Besides you need sword and stick to skip the owl. You need to pull them out in short intervalls. What the TAS would do is start an aqua slide right when you get out of zora river and with that slide to Kakariko. The ISS will skip the owl. But after that the stick is kaputt, gone, not there anymore!
You wouldn't have to TAS the whole child section, just stick route up to the vines, ZR stick route (no slides), cucco collecting stick route (throwing instead of slashing). Sword route up to the vines has already been TASed, Sword route ZR has already been done, sword route cucco collecting has already been done. And they don't have to perfect either unless they turn out to be less a second apart.
Which is basically the whole child section.
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Yeah we knew that you can gainer out of a hover. There is exactly one place where it could be usefull. That is the first sunblock in STT. In all the other places zora mask will give you more height. There zora mask would crush you. But Grunz used a forewards backflip, since it is slightly faster. (gainer and forewards backflip are not the same)
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Spider-Waffle could you please stop with broken stick? I found the usefull ways to make broken stick, so if we could use it I would be the first one to be excited about it. Like I said already, we would only have one stick and that one stick would be used for the owl skip. After that it's gone, you can not bring it back and you can't take a broken stick through a loading zone. Regarding aqua escape: I did the freaking math in the post directly above yours. It is always faster, without a doubt. You might discuss if sword or stick are faster, even so I'm pretty sure sword is, but what escape we use is clearly not up for debate. Bridge clip is slower with the sword and impossible with the deku stick, since we could never get 50r in a reasonable amount of time, without the sword. Pokey or aquaslide escape are even slower than bridge clip, even on J.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Do you mean from kak village to the bridge? surely there's already a video of this one right?
Yes in bloobs TAS for example. But it isn't really acurate for the new TAS. You don't have sword and stick, so you can't walk through the owls loading zone. So that means walking around, then doing the aqua slide. The ones in zora river are 2 superswims and one aquaslide btw.
Synx wrote:
yes it can? And it avoids the neverending cutscene of getting the flute
Do you know what aqua escape is? Ofcourse we skip the shield. That's the main advantage of aqua escape. In earlier runs you had to get shield, sword and deku sticks. Now only stick or sword is required. I'll copy the PM I sent bloob, when I had the idea for this route, back in July, for further explaination:
I had an idea. If the ruto bottle route with the owl turns out to be impossible, there is another alternative to the current route. First of all I think the bridge clip and the aqua escape with clip are compareable in terms of how much time they take. So that really doesn't figure into the equation. The interesting part: From Grunz's little TAS down river we can see that that takes like 35s. Another jumpslash slide and you are at Kakariko in about 10s. So that's 45s which is compareable to the old peahat way. It is more if you do consider the HF introduction cutscene, which you probably should since that will play as adault if it hasn't played as child. Although you could just subsittute the one time you use that exit with going through GC. Probably comes out on top compared to watching that scene. Anywho the good part about this is: You would never have to buy a shield or deku stick. So no gathering rupees, no going to the shop. With the 9r you get inadvertently by getting the sword and the 13 you get from the river you also have enough to buy the adault shield when you figure in the 60r from the bridge. I think that makes more than up for the extra 10-15 seconds HF intro (that are only really lost if you really take the intro as adault, anyway). So really I think now it's between "doing aqua escape and getting ruto bottle" and "doing aqua escape and getting cucco bottle". Pretty sure bridge clip is out.
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There are 3 in ZR and one from Kak to market. You do have money problems since the river only gives you 13r but you need 20. The bridge gives you 60 max, but you need 80 for the shield.
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sword -> aqua escape -> cucco bottle -> dot skip -> ms
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Swordless and I talked about it and we both agree that getting the sword is faster. Getting the stick instead just has too many drawbacks: - money problems - less slides - not being able to slash the cuccos I also changed the list of what a new tas should do differently. If anybody thinks of something else, please tell us: - way less rupees because no shield or shop visit even - Aqua escape instead of bridgeclip - Savewarp after pond - first time catching bugs and RBA should be combined after you got Cojiro (throw the stone, do RBA twice [Bombs and Cojiro] while it's in the air) - Since you do Aqua escape going through goron city after odd mush is probably faster since the hyrule field cutscene would play otherwise - Pull out odd mush twice to speed up old hag reaction - Skip trails with a single megaflip from the stairs
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Oh, I was timing from getting control outside the house, because what happens inside the house is the same for both routes so it could only make your timing more inaccurate by including it in case there is a difference in the house. Is it possible to hit the cuccos without breaking the stick?
Doesn't really matter. You wouldn't have the stick anymore, since it breaks for the slide past the owl. Getting 10r extra for an aditional stick would destroy any time gain. Your best bet for cucco collecting would be to pick them up and throw them. They will continue running in the direction you threw them.
Synx wrote:
In danger of appearing like an uneducated retard I will ask my question anyways. Why is the owl the endtarget of the childsection? That custscene is fucking gigantic. + The Owl is like totally far away at the lake. I do seem to remeber it being timed slower last time the ruto-bottle was the goto route for any%
You reatard, agh! :D Nah I ask a lot of questions. Often they turn out to be stupid, but somtimes they spawn new ideas. So I always apreciate it when other people do the same. Basically you can not get to the market before dark otherwise. Last time it was timed you had to wait the night in either case, but times have changed. The cutscene is not great but also not that bad on the japanese version. Keep in mind ruto bottle has no chance in hell of being faster on the U version anyway, since king zora won't shut his trap. Edit: To elaborate on the time constraint: Time will run in ZR and LH. It takes about 30s to get to the chicken. At this point you have 55s left till sundown. Getting up the river will take longer than going down. 35s? At this point you have 20s left. That would never be enough to go back down river. That may not even be enough to get to the owl. That's why I would very much like for somebody to test this route. We might be able to rule it out. Problem is at least the parts were time runs would have to be TASed at very high precision, to be sure. But nobody seems to have any drive to do so... Edit2: After you asked I actually thought about just taking the night. So I crunched some numbers and... yeah not going to happen, sadly. 1:25 is just way too much. The only chance we have is if we can get to the owl in time. Otherwise this route is dead. which ofcourse would at least bring us closer to one difinitve route. Edit3: Well crap. My guesstimations show that ruto bottle is always slower. So screw that route. Now we only have cucco bottle with and without stick as competitors.