Posts for hanzou


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Yeah Chamale, I tried out your poison idea just now. It didn't work, for the reason LSK stated. However, it does seem a bit strange that the Safari Zone and poison effects use different step-counting mechanisms. edit: I realized that we can simply combine the above two ideas. End the 500th step while jumping off a ledge, then have the last Pokemon die from poisoning while inside the Safari building. Now we can perform many of those shortcuts (enter Viridian Gym early, skip Pokemon Tower altogether, etc). Congrats, Chamale. Here is a demo: pokemonred_sequencebreak.vbm
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Michael Fried wrote:
Because it's a cool glitch, and people will go "wtf" when they see it.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Baxter that this run no longer seems like such a great idea. If someone were to go through all the necessary work and complete this run, I would expect it to receive plenty of 'no' votes on the workbench despite the popularity of Zelda. An FDS run did seem like an interesting idea at one point in time, but that was before the submission of Phil & Baxter's run. Warp glitches are interesting when they allow you to skip major milestones in the game, lead to entirely different routes, and/or make the run significantly shorter. That isn't the case with this glitch. The only two route changes are buying the arrow elsewhere and taking a different path to level 6. On top of the basic limitations, there are also the issues of worse sound effects compared to the cartridge version, text written in Japanese, loading time, and long blackout screens. The extended blackout screens (which occur every time Link enters a dungeon, exits a dungeon, or uses the whistle) could even outweigh the shortcuts and make this run take longer than 24:04. I think the most requested other type of Zelda run has been an improved second quest. Second to this, from time to time there have been calls for a good swordless run. It might be better to focus efforts on those two for the time being, unless someone finds some more revolutionary glitches or shortcuts in the FDS version.
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Michael Fried wrote:
The way the glitch works is after beating level 5, first you throw the magical boomerang, and then you use the whistle. Then the boomerang knocks you out of the whirlwind, and you walk into the fake level 5, which takes you directly into the white sword cave. Is this what you timed? I haven't timed it myself, but I don't think this would take 21 seconds.
Ahh, I see. I watched zeldabugmovie.avi just now to refresh my memory on how this glitch works. In my timing experiment, I should not have included the time it takes to walk around the lake into the cave, since the room with the Lynel would never be seen. However, I should have added in the time it takes to switch to the boomerang, throw it, wait for the long black-out screen, and switch back to the flute at the end. At this point my impression is that the total sequence will take even more than 21 seconds, although I can't confirm this without actually playing it through on the FDS version. I finally understand the graveyard warp though. I had thought you were trying to warp west of level 6, but it makes sense to warp west or northwest of level 7.
Post subject: Re: The Legend of Zelda - FDS version
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Michael Fried wrote:
It's also possible to whistle to the magical sword cave after level 6, or you can just go there on the way to level 6 since it's not so far out of the way. If you skip the white sword, then the magical sword might be worth it since it's such a huge improvement over the wooden sword.
Obtaining the magical sword requires at least 12 heart containers, or is this different in the FDS version? edit: I took a look at your proposed route in more detail. Regarding the white sword idea, I did a timing test for blowing the whistle, walking into the cave, grabbing the sword, and saving. It comes out to at least 21 seconds, which is several seconds more than the time lost killing Patra and Gannon with the wooden sword. Thus, it seems unlikely that the white sword could be worth getting. If this involves blowing the whistle more than once, it is definitely not worthwhile. For the graveyard warp, on the USA version the whistle can only take you to dungeons that you've already beaten. Unless the glitch removes this restriction, is it even possible to warp to the graveyard (one screen left of level 6) at that point in the game?
