Posts for Svimmer


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Joined: 9/27/2011
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^^ Yeah I knew that. However, if the game would draw any more of the screen with the moving enemies, that's what I was looking for. Not to say the hack wouldn't probably be a lot of work itself.
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Now hack the game to show a greater screen area so we can have an Atlas video (isn't that what they're called?) To emphasize this run was a blast!
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The hiatus over here will continue over the entire July and at least one week into August due to ESA marathon stuff (I'm part of the organizing team).
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The tricks don't strictly have to be from a TAS (albeit certain types of tricks are common only in TASes). Okay, someone else thought it would be good for this for some reason... I'm on a 2-week break from this project so I'll decide on this later.
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Greetings fellow TASvideos community members! This here is the thread for the in-the-works TASvideos documentary. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14328 (read first post for more general info) I'm calling for a little bit of community input at this time. If you go the last page and read my last message (plus some of my other messages above) you'll see what it's about. In a nutshell we're looking for a game to be used to represent some kind of "average game" that features all your run-o-the-mill types of speedrun/TAS tricks like damage boosting, death abuse etc. See the documentary draft for a complete listing: https://docs.zoho.com/writer/ropen.do?rid=udqvhaeefa22459bb41718824008eea56cc40 (starts about 1/3 down) or just check the last post in the thread for a concise listing. Is there anyone here who could assess Donkey Kong 64 (it was specifically suggested by someone) for how well it might cover these needs? Just leave a message in the thread. Remember it's best for the examples to be kinda obvious when you see them. Thanks!
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I'm going to take a two-week break from this project now. Here's a as-of-now complete list of trick categories that we're looking for a game to fit in case someone was about to speak up for their game. The exact method of subdividing everything is a bit (a lot) arbitrary so... also the longer the list grows the less likely we'll find just one game to cover everything so we may end up using 2-3 different games after all. Still would love to hear from the people who wanted to advocate Mario Kart 64 etc. -Movement tricks -Efficient Combat -Luck Manipulation -A.I. Abuse (as separate from luck manipulation) -Taking damage (mainly damage boosts, invulnerability abuse...) -Death Abuse -Going Out of Bounds & Skipping Triggers -Abusing Faulty Game Logic (e.g. assuming being at B implies you did A so if you can skip A it's still assumed you've done it; also e.g. you're facing left so the game assumes it needs to eject you towards the right enabling entering the wall) -Pausing-related Tricks & Save/Load Tricks -Zone-hopping -Overlapping Events Note that I got the idea for that last one from what you wrote about DK64 ais. Bioshock has the radio transmission overlap thing where the latter (shorter) message cancels the first triggered one. Making other things overlap like that (kinda reminds you of save/loading which also wasn't even mentioned yet and of pausing tricks) surely could be included.
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Thanks for all that: added several things in... Just for clarity: "shooting from outside LOS" - is that just another name for "shooting through walls" or did you mean something else altogether? "zoning" (perhaps better "zone-hopping"): are the principle uses for this just XP/item farming and despawning/not allowing dangerous or otherwise unwanted foes to spawn or are there more clever applications that you know of? "mid-jump physics change" is probably best named just "physics change" because it seems to apply to horizontal motion as well, inside Super Metroid too (morph ball tricks of various sorts looks like). Another example for you: Thief 2 has an item called the slowfall potion. It basically just adjusts gravity except it doesn't usually allow you to jump any higher. If you jump right before consuming one, however, you do get that benefit. "variable confusion", I'd like to suggest renaming this "faulty game logic abuse" or some subset of those words. Those last few examples fit into this catch-all snugly. I made this a category of its own because I deem it sufficiently widespread and not really belonging anywhere else. Are you well-versed in Donkey Kong 64 yourself or should I ask someone else to fill in my "assessment sheet"? Does it really have one of each? Are they suitably recognizable and easy to understand without a ton of explanations? See my post above for the full list of categories as we currently have them.
