Posts for Svimmer


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Just popping in to let you know I'm currently up to page four in collecting and organizing the clips into one big Excel table. A couple of weeks after that's done I will create a post in which I try to list what we seem yet to be missing but for now no-one has suggested the "Evolution of a TAS" game and place within that game. To rehash, there should be a game that has been TASed several times (at least 3-4) over the course of time and a particular segment inside the game that has "evolved" from TAS to TAS. The ideal clips for this show an easy-to-appreciate progression with more than just a few frames gained each time. My first thought after seeing Tompa's recent Link to the Past submission would be if there has been such an evolution in how to enter the castle but maybe it was always the same until now... The "writing in a TAS" thing is certainly going to be a little segment within the video thanks to the suggestions made so far!
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It's really hard to give suggestions here... Looks like you go through the top left twice and could have picked up the gem at (7,2) on the second pass but it's all so interconnected with the cycles and things... If you established how many frames each cycling monster has in its patrol cycle, you could maybe see if you changed the route a little would that enable you to hit earlier cycles somewhere. This is what I was talking about at Missile City. Anyway that's all I've got.
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I thought even if it's a TAS you're still expected to play the game, so a no vote from me. (actually a yes vote)
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Warepire provided us with a brilliant template for making suggestions. How come I didn't think of that? Consider using this: -the first line doesn't have to be linked, it's fine if it's just the name of the game and the youtube link ----- [2427] DS Super Scribblenauts (USA) in 1:01:41.86 by Chef Stef & Kiwisauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=vrTvCqPtxao#t=964 Clip: Start at 16:04, end at 16:35 in the encode. Perhaps slow down the word entering a little in the resulting video so everyone has time to read. Level: 3-9 (full level) Why: A fairly unusual way of solving an archeology puzzle. To come up with many of the solutions in this TAS the authors had to disassemble parts of the game to find out what kind of things they could summon, when, and in which situations they would work. ----- At the same time though, this is a clip that's going to score low on the "clarity" aspect because it requires you pretty much to have played the game to fully recognize what's happening. I am currently using three metrics to help the process of selecting suitable clips: "clarity", "popularity" and "visual impact" each of which can compensate for each other. Even if a clip scores a 1 (out of 5) on one of them, it may still end up getting used with some extra annotations or somesuch. I've been neglecting to mention that there's also the question of brevity - It's easier to fit in short clips than long ones, so that if the trick requires half a minute to show completely, it has to make up for that in other ways to justify focusing on it for that long.
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That level must have been a bitch! I guess you tried to phase the block you start on then going left instead to collect those ones, then going through? It does look very efficient the way it's done here.
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Dragonfangs wrote:
low%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TZi3OtsZb8&t=15m33s Traveling across this pit in this manner was discussed years prior to the TAS as it helps the route A LOT, I don't think anyone got anywhere near in realtime though. Requires a lot of precise movement, enemy and RNG manipulation (the enemies only freeze semi-randomly).
Thank you so much Dragonfangs, this is exactly the type of annotation I need for the clips. Someone pointed out a large part of the clips is old material (as in was used in the old videos), but although it's always the better the more imagination is involved in clip suggestions, there will be a list of all the clips used in this video that can be used for selecting new ones for the next one (from the ones left over perhaps) and this video furthermore will serve a slightly different purpose from the old ones in that it will actually take a closer look at some of them and explain tasing in general. It would be too early to make a new video if it weren't for this difference.
arkiandruski wrote:
Luck Manipulation will be harder to show. I think any clip we do choose will rely on some knowledge of the game being played.
You won't need knowledge of a specific game if, say, you can see all the PC's attacks are criticals and enemies keep missing... But anyway that's why I personally like the idea of having the narrative/commentary going. Makes you able to relay to people things that would be difficult to otherwise.
arkiandruski wrote:
Here's a weird idea for a montage. Eat At Joes. An old running gag which has kind of disappeared recently
That's kinda funny I'll admit :) One of those is definitely making it into the "entertainment" part or "creative". Thanks for all the suggestions, didn't have much for "creative" yet. ----- Just to remind everyone: 1) TAS-only tricks only out of principle. 2) Preferably tricks that don't require a ton of explaining. 3) If possible, obsoleted runs are ideal. -remember to annotate your suggestions a little (gives them a higher chance of being used [correctly]). See what Drangonfangs did with his three suggestions for a particularly good example. -ESPECIALLY TELL ME WHAT PART OF THE GAME IT IS: things like what dungeon, what level, what act, what etc... essentially give me a unique title for the trick/passage that separates it from other clips from the same game for my big Excel file. YOU CAN STILL EDIT ANY OF THIS INTO YOUR SUGGESTIONS NOW! Thank you for everything so far! Looking better with every suggestion!
