Posts for Slowking


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petrie911 wrote:
I'm sorry, but what part of "the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version." does not mean the English ROM is obviously better? Certainly the presence of English text is obvious, and the rules explicitly say it is better.
Yeah a switch to the japanese version. But if the last run was already the japanese version this isn't the case and the consistency rule kicks in. Since it would screw up timing and crap and you would switch to a worse version. And no only enlish alone doesn't make a rom supirior, it's just that the english rom is prefered if you do a new gae. But if the game is already in japanese it stays this way. And the rules state that very learly. It's just that you don't like it. Like I said before. I would really like an example where a game was switched from japanese to english without the english version having a hughe glitch the japnase one doesn't. Can you bring me one?
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alec timed/estimated it. But it doesn't really matter. Even one minute would make the J rom superior. And you can't go from a superior rom back to a worse ro just because you don't like the language. So they the rules. ;)
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petrie911 wrote:
Except, as noted, English language is always considered superior to Japanese language. What, do you think when they made that rule they weren't aware that Japanese text is faster? That's the only argument you can sustain that the Japanese version is superior, and that rule is pretty much there to specifically counter that argument. And, uh, when has the consistency rule ever been regarded higher than the English rule?
You don't have to be a lawyer to identify it in the wording. The english rule tells you to use english unless there is a reason ot to. The reason not to is given in the consistency rule since it states that you have to use the same rom unless the rom you want to use is obviously better. And you know that Im right, you are a native english speaker, so you should have no trouble understanding it. You just don't like what the rules say.
sgrunt wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese[...]
Please elaborate - it's not at all obvious to me other than the difference in text speed, which is a negligible (at best) improvement timewise.
5 minutes is a huge improvement for a TAS and certainly not negligible. And yes it makes the japanese rom clearly superior. The rules state that a faster start screen isn't enough to make a rom superior to another, but 5 minutes of text certainly are.
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Ah come on petrie. We both know that the consistency-rule is regarded higher than the english-rule. Because the english rule states only that english is prefered, but the consistency rule says that a new run must use the rom of the previous run, unless the new rom is obviously better. But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese, so case closed. The japanese rom becomes the new default.
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petrie911 wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But just some food for thought: If we except this run the default language for all future OoT runs will become japanese, since the rules say we can't change languages unless for a good reason and we couldn't really time the difference. So swordless and co. will most likely TAS this game in japanese. If you don't have a problem with that accept this game. But don't come whining when the new OoT TAS is in japanese in half a year.
The Rules wrote:
◦In addition, English text is preferred. Thus the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version.
The default language is always English. This run being accepted does not change that.
Da Rules wrote:
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Maybe you should read all of the rules next time, petrie. ;) If we switch to J now we stay there, since U is obviously inferior. And this rule obviously overwrites the english is the prefered language rule.
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? Japanese doesn't bring the text boxes up faster, but since in japanese one sing is one word the text is way shorter and this way you have fewer boxes and characters that need to be drawn.
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Well I can't watch this. Nicovideo craps out on me and I can get the TAS to synch in mupen but with frame buffer enabled it only runs at 7FPS and that is really unwatchable. So I'll hold my final vote for an encode. But just some food for thought: If we except this run the default language for all future OoT runs will become japanese, since the rules say we can't change languages unless for a good reason and we couldn't really time the difference. So swordless and co. will most likely TAS this game in japanese. If you don't have a problem with that accept this game. But don't come whining when the new OoT TAS is in japanese in half a year.
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Derakon wrote:
Per the Rules, we prefer the use of the English version unless other versions have glitches or game features that aren't present in the English version. Faster text is not a good reason to switch versions.
Screw the rules I have money! But in all seriousness. I think the switch to another version is warrented in this case. The game that is left is 90% cutscene, which makes it really boring. So to keep the entertainment value alive we have to ue the japanee version. Simple. And I think nobody will argue, that the upcoming TAS is only faster because of version differences. ;) The rules say:
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Both is true for OoT any%. The jap rom is obviously better and we can show how it should be compared.
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Well don't be so lazy, TAS up to that point and upload a new WIP. Problem solved. ;P
Sonikkustar wrote:
As long as it doesnt involve a major saving of time, Im fine with it!
Well for a TAS it's pretty major. It's in the realm of seconds. XD
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Btw. we had a slight route change again. So expect to be surprised. ;)
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My words were "where time doesn't count". With this I meant ofcourse ingame time. That should be obvious.
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petrie911 wrote:
Captain Forehead wrote:
Don't I remember something about skipping the clock tower scene by staying in Termina Field until midnight?
That doesn't work on the first cycle. In fact, if you're in termina field when the clock strikes 12, you're treated to an alternate version of the opening cutscene. This is, in fact, the only time you can see said scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sI5KefiovI
And it should be noted that the scene in termina field is quite a bit longer than the one in Clocktown.
Tub wrote:
doesn't clock-time stop advancing during area transitions and dialogues and stuff?
