Posts for ThunderAxe31


Post subject: Re: checking uninitialized GBC SRAM data on real console?
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pachunka wrote:
There's also the possibility that they initialise it to a certain state out of the factory, which may not be the same result as putting in a fresh battery - doesn't strike me as likely, just something to consider.
Oh, I didn't thought about that possibility. Still, it looks very unrealistic to me, as that would require the mass production to have a special machine that automatically formats the SRAM after having the cartridge finished to assemble, which would be impractical. But on the other hand, I also have to admit that it would also be unrealistic for the SRAM to have been purposely developed in such a way that it automatically formats itself when you insert a new battery, especially since official cartridges are not supposed to have their battery replaced. The most probable case is that SRAM is just wiped out via software, that is, by the game code present in the cartridge ROM itself. In fact, most games check if the save data is corrupted, in which case they wipe out the SRAM. Interestingly, Pokémon Crystal clears the data to 0x00, while some GBA games use 0xFF bytes instead. In any case, today I bought on internet a device that allows to store the SRAM data from Game Boy cartridges into PC, which will hopefully give more clues about GB SRAM initialization...
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Post subject: checking uninitialized GBC SRAM data on real console?
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luckytyphlosion wrote:
The setup only works if (large portions of) SRAM is filled with $00s. Clearing save data does this action, otherwise the glitch would rely on uninitialized SRAM, which can have multiple non-deterministic values.
So... We know that uninitialized data is dependant on many non-deterministic factors, as Nach noted in this page, but I wonder if GBC SRAM could be an excepion, and give deterministic results when removing and re-inserting the cartridge battery. Are there any documented attempts of reading uninitialized GBC SRAM data? If not, I could buy the necessary hardware and test it myself on real console.
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luckytyphlosion wrote:
The setup only works if (large portions of) SRAM is filled with $00s. Clearing save data does this action, otherwise the glitch would rely on uninitialized SRAM, which can have multiple non-deterministic values. It's also important to note that BizHawk fills SRAM with $ff by default. A collision which aims for $ffff is possible, but would require a different strat to achieve. The specific comment by gifvex is a tongue-in-cheek reference to the "validity" of the Pokémon Gen 1 Save Corruption TASes on a real cartridge with uninitialized SRAM, but I won't get into that discussion here.
I see. I agree with the decision of using a more deterministic setup for the movie, even if it could be slower. Still, I'd like to hear opinions from other people, since we already have a Pokémon movie that makes use of uninitialized memory.
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Excellent work, Yes vote!
submission text wrote:
  • Save data is cleared because it's the totally moral thing to do before a save corruption TAS, though there could be a setup based on uninitialized memory
From what I can understand, you did this for comfirming the validity of the glitch execution, right? If that's so, then there is no need to do it for the submitted movie, since it's up to the Judges to check if a glitch used is legit or caused by emulation inconsistences. It's more something that an RTA attempt would need, for proving the validity of the run. I apprecciate the attempt to make the glitch setup less questionable, but it should be rather provided as an auxiliary movie file, in the submission text. Would it be possible to resync this movie for removing the part in which you clear the save data, or is that necessary for the specific glitch setup you used? In the first case we could replace the movie file in this submission, while in the second case the submission would have chances to be accepted as it is.
gifvex wrote:
Bonus note for the thread: it's been a theme of recent Pokemon TASes to sync on console, but BizHawk still has some issues with the gen 2 Pokemon games. For this movie, all that needs to change is 1 input in the box names to accomodate for an incorrect real-time clock value in the save file that affects the checksum. This assumes someone has a way to time the 10μs reset window on hardware though.
If such movie can sync on both real console and emulator (after having implemented the necessary accuracy improvements) then the movie could be published as secondary file for the publication, like it was already done for [3664] GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version by TiKevin83 in 1:36:41.68
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Post subject: My stance about this.