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Spikestuff wrote:
Svimmer send me a message on which exact points you are using. Besides downloading the Youtube encodes.
What should the timing be based on? the YouTube video? does it matter if it's not super-exact? and why do you need it if the youtube encodes are good enough? EDIT Spikestuff, here's a sample of what info I'm collecting. Is everything alright with it? The clip link has the starting time (as shown in the YouTube player) and "length" indicates how long the clip should be. movie - 1001 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdKgAsWYl2g#t=7m20s length - 8 NES Super Mario Bros 2 scene - crossing pit in 3-2 I'm downloading the YouTube videos in WebM HD1080p with Vorbis 192K sound. This should be OK right? Or whatever happens to be highest available quality. So I currently have just the movie number but would it be better to give you the whole link to the movie page every time?
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So I've started to create a big list of all the proffered clips. Was my last post TL;DR cause I don't see a lot of categorization/linking happening, although sometimes it's quite clear that it's a boss fight or zipping... sometimes it's hard to tell how impressive the trick is (i.e. pixel perfect or not quite, doable real-time?) So could you check your posts please? It would even be great if you included a short narrative for the tricks so I know better what I'm seeing... e.g. one of the first clips suggested is Super Mario Bros 2, level 3-2, crossing the gap with a POW and an Ostro, but I don't understand what the POW does in the clip. So it's very difficult to judge how impressive the trick really is. For that one I'm going to use it for a category like "Outside the Box", "Movement tricks" or "Sequence Breaking", but maybe it's also "Precision". Although admittedly this makes me into a kind of independent judge as well, seeing everything from the uninformed viewer's point of view. So I have IGNORED everything that didn't have a link to the whole run's video so I can see how far in it is even if they were great suggestions. I just didn't want the extra work when it wouldn't be so much work for each one to find links to their own suggestions (and write down a few words about it). It's just more likely you'll be able to find the clip and the right place faster than me if you at least know the game... So I need the following: -link directly to the right spot in a video of the WHOLE run -what episode/world/level it is, e.g. Super Mario Bros 2 3-2 or Mega Man 4 Cossack-2 So don't get me wrong guys, I like a lot of the suggestions and I'm ready to put in a lot of work myself, but the video should represent us as a community and there's limits to how much I can represent the community by myself. ----- What is the last word on where to extract the clips from? Nach suggested just YouTube HD videos? Someone was saying something about encoding especially for this video.
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Hmm... It looks pretty logical, all the second half looks logical with the ones that are left. Unless picking up the two gems at (14, 8) and (15,9) from the top after the tele instead of bottom before the tele and going right from there is any good?
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So for the record you're facing subpixel problems with no obvious solution (like phasing down before the jump) with the one jump where you phase a crate but aren't able to enter the space that was left? Did you try phasing the crate to the left (10, 3) instead of above (10, 2)? That would save you a jump, but you'd have to jump again to collect (10, 1).
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So I found this: www.youtubeslow.com Just add "slow" after "youtube" in a youtube video's address and it takes you to a site that slows the video down (by playing it back in chunks). Needless to say, this is useful for watching WIPs.
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It's a... drawing? And you don't even mention that in your hobbies? Gave you my votes (because you actually seem quite talented).
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So as it stands I have volunteered to create the storyboard for this video. It will of course still require lots of input from everyone if it is to be finished in any short amount of time, and to make it as good as it deserves to be!
"derakon wrote:
I know at least one of the published TASes has a string of like 5-6 "CRITICAL!" messages all onscreen at the same time -- I think it was used as the publication screenshot.
