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mtvf1 wrote:
I know some games that you can lose everything and still can touch the end, like some sports game. Could we allow only accept the fastest?
If we have a tas for moon, could we can accept a bad ending? No matter what it's for Vault or not?
I think these questions are too much off topic, so please post them in this thread: Ask a Judge
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Wait...doesn't this mean that multiple goal choices are valid for vault runs? Why can't there be both a glitched and non-glitched run in vault?
EDIT: Unless you are claiming a glitched any% version is better than a non-glitched any%....that I agree with.
We only accept the fastest run for Vault. It's not about using glitches or not, it's about being faster.
However, note that for full completion we have a rule that forbids glitching the intended completion progression: see below.
DrD2k9 wrote:
But I don't agree that a glitched any% should obsolete a non-glitched 100% or full completion run.
Indeed, a run that goes with "game end glitch, best ending" is not allowed for Vault, as we recently clarified in the rules text, explaining that for full completion it is not allowed to use ACE exploits or memory corruption in order to access the relative completion flags directly:
Vault wrote:
Full completion criteria must be reached through in-game actions.
Arbitrary code execution (ACE) is not allowed for any full-completion category for the Vault. Arbitrary code execution of ROM data, and memory corruption tricks to write to arbitrary memory are also not allowed.
If a game has a progress counter, it must be filled by actions that increment the counter in gameplay. Modifying the progress counter through ACE or memory corruption is not allowed.
If full completion is counted by obtaining a set of items, these items must be collected through in-game methods. Using memory corruption to place items into an inventory is not counted towards full completion.
If full completion is counted by fulfilling a set of flags, these flags must be set through in-game mechanisms. Using memory corruption to set completion state flags is not allowed.
If a progress counter is filled by collecting a set of items or fulfilling a set of flags, all individual components of this set must be collected or fulfilled. Collecting or fulfilling the same component multiple times to inflate the progress counter is not counted towards full completion.
However, glitches that don't modify the relative progress value or completion flags are allowed. As an example, see this recently accepted submission: #5910: luckytyphlosion's GB Pokémon: Blue Version "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" in 37:55.33. It makes use of heavy glitch abuse, however none of these are touching the flags relative to game completion.
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klmz wrote:
Hold on. Does it mean that we can accept "bad endings" aiming for the Vault publications for games that currently only have "good endings" aiming for Moon publications?
Yes, bad ending runs can be accepted as a separate branch from "best ending" movies, assuming the bad ending is achieved faster than the best ending.
Dwedit wrote:
So does this mean a glitchless run is not allowed in Vault?
Correct. Vault does not allow goals that consist in forgoing use of known glitches or tricks.
The Vault rule is very simple:
Vault wrote:
Goal choice is limited to fastest completion time (any%), or full-completion (such as 100% or best ending)
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fsvgm777 wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I just figured this movie should get an appropriate label, since it's skipping more than half of the route required for Ending 3... In my opinion "game end glitch" fits nicely. Any thoughts?
Then from my understanding, it no longer obsoletes klmz's TAS, since it performs the Ending 1 route without the "hut glitch" (which doesn't work in the USA release anyway).
No, it still obsoletes klmz's TAS, because the main goal is beating the game as fast as possible, not doing it in a certain way. Also, we're in Vault territory, for which only two branches are allowed unless the game features extra modes, which is completely unrelated to the ending possibilities. So only fastest completion and best ending are allowed for Vault publications for this game, and this run still counts as Vault fastest completion.
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I just figured this movie should get an appropriate label, since it's skipping more than half of the route required for Ending 3... In my opinion "game end glitch" fits nicely. Any thoughts?
Edit: According to the Publisher Guidelines, if the glitch used belongs to a common glitch type, that glitch type name should be used. In other words, "game end glitch" is preferred over more the more specific "text glitch" or "hut glitch".
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p4wn3r wrote:
I read a bit of the Math Blaster thread and it's the exact opposite of what you're implying it is.
Essentially, a judge decides something and people protest after many pages demanding to reconsider the rule. Then the rules get changed, the dicussion is acknowledged in the change, the decision retracted and the judge casts a new verdict. No problems in the process.
Let me clarify: the reason why I decided to give a second chance to the Math Blaster submission was not because "people protested", but instead because I found the arguments brought from a person (in this case feos) to be worthy of being considered, as I wrote in the judgment notes.
It's not a matter of how many people protest and how hard they protest, it's a matter of how valid and useful are the argument they bring, may it be from staff people or regular users.