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Thanks £e Nécroyeur and zoboner, I didn't expect to receive so much support for this TAS idea. My reason for submitting this movie was to test the rules and see how such submission could be handled. The text for the relative rule was soon improved in order to make it clear that the password usage is permitted only for unlocking a hard-coded difficulty, which does not apply for the situation in this submission. As feos mentioned, the password in this game is used for storing and resuming game progress, which is different from unlocking game contents. Another important thing to note is that the rule can be objectively enforced by doing some basic reverse-engineering. I did it myself before making this movie, as I used trace logging in order to see how the password system works. As feos mentioned, the password is merely storing 4 bytes of data, which are used by the game for determining the game data. I couldn't spot any function that looks for a specific password, so there is really nothing hard-coded to unlock here. I also understand the reason for this rule now. For games that use a password for storing game data, it's basically impossible to figure out how to make the game objectively harder. The data used by Rolan's Curse is very simple, however I had to put some thought in order to decide if using the Sword or the Wand. Let's look closer at the problem:
  • The Sword can only hit from point blank, while the Wand can hit from some distance but does half damage.
  • The Sword is the initial weapon when starting a new game from scratch, while the Wand needs to be found in a chest in order to be obtained.
  • Sword and Wand replace each other when one of them is picked up from a chest.
  • The Sword is always faster for killing bosses, which is the biggest time save in the whole game, however the Wand makes casual play much easier.
So, which one to choose? For my TAS I decided to stick with the Sword, just because it's the stock weapon. However, making a password that makes you start with the Wand would inevitably result in a slower movie, and thus it could feel harder. In any case, we would enter in an endless argument about which one is more appropriate for a truly hardest play. And this is just Rolan's Curse, which stores very little data in the game password. Now just imagine how messed it could get if we had more settable data to debate of. This doesn't allow for any kind of clear cut, so it shouldn't be allowed as main branch for publication. And the other hand, this submission isn't providing enough differing movie contents for warranting a separate branch, nor meeting the entertainment requirements of the Moons tier.
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I also agree. Even though the current MSX run is great, it's very old, while the MS3 run is updated with newer game knowledge.
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Post subject: Needs more votes
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Please watch the temp encode I provided and vote. I'd also like to hear some thoughts in posts, especially for the No vote.
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my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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Is there any reason in particular for using the European version? Are there any known differences between versions?
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Looks like Rockman & Crystal introduced some heavy lag in stage 8, as some enemies are invisible.
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Post subject: Temp Encode
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I comfirm that I will partake with MESHUGGAH and Masterjun! Oh and thank you SO much for hosting a new DTC!
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<Masterjun> see how ThunderAxe31 made a typo "SRAM Gltich" in DTC6 <ThunderAxe31> what <MemoryTAS> LOL <MemoryTAS> I'VE BEEN CAUGHT <ThunderAxe31> LOOOOOL <Mothrayas> no no no, this is an easter egg :) <Masterjun> this clearly means, MemoryTAS was ThunderAxe31 all along * ThunderAxe31 takes off mask <MemoryTAS> I (we?) secretly hosted the contest twice in a row <Mothrayas> btw, speaking of zook man zx, the english version was dumped about a week or so ago <ThunderAxe31> MemoryTAS was just an alt account specifically made for hosting DTC twice (as well as hiding double personality issues) <Masterjun> oh no <Masterjun> the game is zook man zx english version all along <Masterjun> I knew it <ThunderAxe31> LOL <Masterjun> it all fits together <MemoryTAS> zook man zx nes edition * TotallyFerret (60f4d0db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.244.208.219) has joined <Masterjun> it's all a ruse <Mothrayas> zook man zx nespack edition <ThunderAxe31> you guys are killing me <Mothrayas> the ruse itself is a ruse <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA" <MESHUGGAHTAS> hmm maybe it's reverse emulation running SNES on NES so probably after a SNES SMW ACE it loads up the GBA emulator <MESHUGGAHTAS> Masterjun: GG I'm ded <Masterjun> see and the "not as complex as Zook Man ZX" just plain says it <Masterjun> because English is easier to understand for us <ThunderAxe31> you won everything
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Omnigamer wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
As I already wrote in this post, using a completely blank image resulted in an irreversibile desync for the submitted movie.
I don't quite follow what you did in your prior attempt; of course it will de-sync if it is completely blank. If it is just a single empty volume, the TOC won't match the values it needs. Most CD creation programs I've encountered don't allow you to make a TOC yourself, it is instead handled automatically after you've set up the track structure. The contents of those tracks shouldn't matter here, as the data in the TOC is the only thing used in generation. If you know what you want the TOC to look like, it is easy to make blank tracks of specific length that will make it match up to the necessary values. Edit: Re-read it closer, I think I have a better idea now but it's still not clear. Note that the generation scheme mainly relies on the track times (and full disc time) in seconds and minutes. This means that you need a fairly large change with any kind of padding scheme to make a notable difference.
