Practically the only run that people seriously suggested be unpublished was Guanobowl's Ocarina run for being slower than the current <i>unassisted</i> record.
What? Were these people serious? That like unpublishing the SMB TAS because a new timesaver has been discovered... Unpublishing a run because it can be improved is way more rediculous than unpublishing something because it's not entertaining.
It was not being suggested for unpublication because it was not optimal. That had nothing to do with it. It was suggested for unpublication because there was a regular speedrun which was faster.
A TAS which aims for maximum speed and does not beat a regular speedrun is not only against the rules, it's also shameful. It's a laughing stock.
For a really "retro" TAS (would that be some kind of "double retro" or "meta-retro", a retro-TAS of a retro console game?) I would vote for a page dedicated to Solstice. It was one of the first runs ever published and has a long history with many improvements. It's also IMO one of the most interesting runs.
I disagree that Terimakashi's run should not have been obsoleted. It was created well before all the currently-known techniques were known, making it quite sub-optimal, and you can really see that. If you first watch the highly optimized runs (the non-glitched ones) and then Terimakashi's, you can really see the sub-optimalities. At least in my case it really bothered the viewing experience.
However, whether Terimakashi's run should have been obsoleted by another 14% run or the 6% one is a different issue. (Personally I wouldn't mind watching an optimized 14% run.)
All these problems would of course be solved by removing religion and just thinking rationally.
All the problems? I don't think so.
A lot of atrocities committed in the history of humanity, even today, have been committed for reasons which had nothing to do with any religion. Sometimes it's about money and resources, sometimes it's about greed or prejudice, sometimes it's simply because people are dicks to each other.
For instance, AFAIK the Rwandan genocide was more politically and racially motivated than religiously. Drug wars around the world (but especially in central America) are motivated by greed. Heck, the two world wars were politically, not religiously, motivated. (Also many atrocities in the second war were racially motivated rather than religiously.)
As mentioned in the other thread Super Metroid has quite a lot of history behind it, so it would make a good addition.
Another game with lots of interesting history is rockman.
The biggest issue when severely sacrificing speed for entertainment is how to objectively rate one better than another.
There is no need to be "objective" about this; just let the majority vote on what they think is the more entertaining one.
I fear that that kind of voting could have the unintended consequence that most new submissions will get accepted to obsolete the older one, not because it's better than the older one, but simply because it's different. In other words, people would get tired of watching the old run and welcome a different run, almost completely regardless of what those differences might be and whether they actually make the movie better or not.
This would cause the overall quality of the movies to fluctuate wildly, and it will probably cause flamewars about whether a certain run should really be obsoleted or preserved. It may even get to the point where all submissions are accepted without obsoleting the older ones, in which case we might end up having dozens and dozens of different machinima videos of the same game. The site would effectively become the youtube of old console games.
One guys terrorist is always another guys freedom fighter.
There is a difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. The main target of freedom fighters are (usually invading) enemy troops. The main target of terrorists are innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the military.
I think at this point it might be a good idea to just open an alternate site for non-TAS playarounds, since the idea is clearly wanted but unacceptable in this environment.
Dude, no. It should happen here.
The idea of having completely different sections for different types of videos has been presented several times in the past. Never caught enough interest, though.
I find it rather ironic that you first advocate "not fixing what isn't broken" and then immediately suggest changing the forum scheme. Exactly what is broken about the scheme, which needs fixing?-)
PS3 was also the cheapest Blu-ray player (as well as one of the best) at its release, but that hasn't helped it any.
I wouldn't consider 22 million units sold a very bad result. I'm pretty sure that at least some people bought it at least partially because of the Blu-ray support.
We already have a lot of runs where speed isn't the main goal... all 100% runs for instance, but there are also no damage runs, 100% kill runs and so on.
I think it's incorrect to say that "speed isn't the main goal" with those runs. The speed is still the main goal, but some restrictions are being applied for entertainment purposes. As an example, the Mario64 run which collects all the stars has still speed as its goal: It tries to collect them as fast as is possible.
This is just playing with words... you know we both mean the same. There is nothing wrong saying "getting 120 stars is the main goal", and "as fast as possible" the secondary. It might indeed be more clear to call "as fast as possible" the goal, and "get 120 stars" a restriction... but that wasn't the point.
I was not playing with words. I was contrasting what the original poster wanted with the claim that "we already do that with the 100% runs", which is not the same thing. Even the 100% runs are frame-polished to be as fast as possible, and may often abuse glitches and unintended shortcuts.
We already have a lot of runs where speed isn't the main goal... all 100% runs for instance, but there are also no damage runs, 100% kill runs and so on.
I think it's incorrect to say that "speed isn't the main goal" with those runs. The speed is still the main goal, but some restrictions are being applied for entertainment purposes. As an example, the Mario64 run which collects all the stars has still speed as its goal: It tries to collect them as fast as is possible.
The only runs where speed is genuinely not the main goal are those fighting games where the goal is to show-off as many "cool moves" and "perfect fighting" as possible. In them speed is genuinely irrelevant.
As for the original post, I remember suggesting in the past a category of "uses the route intended by the game developers". In other words, it doesn't use any (bug-abusing) shortcuts which were not intended by the developers, doesn't abuse glitches to eg. get objects before the developers intended, etc. Also zipping would be prohibited because, while it might go through the level in the same direction as the "legit" route, it does so in a way not intended by the game developers. Even shortcuts which do not abuse any programming bugs, but instead obvious level design oversights (left in the game probably due to lack of testing, or because it would be too difficult for a real player to abuse the design error), would be prohibited because it was not intended by the developers.
Just "playing fast" would still be allowed, though. For example bosses can be killed with superhuman accuracy, ie. faster than any regular human could do, etc. Just because the boss is defeated faster than a human could possibly do doesn't change the route.
Putting a submission in quarantine visible only to core audience is kind of missing/defeating the purpose: it will still clog up the 'bench until it's reviewed, and it's mainly (read: only) the core audience that actually cares about it.
Note that it would happen only for the first submission of a new user. Thus it would probably not happen very often. The amount of work the "quarantine judges" would have to do would probably not be at all excessive.
Does anyone have any statistics on how many first-time submitters there are per some timespan (eg. per month or something)?
The 1 week limit was also interresting idea, who submit several movie in the same day anyway...? beside trolls...
There may be legit reasons for submitting more often. Someone could eg. accidentally submit the wrong movie, then notice it, cancel and resubmit the correct one. Or maybe he noticed a small improvement possible at the end of the movie.
What happens if they try to submit another video when the first is still hidden? Denial page?
It goes to the same quarantine section. Only after one of the user's submissions has been approved, any subsequent submissions will be handled normally.
Maybe something simpler: First submission by a user goes to the quarantine section only visible to core users. If the core users approve that it's a legit submission, it will be released as a normal submission, and afterwards any subsequent submissions by that user are processed normally like now.
