Posts for Slowking


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I don't think you can damage the aliens without the bow and it won't be late enough for the ranch anyway, even if you fast foreward time as soon as the cycle starts. And you need the ranch bottle to do the fortress. Otherwise you'll have to do it 4 times. o.O
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MrGrunz wrote:
GBT is a good first temple, because all we need are a few bombs and bombchus to beat it
Yeah but since it only takes a few chus it's also a good temple to stick in a spot where we have explosives left over anyway. I'm not saying that we are going to need it. I'm just saying we can now if we do need it.
I doubt, that woodfall in one trip saves that much time. all it skips are 2 SoS, what are 45 seconds or something + flying over to the temple. so let's compare it: woodfall in 2 parts: 55 seconds cutscence: 38 seconds
It also skips the entrance hall and hovering over that gap again (or taking the ladder). So I'm pretty sure it saves more time than you listed here. ;) Keep in mind you also have to switch in the deku maks again, equip it, yadda yadda. That adds up. Mukki takes about 35 seconds to get to the room where we would do the bosskey skip. Add to that 10 seconds for hovering over the gap or activating and climbing the ladder and the two SoS (38 seconds) you are at 1:23. Now if we say that Mukki wasn't the fastest and add the way back from the Lizzard-room we are still more than 30 seconds faster.
17 seconds saved. another SoS to get bombchus is definately not worth, because that would make it slower. if we use bomb hovers to have more bombchus for the skip, this would reduce the saved time a lot. I also highly doubt, that we have enough explosives.
If we only need to substitute 2 chus with bombs that's a maximum of 8 seconds lost. Still comes out far ahead.
I'm totally against this way of beating woodfall temple, because it rips the "WTF" of leaving woodfall temple and watching the fairy cutscence isn't really interesting.
That wtf is gone anyway, since everybody knows Mukkis run. It will be more wtf if we do it in one go. ;) And it should save more than 30 seconds. That's quite a lot.
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The cutscene is obscenely long anyway. Those 40 seconds that Taya talks won't make a difference for the viewer. I'm waiting for your new bomb route. That will show if we have enough Chus left... I think we could even use bombs two times instead of Chus at the FFWW and still have a solid time gain if we can do the bosskey skip in doing so... Btw. since we are probably not going to do the Zora game at all anymore we can move GBT freely around, just as we need it. Keep that in mind. ^^ Edit: Btw. we can't skip the first cutscene anyway since we learn the giants song in there. So even if you figure out a way to skip cutscenes, it won't help with woodfall.
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You can't reset in MM. It only saves when you timetravel, so you would have to do the whole cycle again... Btw. I timed out Tayas speach after woodfall and it's about 38 seconds long. That's faster than two songs of soaring. So doing woodfall in one go is definatly faster if we have enough Chus to do the bosskey skip.
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Edit: Sorry accidentally quoted myself instead of editing...