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Another point about which category to choose: how different is it going to be from the real-time any%? Personally I might rather watch one that's more different from that instead of just a highly optimized version of it. If you take no damage that removes certain tricks like someone said, at least changing the route somewhat and forcing more independent research and experimentation from you. However, you'll see how it plays out. Never leave out the possibility of [you] doing another category later for which purpose going for extreme approaches instead of middle-ground is smartest.
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I don't think I expressed myself clearly: We are looking for just one single game (or at most game series) to be used for demonstrating some one trick out of all these categories of tricks as they are subdivided in the draft. [Edit: a more complete list found in a later post) Like I was saying, Mega Man 2 (or possibly some other MM game) has something for each category so it's currently a strong contender, though we wish it had a more suitable instance of death abuse. Do any of the other MM games have the death abuse without the zipping? At first glance the MM1 TAS seems to have a death abuse of some sort looking at its short description, but this is the sort of thing I was hoping that the community would help us out with to save us time. niamek: ah yes, I now remember seeing that pause buffering usage in a Zelda Wind Waker run. Yes, we'll add it in then especially since I just remembered the pause tricks in Mega Man 1 AND Blaster Master.
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ais: I'm sorry to hear it doesn't load for you. ZohoDocs isn't the most reliable. Here it is in another format: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VbXOZpnj6MbkZweWNRNUZpaGc/edit?usp=sharing Your list looks interesting. It has things ours currently doesn't. Great stuff! Are any of them from first person shooters like Golden Eye? I think Arki was thinking mostly about 2d-platformers. Shooting through walls, Shooting from outside LOS: which games are you thinking of? By "zoning" do you mean you skip a trigger that normally loads up the next area but if the enemies are already loaded you can clear them easily or what exactly? Pause buffering: is this a common technique or just a technique? Which games again? Mid-Jump physics change: sounds a bit strained but what did you have in mind with it? Enemy boosting, Move cancelling: These we just plain didn't have. Variable confusion: can you give an example?
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So another round of community input is called for! We (mainly arkiandruski) have compiled a list of common types of tricks to find in any average TAS or speedrun: https://docs.zoho.com/writer/ropen.do?rid=udqvhaeefa22459bb41718824008eea56cc40 (section called "Generic introduction to trick types used in runs") There's two questions I'm posing you now, dear follower of this thread: 1) Are there any more generic types of tricks that you can think of that we're completely missing? 2) We want there to be one game that features at least one trick per trick class "movement tricks", "death abuse" etc. to be used to start each class off. Currently the games that were suggested were Super Mario Kart and Mega Man 2. Could you form your objective opinions about whether either of these games, or some other game altogether, would fill such requirements? If bad comes to worse, we might resort to using several games from one game series. Relatedly, there was a discussion of whether MM2 features a death abuse. This was pointed out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJ077P12cs&t=13m20s but was also deemed not ideal because we want to keep the general order of trick types (the bold headings) as it it and the clip unfortunately does the OOB things first and death abuse after it. They can't really be separated. Furthermore it's probably not the most intuitively clear example to begin with (being inside two rooms at once as it were). So are there any other games we could also be considering? Thanks for any input!
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Like Radiant, I'd like to suggest pacifist because it probably increases the challenge with more variables and randomness to plot in, and to go even further than that, how about 0 damage taken as well? I know I managed to do that for the first several levels so I'd be surprised if you couldn't combine both of them. Armor damage doesn't get counted of course. That way your TAS would be maximally different from the existing speedrun.
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Thanks for the info Flip! I'll review this later and reply to the thread if I need something more.
