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Catastrophe, thanks for doing all this research. It's certainly helpful to directly test 'what if' scenarios, before people theorize about them endlessly.
Catastrophe wrote:
1) Open a bomb passage north
2) Walk thru
3) Go back
4) Press L+R+A
5) Wait enough time to be able to swing your sword again
6) Press L+R+A
I believe you can take away the sword and the A button to simplify this sample procedure I a bit. More generally, the game will crash provided the requirements you've already outlined:
The requirements are: xpos (0x70) = 78h, ypos (0x84) == 5dh, and "most recent door" = north. If one of these things is not true then the crash will not happen.
Sleepz actually mentioned the left+right game crash technique long back in one of the Zelda threads. Its requirements (other than pressing left+right a couple times) are merely xpos (0x70) = 78h, ypos (0x84) == 5dh. Have you watched Phil's Zelda April Fool's movie from this year 2006? The "most recent door" need not be north. You can crash the game there regardless of whether the door is open, a bomb hole, a shutter, or a wall.
Here is another idea for which I think you might have the know-how to disprove: dungeon linking by Ramzi. I have never been unable to spontaneously generate doors by poking at the RAM, so I think this might require using a level editor or putting in Game Genie-like codes (that shadow the ROM instead of the RAM).
edit: Added link to Sleepz' mention of the left+right crash glitch from May 2005. Couldn't find Phil's...
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With the recent Zelda mania I figured it wouldn't hurt to bump this topic. I am hoping someone might be able to answer my question this time...
I wrote:
I posted this question over at Legends Alliance a while back and I never got a response:
me at Zelda Legends wrote:
I recall there was a Nintendo Power issue where Counselors' Corner featured some original Legend of Zelda coverage despite the game being quite dated by that time. One Q&A it featured went something like "How do I rig the money making game?". There was also a 'meet the counselors' section where one dude listed his greatest video game achievement as having beat the Legend of Zelda without a sword.
I'd like to locate this issue and see again how those punks have misphrased it as 'beat' when it really should say 'got all the way up to Ganon and died'. Would anybody be able to tell me which # issue this is?
Since you guys generally have more mastery of games from that era, perhaps one of you could help identify that NP issue? Back then I actually did work myself on the console all the way up to the finale without a sword, only to find that I couldn't finish off Ganon.
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edit: No need for me to repeat Baxter's timeline! Although I would like to say that in this case it seems that sharing findings has helped a lot with the collaborative process of research and discovery. As such, I'm going to list some other glitches that I think might deserve some further exploration.
1. Red potion crashes: A long time back Sleepz pointed out that you can crash the game by using a potion on the same frame as picking up a triforce piece. I've also found that the game crashes if you use a potion while entering a dungeon, going down a staircase, or meeting Princess Zelda. Haven't yet been able to do much besides crash the game or kill the overworld music, but maybe there are other possibilities. Demo: zelda_potioncrash.fcm
2. Window of opportunity: Just like in Rockman 3 ~ 6, you can do a useless move before the fight with Gannon starts. Demo: zelda_windowofopportunity.fcm
3. Turning everything gray: This effect is only graphical, but the point here is that whistle has some of the same game freezing properties as the red potion (while being less prone to crashing the game). Who knows, maybe it could cancel some other effects that aren't merely graphical? Demo: zelda_grayscreen.fcm
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Where are you getting these time estimates? Watch a movie such as primo's and you can see the time it takes to walk from the first patch of grass all to the Viridian pokemon center is only 20 seconds.
And the time it takes to enter, exit, and heal your pokemon at a pokemon center alone is more than 15 seconds. That leaves 5 seconds for the theoretical battle, so it's a no-go.
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JSmith wrote:
Is it worth it to deathwarp back to to Viridian City after delivering Oak's Parcel without using any glitches?
That walk takes 20 seconds, not much compared to the time it would take to heal at a pokemon center plus another battle where you have to take several hits.
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Chamale wrote:
In Viridian Forest, run into a wild Pikachu in front of a trainer (I've had this happen on console). Get owned by Pikachu. You white out and return to the last pokemon centre, thus triggering a trainer-fly glitch.
On the cartridge, I'm sure a lot of players have had the experience of fighting a random battle right when a trainer would normally walk up and battle. For this you don't even need to be at a full half-screen distance as is required with trainer/fly.