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Afaik we don't beat woodfall in one go since we don't have the explosives / hookshot to do it fast. Otherwise it would probably still be faster to watch the longer cutscene and do woodfall in one go instead of splitting it... Edit:
Get SoS, Get 4 Deku Sticks, Enter Temple (14B) (1 or 4C)
Are those 4C before or after we skip the gap in the fire carousel room? If they are after we are pretty close to be able to do woodfall in one go. I highly doubt that the cutscene will be longer than a deathwarp 2SoS extra and going through half the temple twice... At the moment we are wasting Chus, for example at the Deku temple. If we would save those, I'm pretty sure we could make it. ^^
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I think the bird will take about 12-14 seconds since he is invincible for about 1 second after a hit. Imo it's not practical to switch Deku sticks in for it. We'll switch the bow in anyway, so we won't loose any time on that... The biggest problem I see is that we will have to break the SS for it. Which could take to mch time. Though two zora games take 20-25 seconds, since you have to walk thre and walk away... Maybe we could shoot him out of an ISS. This way we might be able to start shooting him shortly after we start a new slide after the cliff and we could slide into the milk road... (I hope shooting out of ISS even works and I'm not talking total crap here XD )
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I tried it with an empty wallet, still no luck. Well I'll try it again later... But that's good news. At that point we'll have 0r in our Wallet. ^^ I'm still somewhat skeptical about the fact that the twinmold battle only takes 4 seconds less. I would feel better if someone could try it out (my skill-level is a little low to try it myself) Otherwise the route looks really good, a little faster than the old one and a good deal more fun. ^^ The thing is we'll be much more free in playing the song of double time. We have the following options: - upon entering GB - before pulling mikau out of the water - after pulling mikau out of the water - before hitting the owl - after getting out of the water before going to SGB The queston goes to SL. How much risk are you willing to take? Edit: On the other hand: How lang doas it take to kill that bird flying in front of the ranch entrance at a TAS level? If it's faster than 2 Zora games and one bush it might be a good alternative... And in a TAS-strategy we might want to consider that he drops rupees when you hit them and if you don't pick them up he trys to pick them up himself. At this point you might be able to get a few spin-atacks in... We can alo empty our bow at this point since we'll have plenty of time to refill arrows during the alien hunt. Those bushes in the ranch only drop arrows and magic... Edit: Well it takes 12 arrows to kill him, so I estimate it takes about 10 seconds and he is directly on our way. That makes him WAY faster than 2x Zora game + 20r from bush. Looks like we are skipping the Zora game completely in this run. o.O Though he is invincible for a little time after you hit him. at 12 hits that ads up. Could somebody try it out? ^^
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Azorae wrote:
SoDT at Dawn for Night of Day 2** **If you can get the hookshot, all 7 eggs, the NWBN, and play the Zora Pots game twice before Night of Day 2, skip playing this
Well we are done with the ranch at 5:15 which gives us 12 hours and 15 minutes to do all this. That's more than enough. ^^
*I found out that the bushes on the cliff can (rarely) produce red rupees. If one is manipulated fast enough, that plus the 10 extra rupees from the Lost Woods can buy 10 bombs and skip getting the 2 slow bomb drops in STT. If not, there are probably other red rupees that take less than 4 seconds, for instance, the chest inside one of the egg tanks in Pirate's Fortress.
Really? I can't remember ever getting one of those. But that's really cool. So let's sum up what the pros and cons of this route are: + 2 Zora games less and 1x less walking there + woodfall skip + one less bank transfare - Bomb drops - rupee drops (woods and field) - Twinmold battle without fire arrows - Shooting a bird or blue skull for 50r (depending on if it is day or night) Did I forget something? Edit: Well I tried to get a red rupee from those bushes for quite some time with no luck. Are you sure that they are dropped at night? Well even if they aren't, it's probably still faster to just get 4 blue rupees from here than 20 from a chest or those out of the way bomb drops in STT.
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MrGrunz wrote:
we waste the magic while swimming as zora link over to the small key chest ;)
Well if e need the 50r at the end, we need the 50r at the end. Nothing we can do about it. Or can we get the 50r somewhere before? Maybe right after we inverted the tower?
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And where do we waste all this magic? I mean we don't have the goron mask anymore. Sound to me like it will cost time, rather than save it. Btw. I found a proble. We need a bomb once we are in the moon to SS. Otherwise it will take us ages to get to majoras mask.
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Well do we need magic any time before in STT except for turning it? If not it should suffice to fire one more light arrow after the twinmold battle even if we use fire arrows...
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Ok true you got me there. :D Well let's see what MrGrunz comes up with. But so far your route really looks slightly faster (probably about 30 seconds since those bomb drops really add up). But somebody had to play devils advocate here, it's the only way to find holes, imo. :D Edit: Two other things... If we could get 10r from somewhere along the way we could skip the first zora bottle game entirely. That would save the walking over there, which isn't the fastest as a zora... And the skulltullas in woodfall drop bombs. They are on the way and it might be usefull. Edit: They also drop 5r. So if we kill them both we could skip the first Zora Game... Edit: Uh even better. The bushes at the entrance of the Woods of Mistery drop 5r. You can probably collect 10r while you are waiting for the bomb to explode...
