Rather than aiming purely for a fast completion, This TAS explores the miscellanea and (im)possibilia of the game, some of which has remained the subject of debate for lo these 35 years. Hopefully, this TAS and its attendant documentation may shed some light on the mysteries of this storied and venerable game. The maximum achievement in each event is demonstrated, as well as all of the secret bonuses. Though the focus of this TAS is not on score, it does achieve a higher single-Match score than the highest recorded score...the hard way. This may be of interest to some. Additionally, the input for this TAS can be modified to loop ad indefinitum, allowing for 100% completion and/or maximum score as desired. Alternatively, the input for this TAS can be truncated for digestibility.
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Technickle wrote:
2. If this gets rejected it's not that big of a deal to be honest, I am honestly only doing this because I think it's a fun thing to do when I am able to.
Thank you for your positive attitude, it's very appreciated. I also think that TASing is just a hobby, so being too serious would defeat the purpose.
Technickle wrote:
Don't get me wrong I enjoy making TAS'es and yes I make bad ones so people can yell at me over the internet.
Well, at least try to not waste too much time of the judges and publishers.
Technickle wrote:
3. If I feel as if I need to improve this with little to no margin for error then I will do so "eventually" (hopefully that's okay).
Thank your for your efforts. This site wouldn't exist if people didn't want to keep improving.
Technickle wrote:
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I agree with everything Spike said above here.
However, Soig, if you still think that this submission is not enough good, then please explain what does it need to be improved, so that someone else could make a better TAS with your help.
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It was good to watch. Gameplay is not much complex, but I feel that this game would be pretty hard to play in real time, so it looked pretty superhuman to me. Apart from that, I appreciated the the jumping tricks and the quick boss fights. Yes vote.
By the way, what's up with the game choice? It's so esoteric, and gets more and more dark through. And that ending it's a double plot twist :D
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FilipeTales, even if your submission gets rejected, nothing else will happen. It's just a formality, really. I still don't get why some people get so afraid or offended at getting rejection verdicts. Even the best of us can get a rejection when they wouldn't expect. I also got some unexpected rejections.
Maybe you're just afraid of getting your submission privileges revoked, but there is nothing to be scared of. Submission privileges are revoked only if a submitter makes the same mistake multiple times in a short timespan, which is not your case (yet). We would warn you in advance in case we begin to consider such. And even if you get your submission privileges revoked, it doesn't mean getting banned. A user with limited privileges can still use the forum, the chat, and upload movies in their userfile space. Also, a limited user can still be included in the author list of movies submitted by other users. And lastly, the most important part: if a limited user proves to have become able to meet the rules, then we can give back their submission privileges.
So please, stop bringing up this topic on the forums and chats. If we will find something wrong with your actions, we won't ban you without warning you first. Some staff members (me included) will also help you, if needed. Ok?
FilipeTales wrote:
It started when ThunderAxe31 saved 119 frames and my first TAS got rejected later on he posted his improved TAS but without me being not co-author so read a quote.
Your first submission was rejected because it was generally suboptimal through the whole movie. All I did was demonstrating it. Then I remade the whole TAS from scratch, so your original movie was not used by me, and thus I was the only author of the new Toki Tori TAS.
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Team 3: Magic Staff also got their logo!
FatRatKnight wrote:
Anyway, for the rest of you, no repeat defending champ to worry about, so TAS this with confidence you'll all win!
Don't worry, after DTC6 I still tend compare my skills with yours regardless of the circumstance, so it doesn't make much difference to me :D dunno about other people though. Also, if it weren't for these contents, we wouldn't see pirate around much.
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HappyLee wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I agree that the text of the rule could be misleading. Yet, we have at least one precedent of a submission being rejected just for being slower than RTA during a single boss fight alone: #5619: Mitjitsu's Saturn Astal in 20:29.92
The precedent is slower than existing RTA runs during a boss fight. That to me just sounds like a pretty big mistake, because TASers should at least consider and compare RTA strategies when making the TAS. But Soig's TAS is slower than a not-previously-shared WIP, and I don't think the two examples can compare.