Spikestuff wrote:
Sign of respect the oldest runs that have not yet been obsoleted should be shown.
I'll look at all of this later, though ideally people who have suggestions should do as much of the research themselves as possible (as in what clip from what run and what category/-ies does it fit in - more on that follows below). Increases the chances of it being included if I can find it obviously. Thanks feos for multiple suggestions, I see the "Gooaal" ones are linked. I like your idea about continuing to use Mario Bros and taking the wall zip. I can already see live footage used in this section. So I will definitely consider that.
Patashu wrote:
If you have any ideas for tracks you want I can try my hand at it.
Thanks for the offer! I think what might happen is I'll take a look at people's suggestions and the kind of overarching story I start seeing and whenever something clicks I'll ask you to remix a piece of VGM for that part. In case you know anyone else (apart from Sanxion7) from the community with a proclivity for composing, ask them if they're interested or let me know who they are.
Warp wrote:
I love how using public domain music from a composer that died in the 18th century seems to be more problematic than using copyrighted game music that was composed like 10 to 20 years ago (with most of the composers very much alive.)
I count myself as being very ignorant of these matters in fact. I think one of the reasons VGM is "safer" is that if it's a remix it won't be recognized by any automatic algorithms. I don't know how legal it makes it but I'm looking at an incredible amount of VGM on YouTube with seemingly no copyright claims. Probably the same for the great majority of traditional recordings though the situation, as I understand, may now be evolving into something more restrictive. No comment on what's legal, but I think I'm going to construe this as "fair use"...
AnS wrote:
Remember, the first promotional video was this:
A-ha! So there has been another one before. After taking a short look it seems to emphasize the "godlike play" aspect of tassing as the newer one does. This makes me all the more think the new video should peek behind the scenes a lot more. Thanks a lot for posting this! Nach, thanks for finding the old thread! 10+ years and you haven't aged a bit! And NrgSpoon yes your idea has potential (showing someone's live streaming with time lapse). I hadn't even thought of using a stream (or just Skype) for doing the interview too. So that's a few more possibilities. ---- So keep giving me the following! Clip links, preferably with the time of whatever you wanted to candidate (right click and choose the second option on youtube), a little description of what it contains and what category or categories you think it could go under. Remember that by doing that you (who are more familiar with the source material) are directly saving me the effort! Here is an updated list of possible categories: Ridiculously CLOSE CALL/SURVIVAL otherwise high-PRECISION segments make sure it's instantly understood by anyone that precision is involved, i.e. not just an ordinary-looking trick that YOU know takes frame-perfect input GAME-BREAKING glitches and bugs LUCK manipulation unfair (for the boss) BOSS fights GODLIKE/SUPERPLAY (think 100% kills in an autoscroller) different from "survival" even if it involves standing in dangerous spots if it wasn't necessary ZIPPING unusual/fast MOVEMENT GRAPHICS glitching MULTIPLAYER mayhem ENDING: candidates for the final segment of the video (the rapid-fire montage) I will probably use a lot of the "leftovers" here anyway. LAST CLIP as in the very last one a strong candidate for this might be something that actually involves a game ending ENTERTAINMENT/PLAYAROUND style playing. (includes autoscroller antics) Drawing a pattern, making music etc. CREATIVE activity using weapon fire or other in-game currently Family Feud, Scribblenauts and Brain Age have been brought up DANCING EDUCATIVE like the Chrono Cross video EVOLUTION of a tas: for this category you should preferably find a particular segment of gameplay that has progressively gotten more and more streamlined over at least 3-4 TASes. I'm thinking of the way someone did the "evolution" of Quake's E4M3 map "Elder God Shrine", which I couldn't find the video of. It's just the same map from the 4 different QDQ movies. Candidates that are coherent enough to follow and show obvious changes between each revision score highly in this category. REAL LIFE: this is the category for real-life footage, i.e. if someone comes across an interview or even news story about tassing... also if you want to suggest a live streamer to ask for permission to use one of their broadcasts. So far I know of theenglishman. If you want to give MUSIC suggestions, you can also put that into a specific category (one of the more general categories). Please use the least amount of abbreviations! I didn't know what SM RBO (Super Metroid: Reverse Boss Order) was for instance. You may also edit the info into a post you've already made, just mark it with EDIT. I will read everything once again when starting to mark down the candidates for each category. And keep thinking about the following: 1) Does the casual viewer have the knowledge it requires to understand what is happening in the clip or what makes it unusual? There will be people watching who don't know anything about console gaming or about PC gaming for instance. If the candidate requires some background it might still get used but obviously there's a limit to how many can be fit in. Just a random example of a clip that's more difficult to use because of this:
Dragonfangs wrote:
Fusion 100% Yakuza - Does enough damage in the first phase to skip the second phase of the fight completely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EOBTd99nnY&t=55m17s
Clips that have the visual effect -factor or are otherwise self-standing pass the mark more easily. 2) Is it really TAS-only? I.e. requires a ton of manipulation or practically inhuman precision. 3) I still think the IDEAL candidate is from a publication that has been superseded by a video where the special moment was lost. Clips from previous movies may still be suggested of course.