Fainting from the random battle doesn't disable your start button nor activate any other obvious glitch though. And if you win the random battle, the trainer just walks up and battles like normal.
If I'm misunderstanding and it's something else you've done on an actual GameBoy, how about you make a vbm and post it here?
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Sleepz wrote:
entrances can’t be entered
They can, although I haven't seen a place where this is likely to save time. edit: demo here
Btw props to you on your findings, especially the left/right wrapping glitch.
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AKA that's a cool glitch.
JSmith wrote:
Squirtle may still be faster if it uses Tail Whip once, eliminating a Critical Hit.
LagDotCom mentioned that Charmander could theoretically faint after four non-critical hits from Squirtle, so if that's true there's nothing to eliminate.
A few days ago I tried out the warp route described by Fractal above. Indeed it's faster, and also glitchier thus more entertaining. Edit: Here is a demo using this route which finishes at 4:43.33 (despite continuing off AKA's run which gets the potion late). I think some people might find a demo helpful, since the trick isn't entirely repeatable using just Fractal's instructions. When walking on the bridge, it seems that step count must be carefully controlled in order to make it to Celadon.
In the meantime has anyone found a shorter route or confirmed a faster battle strategy?
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FractalFusion wrote:
the steps required to trigger the glitch do not count until you enter Pallet Town.
Ahh, that explains it. Thanks.
access attack menu, exit menu, and run.
Great discovery!
I think it could now be faster picking Bulbasaur first to lose the first battle.
What's slow about picking Charmander then losing the first battle? Is it just impractical to manipulate Squirtle to do max damage non-critical hits and miss your own attack?
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FractalFusion wrote:
It's returning "404 not found".
Hmm, I don't know what's up with nicopon.jp, but I've gone ahead and mirrored the file elsewhere: cstrakm-pocketmonstersred.flv (requires Wimpy FLV player).
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AKA, thanks for giving this a shot. Unfortunately, your run is at least one second slower than cstrakm's movie. Reasons include:
- getting the potion from the boy instead of the PC
- encountering the random battle late
Please watch cstrakm's movie and read the most recent posts in the dokokashira thread. Voting no here, but I am confident someone will produce an acceptable movie within a couple days. Maybe you could team up with LagDotCom on this. Last I heard he was stuck on luck manipulation, but it sounds like you've gotten the hang of it.
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Looks good. I had forgotten there is already a potion in the PC. I'm glad this shortcut saves several seconds and gets the run under 5:00.
For a submission-quality run, here are two shortcomings I spotted in cstrakm's demo:
- He takes four critical hits to beat the rival, whereas Chamale has pointed out (and primo has demonstrated in his WIP) that this can be done with two regular and two critical hits.
- Some better luck manipulation could probably get the random battle to happen on the first patch of grass.
By the way, if anyone has trouble watching directly off nicopon.jp, I recommend downloading the FLV directly (edit: link updated) then using Wimpy FLV player.
Good luck executing this TAS, LagDotCom!
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The dokokashira door glitch applies only to Pocket Monsters - Red Version (J) (V1.0) and Pocket Monsters - Green Version (J) (V1.0). I think that's the main reason there hasn't been that much excitement about this glitch.
Anyone who would like their 15 minutes of fame may complete the short run and submit it tonight. It shouldn't be hard since FractalFusion has already posted an AVI of the 5-minute path.
I think it's safe to guess this soon-to-arrive movie would be published alongside the US version movie, rather than replace it. The most similar situation to this would be that of the Link's Awakening and Link's Awakening DX runs. Some fans view the two as a glitchy warps run alongside a no-glitch-warping (but still glitchy, and still uses the intentionally programmed warps) run. However, it's important to note that Link's Awakening DX is a different game, one that doesn't allow dramatic warping (like US Pokemon R/B/Y, as far as we know at this time).
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primorial#soup wrote:
we don't need [...] Surf
That's something I hadn't thought of, but it sounds like a great idea. In that case, you'll have to make sure to do the glitch a total of three times: once to get info Saffron Gym, once to quickly bike from Pallet Town into the Cinnabar Gym, and lastly to bike up to Indigo Plateau. That's a total of 1500 bike steps to plan out, but it seems like it'll still save a lot of time.
edit: primo, I read your step-by-step description and can see you already completely understand this glitch. Good luck with planning and executing this TAS.