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HappyLee wrote:
If by this standard, a lot of movies could be rejected. For example, someone submits a Super Mario 64 "120 stars" run, and someone else points out that there is a mistake in a stage, and posts his WIP that's maybe 3 frames faster, and so the judge must reject the whole run just by a WIP that shows a possible improvement in a single stage?
For this submission we're not talking about micro optimization that saved single-digit frames, but about strategies and generally better lag management that saved whole seconds. Of course we don't reject a submission just because of minor improvements: see this example I recently made in another thread.
HappyLee wrote:
When I read "existing records", I'm think of full complete runs, not a segment of a run. Since when a 2-minute WIP can be seen as a "record"?
I agree that the text of the rule could be misleading. Yet, we have at least one precedent of a submission being rejected just for being slower than RTA during a single boss fight alone: #5619: Mitjitsu's Saturn Astal in 20:29.92
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Yes, it would have been illegitimate if the game didn't have any kind of persistent data that keeps track of the game progress between soft resets.
We already allow resets for games that feature a save RAM, so I don't see much difference with a game that features softreset-only persistent data, since that data is relative to the game progression towards the movie goal (in this case it's full completetion).
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MUGG wrote:
Resetting to select a later level is usually not a legitimate strategy for speedruns.
You're perfectly right, especially about the "usually" part. For that reason, I'd wish you to read my judgment note in which I explained why I already made an exception for this game: #6123: poco_cpp's NES Dr. Mario "all levels" in 06:44.03
I'd like to know if you, or anyone else, finds any flaw with my previous verdict.
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Wow, I'm impressed. I didn't expect to see so much time saved!
By the way, did you ask to eufa_23 and tas_suki if they want to be included in the authors list for this submission?
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Soig wrote:
Why do you guys like hiding your improvements here and there?... Or submitting an improvement and then cancel it? And you won't continue your work after cancelling it...
Soig, no one here is doing this on purpose. No one is conspiring against you. It can happen to anyone to make a mistake and not see a known improvement. It also happened to me before, for a submission that I was judging. In that case, I raised an exception and accepted the submission because the known improvement was little and uncertain due to emulation differences (see more in this post). However, in the case of Contra III, the known improvement is very clear. I know that it's horrible when these situations happen, but beating all known records is always a requirement. Otherwise anything could get accepted just because an author was unlucky.
Edit: Just to be clearer about Code Name Viper: the fact that the old movie was shorter doesn't necessarily mean that it was faster. When comparing two movies, we have to take in account difference of emulation and difference of difficulty setting. BizHawk has different RNG and many more lag frames for Code Name Viper, and using the hardest difficulty setting doesn't always result in a harder TAS, because TASing can push a game so much that sometimes the harder difficulty results actually easier (for example, due to different enemy positions, as happened here).
Soig wrote:
But what's the point of telling me that at this time? Why there are guys always saying that they can improve this run while it is being judged? You must want others to praise you, in my opinion.
I repeat: it can happen to anyone. No one here is saying that they are better TASers than you just because they were aware of an improvement that you didn't notice.
I'm sure that if you used all the known tricks, your new TAS would be even faster than their. Everyone makes faster TASes by using tricks found by other people. TASing is not a competition, but a collaboration.
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Juarez wrote:
What is required of me? New TAS? I do not want and will not do TAS for this game again.
You're free to do what you want, TASing should be done for fun. But there are no guarantees that this submission will get accepted, unless someone uploads an improved movie that syncs.
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Snodeca wrote:
I can confirm it syncs.
Sorry, we still need for confirmation to come from a staff member. It's not a matter of trust, it's just that it's our responsibility to handle sync confirmation.
btw, Discord pic in IRC thread? omg such heresy