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Hello SM64 People! So we're hacking away at the documentary and there's a part where we're using SM64 as an example of how TASes tend to evolve over the times. We have a set of 4 movies for the game each of which use a different technique (as I understand) for entering Dire Dire Docks. Here are their movie numbers and links to where it happens. 2062 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV7nJwt2zhc&t=22m15s 849 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZOBdU_5zlA&t=10m55s 987 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxJ1k7tBpNM&t=2m38s 2016 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkxRA7yxLY&t=2m21s The first one is just there to show the normal method. I know that movie is out of chronology. So I wanted to ask if anyone has a little time to help us with this. We need a short description (may use technical jargon as needed) of the tricks that made each improvement possible specifically with regards to how this door was tackled (can't talk about everything). You could write it in this thread, or respond here stating you're doing it and send me a PM if it's a bit out of place. Thanks! SV
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Thanks Nach for pointing me to this thread. Thanks Kirby for creating the page. It was conducted via PMs so "by e-mail" is probably fine. There were more questions and answers that I had left out to avoid a bit of repetition. What comes to bashing I personally wouldn't have a clue who did what when. All I saw was that one quotation like I explained at the beginning of the interview. And based on what he said, Morimoto's TAS was right about the only one he ever saw until more recently, so... Personally I never thought he was lying or anything. There may have been misunderstandings and we know what time does with memories. I'll give you the rest of the Qs'n'As so you can see everything he said. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VbXOZpnj6MYUJNRVFFWThBRms/edit?usp=sharing You could also link the full text, because that's what Radix actually approved of publishing and because I put a tiny bit of effort into it after all. Guys, keep expressing your opinions, whether positive of negative! It lets me know it's getting read. I might direct Radix to read them as well if that's called-for.
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Flip: The first idea sounds kinda like botting where you tell the computer what values you wanna end getting (desired outcome). Is what you're thinking of something more? The second idea: that sort of stuff gets ironed out by using macros anyway doesn't it? Still, thanks for the input. This deserves more discussion.
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I saw a few PS2 TASes on Youtube so I'm guessing the re-recording branch of Pscx2 was advanced enough to allow something to be made... But yes. In any case the situation can change again before this is out. This shows you how lost I am with this stuff. The two links you posted look interesting. Thanks.
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THC98: Yes, that wasn't explicitly mentioned anywhere. They're already a thing but maybe we'll see more of that in the future. Doesn't anyone else have any ideas?
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Hi guys! #1 So here's a point where we wanted to get some community input again: The last section in the script is about the future of TASing. I looked at some of the things that had been written in the TAS Laboratory section of the forums but I didn't feel confident about what to focus on, what's actually relevant. What's actually possible (of course this is probably a bit debatable) or currently being implemented and what could happen in some years' time? What are your views? Here's the current list of things we've got: -real-time TASbotting (happened at AGDQ) -More communal projects like Jetpack was? -More categories and challenges? (low input count, short looping input cycle) -More platforms (dreamcast is missing, PS3...) -Bizhawk (is it just a similar emulator to other emulators except it supports very many platforms?) -More emulator features? (per-frame rerecord count? what else?) -heuristic botting? (lexicographic values, bot learns from "watching" the player play) -??? #2 Does anyone happen to know either a) how to contact Ryuto other than PMs or b) if someone other than him has TASed Brain Age or understands how it works what he did with it?
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They probably didn't mean the exact same inputs, just the general strategy for winning fast.
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I'd like to point out this is highly reminiscent to the problems of composing the likes of fugues and canons.
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Just to announce a few things! arkiandruski joined the writing team making it me, him and thatguy. The project was moved over to another service similar to Google Docs due to compatibility issues we were having. Zohodocs tends to be a little slower to load but let us know if there's any other problems with viewing the files. The new links are in the first post. Cheers! Svimmer
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It's true that it's gonna be a meh compared to other keen games but it's only 5 minutes so I didn't feel "cheated" by any means: yes! GJ DJ
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arkiandruski: I copied what you wrote into the draft (near the end) and whenever the section you mentioned will get done properly we'll use your ideas. If you wanted to help more though, could you please contact me via PM or so for coordination because otherwise you'll have a hard time telling what needs to be done and how... Currently me and thatguy are working on this. I've right about explained to him my entire grand plan.
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arkiandruski: Thanks for your list. I'll update mine a little based on what you've written. Grincevent: I guess real-time playing and recording is only really necessary if you can't either a) record the gameplay from the emulator or b) run the game at full speed or it's otherwise more convenient to play outside the emulator. Is there something else I'm missing?
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