There are definitely red rupees in the field-bushes. A few people here including petrie have confirmed it.
The only question that remains is if they are there in the first cycle...
But in general it's good to hear that it's possible. ^^
Even without red rupees you could get 15 blue rupees, 8x 3 green rupees and have one bush that doesn't drop anything and still get the 99r.
And yes according to our current beta- route we will only need 200r at the end of the first cycle. Mainly to get the adault wallet, otherwise we could probably do with much less...
I have a suggestion for the first cycle. It will cost a tremendous amount of luck manipulation but speed things up A LOT.
- get 2r before CT and deposit it as soon as you have danced with the scarecrow (2r)
- get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r)
- get to ECT, get fairy, do a half run through termina field to NCT, get 99r, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r)
Now like I said this will need an obscene amount of luck manipulation, but should be doable. Between ECT and NCT are 24 bushes. If we can manipulate 1-2 red rupees and some blue rupees out of them we should be able to get 99r.
We could even make it without the red rupees, but that would take quite a lot of blue rupees...
This would save a shitload of time, as we would probably be at the clock tower at 12 and skip the NCT introduction scene...
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
More likely everyone will be afraid of you because they think that you are the heir of Lord Voldemort. o.O
I for one like the diversity. Superslide and Superflip is somewhat boring, Superslide and Megaflip are an unstopable super team. XD
I looked at MrGrunzes Snowhead access again and wow it's really much much faster than the old way. (the FFWW puts you in a better position, but still the HISS does wonders...)
I like especially how you just slide against the wind at one point. it rhows you a little bit back put not nearly enough. :D
If it's not replicateable on console or if it requires in-game modification of the hardware on console, I guess those tricks aren't allowed. (and for a good reason imo)
Afaik crooked cartridge can actually be emulated. It's sad that we are not allowed to use it. Imo it's just another cycle and for example 100% could be cutdown by 1 cycle...
Kuwaga wrote:
I guess the reason is that they were planning to use B as a fourth C-Button or something similar at some point. More than just a sword button in any case.
They didn't only plan to use the B-button for something other than the sword, they actually did and that's probably why they fixed the bug.
There is the Deku bubble, the Zora swords and boomerang and the Goron Punch.
eternaljwh wrote:
It looks like they didn't actually change how it worked...just, y'know, umptillion more things are tied to the clock.
Yep I assume that the Suns Song never actually was (planned to be) in MM. It's just that MM is so heavily based on OoT that you can find old artifacts like this song in it...
MrGrunz wrote:
thanks swordless
this helps a lot ;)
here's the new lullaby skip with hyper endless superslide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDDoLe866W4
now we're able to get up to the temple with one bomb :D
Really nice and fast. ^^
But I have two negative things:
1. ISS was discovered by SL. So if he says it's called ISS and not ESS we should respect that. You discovered a faster form which is now called HISS, since you called it hyper. ;)
The one who finds it, names it
2. Could you give less information in your youtube explanation as to how the glitch you are showing will be used in the finished run and why? Giving away that we will skip the Goron mask ruins a good deal of surprise...
@ A TAS of Snowhead. Maybe you could make it a private video and only show us until SLs run is published...
If we assume that STT --> SHT is faster since MrGrunz said he would be able to speed things up with 10 more Chus in PF, can we finally make a solid route?
I have a new strat for the Takkuri. It should be the fastest way to kill it. please look at the image to understand it: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/Takkuristrat.jpg
- get out of the west gate of CT
- do a fast ISS to the blue point (well the general erea) and charge bomb on the way
- megaflip over the ledge
- ISS the rest of the way to the bushes in the red circle (shouldn't be to far, a superflip from that hight will bring you far)
- kill the red slime and get your bomb drops
- sidehop 2-3 times to the yellow point
- kill the Takkuri from here
- the slime should have respawned while you were shooting and attack you when you are finished, at the yellow point - fast ISS of it
- collect the orange rupee during the slide and slide into the milk road.
@MrGrunz
Did you find any speedtricks for the PF?
I like the video better this way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPy0N3-NKr0&fmt=22&flip=1 :D
Well to do it with chus doesn't do us much good since you have to wait for them to go off and for that you can just use a bomb. Unless you can do a megaflip from them in the air without haveing to wait that they go off. That could save time in the PF...
For what else? There is only one spot where we can do a recoild flip afaik.
Look I'm not here to kill everybodys buzz or something. I just want to make sure that we have the best possible route...
If you can convince me that you save more than 10 seconds (15 would be good, 20 perfect.) through the extra chus, I'm faster on board than you can look.
The 50 Rupees after STT take MUCH less than 10 seconds.
As you can see in my video, shooting the guay after the temple takes less than 3 seconds. Equipping the light arrows also takes about 3 seconds. The light arrows are unequipped when reequipping the explosives for SHT, so no time is lost there. That plus the slower Twinmold battle comes to a total of no more than 10 seconds.