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Azorae wrote:
The interrupted superslide is stopped right next to a cliff, so you'd have to stop it anyways.
But you could probably continue an ISS after flipping over the cliff. Well I think the main problem is still twinmold. If he gets the chance to dive in the sand one more time than with fire arrows, the battle will take a long time... Maybe somebody can TAS the battle with and without fire arrows? *unauffällig zu MrGrunz schiel*
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MrGrunz wrote:
shooting a bat is not possible, because we have no magic after twimmold
And getting magic to shoot something takes quite some time... And I don't see any other fast way to get money at this point... So we'll have to do the 4 Zora games anyway. Does that even give us enough money, since we are constantly carrying all of our money around? Ofcourse I guess we could re-add the old bank-transfare and cut down on one Zora game. That would save 7 seconds here...
we actually wanted to do SHT before STT, so we have fire arrows for twimmold
That's another good point. The twinmold battle will take quite some time longer with only light and normal arrows...
edit: those 10 bombs on the way to the ranch are perfectly on our way :)
But we still have to break the SS to get them and set up a new one, which takes time...
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Azorae wrote:
Using a different Temple order (GBT-WF-STT-SH) and bomb strategy, I got this route, which requires 2 less Zora Pot games, 1 less banker conversation, and buying 30 less bombs from the shop. This is due to collecting 6 easy-to-reach bomb drops and shooting a bat with a light arrow after finishing Stone Tower Temple.
I'm pretty sure shooting a bird takes just as long as doing a second zora game. Those things fly a long way after you shoot them and you have to switch the light-arrows in first, as it is my understanding that we won't use them against twinmold, due to low magic energy... I'll look at the rest of the route at once. Just wanted to get this out of the way first. ^^ Edit: Hmm getting all of those bomb drops really ads up and at one point you even interrupt an SS to get one. I'm relly not sure if it isn't faster just to get the money and buy those bombs. SL, Petrie, MrGrunz, what do you think?
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Ah ok. I just thought we would have deposited the rupees from the first game at some point. But yeah if we dont need them all depositing them would only cost time. Good thinking. ^^ Edit: I'm through the route now and it looks very good. ^^ But we should really fidure out if we could use broken sticks on bosses. That might save a few seconds for not getting extra sticks and definatly a lot of time at the bosses, that will go down faster.
petrie911 wrote:
Assuming the rest of it is "Warp to Ikana, do STT", it seems fine. Having 20r left over is a bit annoying, but I suppose it can't be helped.
I say we jsut don't tell anybody. Since it's in the bank nobody will notice. :D
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Nice one. ^^
Get last Zora Egg via Recoil Flip (140r; 11b; 9c) Empty Bottles again Go to Pinnacle Rock twice and get rest of Zora Eggs Learn New Wave Bossa Nova Play Zora Pots Game twice (270r; 11b; 9c)
How do you get from 140r to 270r? I get 320r. o.O
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MrGrunz wrote:
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
The first goal of a TAS is allways to be entertaining and it's not like it would cost us minutes. When we get the damage from the lizard, maybe 5 seconds?
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
But even those short thingys you get at night or when you are in a temple take time. The question is if it would warrant a song... well probably not, you are right.
edit: god damn it! we need 6 explosives after ST for Hovering into tower and SS over to kid, but we leave ST with 4 bombs and 1 bombchu I'll try to find a way to skip one bomb
You'll figure somthing out. :D I'll continue commenting on the route:
MrGrunz wrote:
Get 4 Deku Sticks along the way to Woodfall Temple from pot and manipulating Dekus
So where are we using these now anyway? And is it sure that we can't use the broken stick instead?