Yeah but I'll give you some math: - getting the 5r in the beginning of the game probably costs us 1 second. so -1 - We need to talk to the banker at least 4 times anyway. (3 times for paying 200+r for adault wallet and one time to extract 200r) So that's a tie. - We need to get from ECT to NCT aynway and we have two choices. Either one transition scene and one long ass cutscene or two transition scenes. Naturally we choose the two transition scenes. So we are in termina field anyway and actually save time compared to Mukkis run, while collecting rupees. We save about 9 seconds by going through termina field and we save about 20 seconds for not getting the Inn chest (4 transition scenes and one chest opening scene). So we are at +28 - Now we do a extra trip through termina field, true. This costs us about 15 seconds in additional transition scenes (4). So we are at +13 - But now comes the real kicker. Mukki has to collect all that money for the adault wallet later on, when time counts. And that's about two times 55 seconds. So our plus goes up to 123 seconds or 2 minutes and 3 seconds. So our way of getting rupees is over 2 minutes faster. ;) And we do something interesting with the first cycle. ;)
DaTeL237 wrote:
petrie911 wrote:
In fact, if you're in termina field when the clock strikes 12, you're treated to an alternate version of the opening cutscene.
Well perhaps with TAS precision it would be possible to cancel that cutscene by triggering the zone-transition on the correct frame? :)
Nope. It has all been tried. You can actually skip over twleve o'clock by moving in transition scenes or rapidly pausing, but the cutscene just starts right after you stop doing that, even if you advance time by like an hour, which would take you forever.
BadPotato wrote:
althought I'm quite sad that the entertainement isn't maxed while waiting for the bombshop keeper. I understand that this zone desync a lot, but this still isn't a good raeson for me.
I'm actually quite glad that he didn't do some crap there. Now I'm all for tricks to gap long waits, but here it's so short, that I like the little downtime to catch my breath.
Tub wrote:
or (unsuccessfully) runing through the unactivated warp before showing off.
He actually did that. It still confused the hell out of people. XD
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Derakon wrote:
Kuwaga: even then, there was impressively little downtime in the first cycle. I seem to recall a lot more hopping around the clock tower platform in the last MM TAS I saw...
Kneel before my route planing! XD Actually petrie, swordless and I probably planned the first cycle in equal parts. Mukki only got 99r from the chest in the Inn. Why? We really don't know. It seems obvious to get more rupees in the first cycle, where time doesn't count. We actually figured out that the Inn chest was way too slow, since it added a lot of transition scenes, where time doesn't run. So we opted for two trips through termina field. This also has the positiv effect that we skip the north clock town introduction cutscene (during cutscenes time doesn't run either) since we enter it from termina field. It was my idea to get 2r before clocktown to complete the 200r for the adault wallet. It only costs one second to get, but saves a buttload later since we save a lot of transition scenes. Getting the adault wallet first cycle also enables us to just grab our 200r at the beginning of the second cycle from the banker, and never speak to him again. It's also the only time in the TAS that we actually collect money. We will get a little more money later on, as a sideeffect of another trick, but this is the only time we actively collect it. And since in the first cycle time doesn't count, from beginning of the evening of the last day till midnight, we save a lot of time. I hope everything was understandable. :)
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MrGrunz wrote:
never really liked majora's mask?^^ who invented this? :P it is true, that I had never beaten MM normally before I started glitch hunting, but I always watched my brother playing it as a child and I've been a huge zelda fan in general. nearly all games I play have something to do with zelda MM became my favorite zelda, btw ;)
I think he meant himself, Grunz. ;)
Nahoc wrote:
you beat Majora so quick..
Did I miss something? XD PS: can somebody tell the assholes in #zelda to unban me? :p
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EEssentia wrote:
Size is irrelevant!
Yeah that's what they tell you, but when it comes down to it they really want it to be big. ;)
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feedback: very nice ;)
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Yeah and even anti-ds mupen is still very desynchy with MM. So there has to either be a version that doesn't desynch at all or we'll still have to wait a few years until computers are so fast that you can play back the m64 in a few minutes instead of a lot of minutes.
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But usually in 100% runs only what's in your menu counts. I could probably find a dozen 100% runs here and on SDA where items are cloned. Why is OoT so different? If you want to expand 100% for things outside of the menu you would have to include planting all magic beans and opening all keyed doors. That's imo just stupid.
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Well I think a OoT 100% would be much more possible if skulltulla cloning was allowed, which I don't know why it isn't anyway.
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Why PAL? Well I guess it runs in PAL60, so there is no problem with it running slower than NTSC, but are there any other advantages?
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Nothing of the run is done yet. But yes, it will be sub 1h.
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Does anybody of you remember who made the anti-ds mupen? I know it was in this thread soewhere, but it's sut way too long to find by now. We would like to ask a few thigns about the reset feature.
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Still it might be nice to have a clearer definition on the "heavy". Is it heavy when there is luck manipulation that a real time run could never do and that saves a minute or is it just a run with a lot of luck manipulation in it?
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Well it still desynchs pretty often.
AngerFist wrote:
That was stunning Grunz. I am sure your run will easily be nominated as N64 tas of 2010 :P
Hmm the OoT Any% RBA TAS will probably come out this year, too. That will be tough competition. But I'm for the MM TAS, since it's more than catching bugs. ;D
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Nope you get more than enough rupees from the first diving game to pay for the second one. ^^