No we can't combine it since we have a 3-item limit.
Going to snowhead after STT would be fastest like this:
at twinmold battle we equip: Fire Arrows, Ocarina, Deku mask
warp to Ct buy stuff, yadda yadda, warp to Woodfall, get over to FF,
at Fairy fountain equip: Chus, Bombs
with your way we have one item slot to little and we have to switch out the normal Arrows against light arrows, which ads a whole new start-screen, which results in it being 10 seconds (ok maybe 8).
If we do Snowhead before STT we definatly save a full quip-cycle.
Which makes both ways about even, imo.
Also, we skip 7 bomb timers and a superflip by using up all the bombchus, a total of about 20+ seconds. Even without factoring in the extra required rupees, STT first still looks to be faster. And again, we have to get those 10 rupees between buying explosives for SHT and buying explosives for STT. 10 rupees will be more feasible than 50 in the temple, but I don't believe there is a place where they can be collected quickly.
With 10 Chus more we can substitute 5 Mega hovers with normal hovers (normal hovers eat up Chus like they are nothing).
3 normal hovers span the distance of 1 mega hover. A mega hover takes 5 seconds, a normal hover 1 second.
So on every substituted mega hover we save 2 seconds. Since we can substitute only 5 Mega hovers that makes 10 seconds saved total.
I did my math here. ;)
We could also push PF+GBT after SHT and throw a Zora game back in there. This way we should be able to do the speed tricks and have enough money to do snowhead first.
I think this way should come out ahead of the others. What do you guys think?
We SoS out of PF at least once anyway. Where we SoS does not matter...
Edit:
Ah no doesn't work. We would have to little Chus for SHT... sorry
But I'm still nto convinced, that those speed tricks will save more than 10 seconds. I would really like to see your calculation on that.
Yeah but since we have 10 chus left we only have to get 10r extra to buy 10 more chus. And 10r shouldn't be to hard to come by.
We discussed all of this on the last page for a few posts. Did you overlook it?
SHT --> STT would mean:
+ 4 seconds less at twinmold battle
+ ~10 seconds less for not getting the 50r
STT --> SHT
+ 10 seconds from shorter hover times through extra chus
+ 1-2 seconds from not getting the 10r
So it's both very close together.
Sweetnes! ^^
Since it has SS- speed this will come out faster even if we only have one turn during the slide. ^^
@Azorae
Like MrGrunz said we have established that woodfall in one go is faster. The only uncertainty we have at the moment is if we should do SHT --> STT or STT --> SHT.
Both have their pros and their comes and they come out about even...
Edit:
Let me study your new post real quick...
I'm copying the comments I made on youtube in here:
Could be a trick of the eyes, since everything there is really narrow. But it really looks damn fast. If you can replicate this in termina field it would be awesome.
Maybe it is so fast because you got into ESS right away and thus took the full recoil speed into it with you...
Edit (also posted on youtube):
if it is as fast as the normal SS (or nearly) there could be a lot of situations where it is a good idea to just don't do the normal SS and go into this fast ISS immediately, since you have to go around a lot of corners.
Situations I can think about of the top of my head:
GB entrance
Ikana (you have to slide around a corner there)
Swamp - the Zora slide
Woods of Mistery
Like I said the speed tricks will only save 10 seconds (unless ofcourse you can tell me where the extra chus save more time) and we have to have the money to buy those extra chus which will cost about 10 seconds. Together with the 4 seconds twinmold and 1 second buying the chus it will be longer than just keeping the chus.
we need those 50 rupees because we buy 20 chus. if we would have left 10 chus, we would only need 10 chus and getting 10 rupees from somewhere shouldn't be too hard
on the other hand could we use those 10 chus for a few speed tricks and this should be cooler and faster than using them just to do SHT before STT
I know I said something different in my post above but I thought it over and think we should investigate this further.
If my math-skills have come back to me, we can substitute 5 mega hovers with normal hovers if we have additional 10 chus. But that only saves us 10 seconds.
On the other hand we loose 4 seconds on twinmold and switching in, charging an shooting that light arrow will take quite some time. I estimate all in all it will cost us 15 seconds.
So if we have a convinient 10r drop on our way it will probably be faster to just keep the 10 Chus and do SHT before STT.
But it still is a tough call...
Can't wait to see this stuff TASed. Also 100th post for slowking XD
Yeah and 99% of those in this thread. XD I even got an avatar for the occasion.
Btw. I have a suggestion for the first cycle. It will cost a tremendous amount of luck manipulation but speed things up A LOT.