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So thanks everyone for your replies! Seeing a lot of great ideas arising here. I like the structure ideas Grimpecent, Scrimpeh, Derakon, Creatheoceann, Spikestuff, Ais and others present. Thanks also for all the clip suggestions so far! I'm sure much of all of that will end up being used. Music: Personally I like the light-hearted theme for the playaround section at least. Using VGM makes sense to avoid copyright issues, but I don't see a reason why we couldn't consider using a remix by one of the community members (apart from the one mentioned, Sanxion7, there's that Australian guy isn't there? he seems to mostly have original 8-bit works...) Wouldn't it be nice to give them a little exposure if they like + it would make the video all the more special? From Sanxion7, I found as an example a purely instrumental "Korobejniki" (tetris theme) remix: http://sanxion7.com/album/as-i-hear-them-in-my-head. However, let's ask the composers if they wanna be involved directly. So looks like so far many people are suggesting something like: INTRO-HOW TASING WORKS-EVOLUTION OF A TAS-PRECISION TRICKS-LUCK MANIPULATION-CLOSE CALLS-BUG ABUSE-ENTERTAINMENT-WTF ending. Alternatively more by Derakon's version: INTRO-SUPERPLAY (i.e. normal gameplay without mistakes)(something in slow motion)-GAMEBREAKING-AMUSEMENT-SHORT CLIPS-CLIMAX. Do you guys think we could even have snippets of an interview or "taser at work" real life footage? I'm thinking of the "evolution" section. Without any music, but still with relatively snappy editing. Also the "how tasing works" section might look nice with something like that. And yes, let's avoid using tricks that aren't really TAS-only to cut down on the candidates. Also let's keep thinking about how the tricks appear to the "layman", so if the game isn't so well-known the trick should be all the more self-explanatory. Other than that, I'm thinking people should now either edit the posts they've already made to include a link to the Youtube clip (directly at the right time) and what category they think it goes under. You may still suggest a different one from what I listed above.