And by the way, the rule for educational games didn't get changed, but clarified.
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MUGG wrote:
Audio is out of sync.
I blame Virtualdub... Let's see if I can upload a replacement reasonably soon...
Edit: no, it turns out it was VBA-rr's fault... Let's see if I can dump it correctly...
Edit 2: specifically, it was my fault for making a mess with VBA. the new encode is ready.
If it explicitly chooses several goals for entertainment, and there are counterpart runs different by one of its internal conditions (including speed-based and obsoleted), such condition needs to be mentioned in each counterpart run.
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Link to video
I don't like much the game, but the route planning and the tricks make it interesting to watch. Yes vote.
Edit: I've made a minor correction to the label. The "world" word is all lowercases in-game.
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klmz wrote:
It might be a bit off topic, but why should the BIOS screen be included? The BIOS screen is not part of the game software.
The BIOS execution does influence game execution. In fact, some movies would desync if the BIOS were removed. Since we aim for the highest emulation accuracy possible, including the BIOS for all TASes is highly encouraged.
By the way, Windows is a special case, so it really doesn't apply here.
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MUGG wrote:
Thanks ThunderAxe!
No problem!
ruadath wrote:
Why not just make it the default setting?
That's a great idea, since we can't expect everyone to know about this detail before starting a new project with GBC BIOS. I've posted an issue on github: https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/issues/1176
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So, I've tried restoring the original game text by copy-pasting from the original ROM and overwriting only those parts to the ROM used for the submitted movie... and it resulted in desync. So I guess this movie can sync only on Toy Story (Unl) [hM219].nes.
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MUGG wrote:
By the way, why didn't you include the BIOS screen? It's officially supported in the latest BizHawk release. It would probably be possible to easily resync it on it.
I wasn't aware there was an update to Gambatte.
Would you like to look into resyncing it?
Ok, I'll see what I can do.
Edit: Done! It was trivial, all I had to do was adding 186 frames at beginning and change Equal Lenght Frames to False, otherwise the game skips a bunch of input polls. Please always use this setting for Game Boy TASing.
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Sanqui wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
This game is much less famous (and infamous) than its prequel, and in my opinion is also very low quality for a GBA game, mainly due to bland graphics and music.
I almost take offense to this. In my opinion the graphics in this game are very impressive, in particular the battles, featuring detailed backgrounds and animated Denjuu, are fast paced and dynamic. The GBA Pokémon games pale in comparison!
As for the soundtrack, which, by the way, was composed by Minako Adachi who went on to join the Pokémon music team from Black/White 2 onwards, is top notch and thanks to the Natsume sound driver, beats most GBA games in sample quality as well.
Ok, I take that back. After watching how the battles look like in casual gameplay, I see what you mean. I also took some time to listen some tracks in full, and indeed are well composed.
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I consider this movie to not be much entertaining, but I want to ask for more feedback before giving the verdict. Please also post an explaination beside your votes.
This game is much less famous (and infamous) than its prequel, and in my opinion is also very low quality for a GBA game, mainly due to bland graphics and music.
As for the gameplay in the movie, it features more repetitiveness compared to the published Telefang 1 movie.
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It was short and sweet, and it didn't leave any feel of disappointment to me, so I guess I'm giving a yes vote.
By the way, why didn't you include the BIOS screen? It's officially supported in the latest BizHawk release. It would probably be possible to easily resync it on it.
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EZGames69 wrote:
I think it's worth mentioning that the ROM the author used is a "patched" version of the original bootleg. As far as we know, all it fixes is the grammar mistakes in the storyline portion.
Actually, this patched version also features a fix that allows to run on FCEUX. The original ROM doesn't run on any emulator at all.
By the way, this is how the original ROM looked like: https://youtu.be/bFtzDFGGUfA
Note that the ROM used in this video is actually a patched version of the patched one... in order to restore the typos back.
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I just tried forcing the movie into starting from a SaveRAM with 0xFF bytes. Indeed, this removed the error screen at the beginning, however... this is not the reason why the movie desyncs. As fsvgm777 pointed out, this movie has been made by using an interim version; in fact, it syncs fine on that interim version he pointed out.
I'll see if there is any official release that can replay the movie; if not, I'll see if it can be resynced with some quick input edits...
Edit: the movie syncs fine on 2.2.2. I'm making a temp encode. It's going to take about 3 hours plus 3 for uploading.
Edit 2: have the encode:
Link to video