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Sorry about that Rridgway, I should have written a disclaimer that my demos are usually made from unclean RAM. In this one, I have initialized all vanishable sprites because that allowed me to explore the glitch for making Snorlax disappear. This is the only reason Prof. Oak appears there.
You can use these savestates to demonstrate some glitches within reason. However, you cannot, for example, take it as evidence that Abra can actually learn Fly, etc.
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You need only one pokemon to be poisoned, and it need not be the main battler. For example, you could have a Weedle poison the starter, deposit it in the PC, then retrieve it much later in the game shortly before making a 500th step for the Safari Zone.
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Rridgway, the answer is still no because you actually don't receive poison damage nor can you faint while walking automatically (Biker's Lane does not count as automatic movement, by the way). I used these GameShark codes to verify:
01006CD1
01006DD1 <-- Set HP of 1st Pokemon to 0
010098D1
010099D1 <-- Set HP of 2nd pokemon to 0
01FF6FD1 <-- Poison 1st pokemon
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Sounds promising. You mentioned you can't build the rerecording version on your system, but it sounds like you've built a non-rerecording version. If you have a binary that runs on Linux or Windows, could you provide it to us? After all, the Pokemon bug isn't hard to test without rerecording. In addition to the Super Mario Land 2 problems, this could provide further motivation for fixing the Echo RAM bugs in vba-rerecording ASAP.
edit: Using the fixed (non-rerecording) emulator that was later posted in the VBA thread, I successfully executed the dokokashira door glitch and beat the game in a few minutes. Dwedit wins the internet.
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Fainted pokemon still appear in the credits, so your poison idea doesn't work. For the image you posted, you should link it instead of trying to embed it. I think I might have seen something like that before (Ash and Prof. Oak positioned as such), but you'll have to remind us how you did it so we can confirm it doesn't waste time.
About badge checks, it seems I spoke too soon. You can skip the Earthbadge check by biking on the far right. Now we can skip Viridian Gym altogether, breaking into Saffron Gym has become a viable timesaver (to skip both Pokemon Tower and Silph Co.), and it finally seems possible to complete the game in less than an hour.
Demo: pokemonred_skipearthbadge.vbm
I also should have mentioned that the Boulderbadge check is easily skipped by not entering the building with the guard, although you'll still need to beat Brock early in the game to get past Pewter City.
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Yes. Entering or exiting any building, being forced to walk somewhere (e.g. a "the door is locked" push), or having a trainer walk up to you will remove the walk-through-walls status.
Whereas with wild pokemon battles, use of teleport/fly, trainer battles initiated by talking, or death, the walk-through-walls status will remain.
Being on the far left or far right makes no difference with the badge checks.
You should really consider testing some of these things yourself, since there is even the option of playing directly off the sample movie I posted (pokemonred_sequencebreak.vbm). If you need Fly to get to various cities, simply patch it on with 011373D1.
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Pokemon Mansion is where you get the the key to open Cinnabar Gym!
I'm not sure why the Safari guards don't blockade when in walk-through-walls mode, but the same isn't true for the badge checks. One nice thing, however, is that we can bike over the water and even skip the Victory Road cave area entirely. primo had mentioned that it would be a huge timesaver if there was some way to avoid having to push the boulders around, and now we have it.
About the other route choices, I realized that the current TAS exits and reenters Viridian Gym, which won't be practical with forced entry. Instead of breaking into Saffron and Viridian Gyms, another route possibility would be to skip Pokemon Tower but break into Silph Co. That requires doing the glitch only once, and beating Silph Co. opens up Saffron Gym anyway, right?
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I found the bike to make no difference on the success of any of the glitches. For the future run, of course it'll be important to use the bike when performing the glitch. 500 steps would certainly be a lot of time wasted if on foot...
By the way primo, thanks for posting your recent WIP. I just hope this recent glitch discovery remains consistent with your initial progress (such as deciding to run Pokemon Blue and catching a Gengar). For a new route, it'll likely be worthwhile to use the glitch to enter Saffron Gym and Viridian Gym by force (to skip both Silph Co. and Pokemon Tower). Now the challenge in route planning is that you'll need to figure out how to (twice) best overlap 500 steps with other work in the game.
I'm not so sure if it'll be worthwhile to skip Pokemon Mansion, but that's also something to think about.