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MrGrunz wrote:
I still doubt, that we would arrive the ranch at the right time we definately have to play a song of double time before we go to the ranch. it has to be day, when we go over to the GB fountain to play zora pots game. so the first moment, when we can play a song of double time, is after zora pots game. then it would be 6 pm. from there we would do FFWW to Ikana, get the twinrova bottle, deku palace and woodfall temple. does this really take 8-9 game time hours, because we have to arrive at 3 am at the ranch
Yeah that was pretty much the plan. Playing the sodt directly after the pot-game. And yeah it should take about that time. Though ofcourse it could be that we arrive an hour early. We'll see when we get there... Btw. if we hover into the tower the question is if we should play the Inverted Song of Time right after the ranch to reduce those "night of" "day of" messages.
Zora Link SS-ESS combination over to Octo
You could also do the "swim in shallow water"-glitch at this point. I don't know how it holds up against SS-ISS though...
MrGrunz wrote:
Zora Sidehopping to Deku Palace and hurt yourself for Woodfall Death Warp (250r; 16b; 4c)
Couldn't we do a speed- entertainment- tradeoff here and the song of soaring instead. Having to listen to the beeping for the whole time is REALLY annoying. ^^" Or as an alternative just damage yourself enough that the beeping doesn't start and take some damage from the lizard...
MrGrunz wrote:
Beat Deku Palace with new strat (video will be uploaded tomorrow)
Better/newer than this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wll7FSmQzok
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If we have the explosives at this point that's really really nice. ^^ I like especially how it goes directly from the mini-boss background music to the Odolwa background music and how the two overlap for some time. :D
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MrGrunz wrote:
we'll need to test this, but I still doubt, that it is possible with enemys. a owl statue knocks you away after jumpslahing it and this could be one of the reasons, why this works ;)
Like I said it worked with hitting Dodongos. It was even easier by far... Just try it yourself. Hit Dodongos like crazy and it will work.
I'm still working on that woodfall hookshot clip skip, it turns out to be much more complicated than I first thought, because the area is build of water, so everything under the room is water and because if a explosion hits gecko, a little cutscence starts and this one cancels ISG, but I think, I know how to do it now
I'm sure you'll get it. ^^
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MrGrunz wrote:
thsi trick only works, if you break the deku stick without standing on the ground, so it doesn't help for bosses ;)
Now that's just not true. I broke all my sticks without any hovering or being in the air orsomethign. I just rapidly hit the C-Button while hitting the owl (or dodongos later on) and sooner or later the stick ended up like this. And if it works on Dodongos, it should also work on a boss
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Well if we are going to use deku stick against one of the bosses (I think they would work best against the last two majoras) it should certainly help...
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MrGrunz wrote:
we should buy new bombchus and bombs after bow, because we have to warp to do CT to get to ranch and in our current route idea, we do ranch and get new chus then the only time, when we warp to CT not to buy new bombchus is to go to the ranch and combinating this with going to the shop would skip one SoS
Are you doing a complete route with explosives at the moment? That would be really cool.
we would be able to 3-4 deku sticks on the from deku palace to woodfall temple. one from the pot and 2-3 from manipulating the dekus to drop deku sticks. we would be able to get another stick from the pot later in the game again.
Sure sucks that croch-stabbing doesn't work in MM. (usually when I say something like this someone finds a way to make it work XD ) Btw. we will be at the deku-stick-pot 3 times: 1. woodfall1 2. FFWW to snowhead 3. woodfall2 Edit: Something weird just happened to me. I somehow got link to swing around with a broken Dekustick and it didn't get broken again when I hit something with it. Now if this thing does as much damage as a normal deku stick we could do a bossbattle with only one stick. o.O http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/infinite_dekustick.jpg (I have a cheat on in this picture but that was just to be able to recreate it. The first time it happend to me it was without a cheat) You can swing it around like a normal sword and it doesn't use up Dekusticks. If it's not yet known )which I knwo is unlikely) I call it infinite dekustick. XD Edit: A Dodongo takes 6 normal hits with this thing to kill. Is this the normal strength of a deku stick? I can't remember the site with the strength-table... Edit2: Yep that short deku stick does exactly as much damage as the long ones. I didn't know that sticks do doable the damage of the normal sword. o.O