Post subject: TASVideos Documentary Thread: Vital Info in 1st Post
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Welcome to the TASVideos documentary thread! This project has been active since last Autumn and is currently being advanced by three people: main editor Svimmer and auxiliary editors thatguy and arkiandruski. The project will need more helpers later though. The goal is to create a 30-45 minute long introduction to what TASing is, how it works and the fruit it has borne. The up-to-date table of TASing clips can be found here. Note that there's other tabs for some more information. TAS Documentary Script (under construction). This will gradually evolve into a finished script. CLIP SUGGESTIONS (currently not active) Here's a summary of what I have to expect of suggestions: -a link to the [YouTube] video, preferably with HD options, and to the specific passage of play that you're candidating (right-click on the video and select "copy address at this point") -an explanation of what I'm looking at: What's going on? Is it manipulating luck, is it superhumanly precise, is it just entertaining...? Otherwise I might miss the point. Check the second tab in the table for more of the categories I've been using. -please mention what level/episode etc. it is so I'll know how to name the clip PERMANENTLY WANTED: -if you think there's a considerably better clip available from some game you know feel free to offer that one instead -if you want to contribute music to the video let me know what you can do and I'll know what to request of you later -if you think I've miscategorized something (which is a real possibility), let me know in this thread. Also for other problems in the big table. -if you have video editing skills, you might get to do something for the project later -just follow this thread! The community is being polled on many questions. CURRENTLY WANTED: -clips from a few arcade games -clips from other platforms you don't think are sufficiently represented In addition I should probably mention all of this again. An ideal clip... -is possible to understand without knowing the game -has a direct visual impact (i.e. looks good) -is from a game relatively popular for the platform -portrays a TAS-only trick -does it in under 30 seconds, the shorter the easier it'll be to write in These qualities form a kind of combined score that each clip gets given, though it's still quite subjective and not subject to refunds :P A low score in one or more areas doesn't mean the clip won't be used if it fits in somewhere. Check the more recent posts for updates on what is happening with the project. OLD POST FOLLOWS ----- So this came up in the IRC chat... There might as well be a new one done at some point. Here's the old one to remind you of what we currently have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mregEW6kVU I watched it again now and I think it's pretty good. The intro is well done. The only gripes people have had about it (feel free to pitch in on this), is that the game selection could be broader. There have even been new emulators on whole new platforms introduced since. There are multiple Castlevania and multiple Sonic series games for example. Therefore the purpose of this thread is now to start gathering suggestions for the next such site advertisement movie! Personally, I feel the ideal candidates for the movie are individual sublime moments/passages from movies that have since been obsoleted. Perhaps it is clear why. Another important criterion is that ANYONE can tell there's something special happening during that moment. Feel free to candidate anything you like though. I humbly throw out level 25 of Jetpack (DOS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm8fzBH7UhY It's a WIP but the route won't be replaced by anything less crazy.
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Thank you for the feedback lately Svimmer, it's appreciated.
Carryin' the torch while Nach is [in a sense] away!
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Bulge looks really nasty for enemy evasions. You did try alt-stepping down the "staircase" at the beginning? Did you try phasing (-10, 3) from the left side and collecting the gem above after that? Otherwise was it possible to do a frame of delay-phasing on that block?
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I guess the shield wasn't making the 53 route any better? Was there a way to plan the level with the shield since you knew it was about to spawn? How many frames faster would you have to be on 52 to make it one cycle earlier? Do you always create a route overview picture like the ones you and Nach have been posting? If you do, would it be a lot more effort to upload that one as well, it's simply so difficult to follow what exactly is happening and look for suggestions for improvement if it's just that crazy fast WIP to go on. Did the spinner affect your decision-making on Tornado? If so did you try manipulating the starting direction?
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:) :) :)
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Nach: Slamo wanted to tele-grab the gem instead of grabbing it, then activating the teleport and wasting the teleport wait time. So that saves time.
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Nach: Your eagle eyes were acutely missed on this thread! ;) Slamo: Wonderful stuff you've been updating the tricks with! Lovin' it!
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I'm looking at 51... Looks like you may not be able to phase the right wall of the basin the ball you start next to falls into... not in one go at least. So delay-phasing or going round? Your route looks pretty solid... hard to see obvious improvements. I guess you're using the teleporters to the fullest... i.e. if you can almost pick up an item through a tele using it regularly, then if you use it at the last possible moment, you might be able to do it. Otherwise, let's see if there's a ball cycle thing preventing you from taking the fastest route (looking at (-6,-5)) maybe you can do something useful during that time. Keep doing what you're doing Crea!
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Still with you Slamo! If you're saying you're feeling confident about routing stuff yourself, do you mean you don't necessarily need contributions to that from others? I think Nach said he's busy with a work project and myself I'm still going to update the RP periodically. Currently working on the (probably quite pointless) marble movement glitchiness. BTW You say you don't want to "spam" the thread, but I don't think that's really what's happening even if you should be the only one posting. So I'm guessing you're noticing your methods are getting pretty solid and I'm not surprised. Congratulations on reaching 49!
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Fighting with a new win 8 laptop today... be away for a couple of weeks and not necessarily very active with the project (especially if i can't even copy my files over... sheesh!). Created new entries into RP naming section for various new tricks... opinions wanted if you feel one of them misses the mark. I called one of them "delay-phasing" instead of "pre-phasing" to avoid potential confusion.
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