This submission need its secondary image to be replaced with an image created from scratch. I've tried to, and I failed. In the first attempt I used a completely blank image that resulted in generating the same monster, however the movie desynced due to extra lag frames during the reading of the secondary image. I've tried to edit some movie inputs in order to resync, but more desyncs occurred later in the movie. In the second attempt I used an almost blank image, which successfully synced with the movie perfectly, as both monster generation and lag frames were the same as in the original submitted movie. However, this is not acceptable because the rule forbids to use an image the contains any data from external sources, even if small. This is exactly what I've tried to do and what the game did. If this seems strange to you, then just try yourself: create a secondary image from scratch that will be able to play back the submitted movie without desyncs. If no one manages to do so, then this submission will have no chances to be accepted.
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Fishaman P wrote:
From a viewer's perspective, I could see this password having merit in a full game run. But "game end glitch" already screams "use any means necessary to go faster", and this password does the polar opposite of that.
Then, would for this branch be more appropriate to use a password that makes the game easier, in your opinion? If not, why?
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Omnigamer wrote:
You should be able to take the current disc's TOC and graft it onto an otherwise blank disc for identical performance. The code I used for my MR1 generator can be used with minor modifications to build a comparable image based on TOC data.
As I already wrote in this post, using a completely blank image resulted in an irreversibile desync for the submitted movie. However, I've just managed to make an image that works, you can download it from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8xslirn7a6qtxb/MR2%20Pixie%20for%20%236033.zip?dl=1 I basically took the image used by the author and erased all the data except for few file names and text strings, which is about 1Kb in total. The resulting image virtually contains no copyrighted data.
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I understand that. Still, I wanted to make and submit this movie, since this wasn't clear to me and I wanted to test this TAS idea, since there aren't precedents for the sort.
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In my opinion, having more health doesn't necessarily make a run more impressive; it entirely depends on how trivial the damage abuse technique is. When I read the term "damage boost" I usually think of games in which getting damage can be abused and optimized for gaining some temporary speed boosts, or even performing zips. But in Rolan's Curse, there is nothing notable in taking damage, as it simply allows to pass through the enemy; instead, it's true the opposite: if you have less health, you have to put more work in the routing of health power-ups and health refills. Otherwise I could have simply used a password that maximizes the player's health to 16 hearts, which would result in a plain run that simply walks through every single enemy because it wouldn't need item drops at all (except for the pickaxe).
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Excellent run.
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feos wrote:
So for this submission, it'd have to be tweaked to use a non-arbitrary extra image that meets the requirements, it can even work the same as the image used here. Then we'll judge the actual movie finally.
...I'll try to make a handcrafted image that syncs for this movie, as resyncing the movie would basically mean to re-do everything fron scratch.
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Memory wrote:
I would like to note that the Guidelines state the following:
In cases where the difficulty does not matter at all, such as in glitched runs that skip straight to the credits, then you do not need to change the difficulty at all.
Whether this run is actually acceptable or not, the Guidelines were not followed here.
That guideline is clearly referring to runs that don't encounter difficulty-affected gameplay at all, due to the game being skipped in its entirety. Instead this run is facing some gameplay affected by the "difficulty" before skipping to the credits.
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I'm really sorry but I have to say that I found this movie less impressive than the 1 player one. Meh vote from me. By the way, kudos for the dedication! I'm looking forward to see more TASes from you!
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Something like this maybe?
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
Memory wrote:
So qualitatively, this image is illegitimate in two ways instead of one.
THIS = main reason I voted No. Submitting this was a bad idea from the beginning, even if it was adelikat that suggested you do it in the first page.
Could we Pretty Please use the voting system just for expressing how much we feel entertaining from watching the movie? The voting system is not intended for saying that you think that a submission should be accepted or not; only use posts for that.
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Post subject: updated temp encode
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I've replaced the temp encode in the submission, in order to show the little new glitches for anyone who could be interested.
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