- get 2r before CT and deposit it as soon as you have danced with the scarecrow (2r)
- get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r)
- get to ECT, get fairy, do a half run through termina field to NCT, get 99r, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r)
Now like I said this will need an obscene amount of luck manipulation, but should be doable. Between ECT and NCT are 24 bushes. If we can manipulate 1-2 red rupees and some blue rupees out of them we should be able to get 99r.
We could even make it without the red rupees, but that would take quite a lot of blue rupees...
This would save a shitload of time, as we would probably be at the clock tower at 12 and skip the NCT introduction scene...
Buy 20 Bombchus, Leave to GB, Slide to Bush, Get 20 Bombs (20B) (20C)
I thought we would buy 10 bombs and get 10 bombs from the bushes or did you spend the money earlier? I just think that manipulating 4 bomb drops out of those bushes without wasting time will be really difficult...
julianface wrote:
all of your dedication amazes me. I'll be the first to watch this it sounds amazing.
thx ^^
(why is their no 2nd person plural word in english?)
Yeah I allways struggle with this, too. It's really difficult to express yourself clearly this way. In german it would be "euer" as opposed to "dein" for 2nd person singular...
I wondered that, too, at first, but the answer is yes.
if we would go to PF after the owl, the other way would be faster
What is PF? ^^"
on the other hand could we use those 10 chus for a few speed tricks and this should be cooler and faster than using them just to do SHT before STT
I really think this is the best way to go.
This way we loose 4s at twinmold and the time we need to shoot the bird. But we gain hover time and not having to collect those 10r (I'll just trust your math, since I'm obviously not able to do any myself today XD )
PS: I did an edit to my post above shortly after you posted...
Edit:
Oh PF is pirate fortress, isn't it? Ok if you timed it and it's faster this way, that's good to know. I never would have thought about it...
I didn't replace any bombchus with bombs. just 2 bomb staircases and the bomb hover in Deku Palace, so the time lost is maybe one seond!
Well that's even better. If we use up the Chus we'll actually save time. ^^ Sorry that I didn't see it, I just had a very quick look over the route before posting. I should read more carefully.
couldn't we do SHT before STT now?
I think the problem is that we will have 50r to little to buy explosives if we do SHT before STT, since we had planed to shoot stuff after STT...
I'll go over 1-2 things in the route:
MrGrunz wrote:
Slide to South Bay, Flying Zora to Fountain (18B)
I don't think sliding does anything at this point. We come out of the water really near the entrance...
Edit: Oh sorry obviously I'm a little off today. You want to hit the owl before getting the Zora mask. Are you sure this is faster? Link swims REALLY slow.
MrGrunz wrote:
Get Sonata using old strat with Bomb Hover,
I think a good thing here would be to combine the old and the new strat. Meaning using a bomb out of ISS for the first hover, then use the zora mask to grab the ledge and then hover up to the platform. Once we are on the paltform we have to switch out items anyway and we could than drink the red potion. If we really get down to beeping, in the dirty water, it will only last for about 20 seconds, since we do the palace REALLY fast. That's totally exceptable. ^^
Hmm well we don't have anything left that doesn't eat up explosives...
We could just use those Chus up. That will make a few hovers faster. Maybe it compensates us for the time we lost replacing Chus with bombs earlier to make "woodfall in one go" possible...
I mean if I remember correctly we save 2 seconds on every not-megahover (3 normal hovers instead of a megahover) and there are a few mega-hovers in the pirates fortress and GBT...
I've figured out, that the rock after the GB fences can drop bombs. it's ultra rare. I got 5 red rupees, but only one bomb drop!
this allows us to use more superslide and little speed tricks and woodfall in one go is definately possible now =)
The skulltullas in Woodfall also drop bombs and they are directly on our way (they drop pretty much anything, arrows, bombs, blue rupees, green rupees).
So if it's just a question of having enough bombs in woodfall we can just kill one of those...
MrGrunz wrote:
SoDT when you are 9 and a half in-game hours away from the Ranch houses (Somewhere between the start of the cycle and equipping the Zora Mask)
If we do woodfall in one go we have to play it later, since the bosskey skip and Odolwa battle take game-time. But we can decide when we are going to play the song once everything else is plotted out.
Hmm I'm still a little confused about it. I think we would need 2 complete routes to settle this. But I'm pretty sure in the end it takes 2 SoS more to do woodfall in 2 parts.
How long does a death warp take btw? We would skip that one...
In the end, if it really only saves one SoS it brings both ways pretty close together. So if we don't want to time it out (and since we have to save Chus for the alternative that would take quite some time) we have to just pick one...
I don't even think that we need to substitute this much chus with bombs. For example in the Dekupalace we will just use a bomb, that only costs us a few frames and through the megaflip in the FFWW we also save one chu.
Well let's wait until MrGrunz is through with the bomb route. Right now it's a little speculative...
Btw. we gain two songs of soaring. We have to warp to and out of woodfall2.