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Yo jimsfriend, I'm a bit late here but I just wanted to say congrats on making such an awesome movie. As usual the Yoshi tricks were my favorite. Glad you could fly over entire levels just like in the SMW TAS, and then added the amazing springboard+Yoshi tricks for jumping or falling through solid blocks. Regarding what people have said about fish-making, here is a fun exercise I used to do on the console: Go to the end of Yoshi's Island 2 and see how many fish you can make next to the goalpost. (Having a ledge to stand on allows them to bounce at the bottom of the screen without the worry of stepping on them.) Then jump the goalpost. If you have enough enemies onscreen to get a 1-up, this attests to your skills as a fisherman. Yes, the fish will swim if they land in water. You can test this out as early as Yoshi's Island 4. However, it isn't possible to repopulate a whole water level because the fish do not reappear after being scrolled offscreen. In the run, I was hoping to see some fish created in Water Star World, but too bad that didn't happen. Back on the console it seemed near impossible to create fish while underwater mainly due to the way Mario and Yoshi float. jimsfriend (or Fabian, JXQ, mrz, greg, etc.), do you know if this is feasible?
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Rridgway wrote:
But, normally yes, it is automatically activated right?
When you play normally, the relevant bit is activated at some point late in the game. That's why it doesn't matter in the case of dokokashira door glitch, which plays rather abnormally by skipping that point along with most of the game.
My guess is that the items somehow turn off the programming that makes you walk over to the rival.
No, it is nothing so complex. The action is simply default-disabled.
Is this glitch any way at all similar to the walk throuh walls gameshark code?
Similar in the sense that the movie I showed requires a GameSharked item. Unless someone finds a way to spawn arbitrary types of items, this particular example is merely a cheat and not a viable glitch.
2. Get to pokemon league without 8 badges (?)
Unfortunately, walk-through-walls alone does not get you past the badge-checks.
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Fractal, thanks for looking into this. To partly address your needs, and owing to an idea by zefiris, I have created a new movie: pokemongreen_goomba_dokokashira.vbm This is an emulator-in-emulator movie. As was brought up in the 'Wonderboy in Monsterland' submission thread, using VBA gives us the advantage of well-written rerecording capabilities and our familiar memory-watching tools. This method cannot make a submission-eligible movie, but I do hope it can further help us understand what VBA is doing wrong. LagDotCom, thanks for all the research you've done on this so far. Here are instructions for creating the matching ROM: - Download Goomba v2.0 from http://www.webpersona.com/goomba/downloads.html (Note: Strangely, it's labeled as v1.8 when you open up the Goomba Front) - Use goomba.gba as the "emulator file" - Add only one game: Pocket Monsters Green v1.0 (J) with a filename of pokemongreen.gb - If the header says something other than "(32kb) POKEMON GREEN", right-click it and set it to POKEMON GREEN - Keep "splash screen?" unselected (default behavior) Even if the checksum doesn't match my movie file exactly, it might manage to sync anyway.
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Rridgway, here's a demo of what happens in the US version if we could somehow obtain one of the three walk-through-walls glitch items and shortcut to Lance's room: pokemonred_walkthroughwalls.vbm. Basically, this movie also demonstrates that the final rival fight is not activated by default.
Xkeeper wrote:
I'm actually fairly confident that each "room" in the game is seperate from all others, so you can't "go" to another room from where you are by walking through nothingness.
I guess the suggestion that we might "walk over to the Hall of Fame" has been misleading. A walk-through-walls glitch alone will not save as much time as a warping glitch. Nonetheless, it would enable significant sequence-breaks, such as entering Cinnabar gym without a key, entering Viridian gym early in the game, walking past the Elite Four (as demonstrated in the above movie), etc.
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Rridgway wrote:
But when you go to the rivals room, the conversation leading up to the fight is automaticaly initiated.
This clearly isn't always the case. Even though the Red/Green versions are somewhat different from Red/Blue, all versions have some enabler/disabler bit for the final rival fight.
Plus, the game isnt designed for self registration in the hall of fame. Most likely, nothing would happen.
As Chamale has pointed out, when you use cheats to teleport to the Hall of Fame, Prof. Oak does handle the registration process.
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Ahh the underground tunnel... it's been ages since I've "played" this game. There's still a problem with the proposed route though. Your rival is a vanishable object in Cerulean (0x20 bitmask at D5A6), so Snorlax won't disappear.
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Hey primo, that route you proposed involves biking through Saffron City, right? If so, it won't work because the guard in front of Copycat's house will disappear instead of Snorlax. I think it's safe to assume we won't find find a way to skip Pokemon Tower, at least with the currently known glitches. More glitches will be found in the future, but who knows... maybe they'll be like the dokokashira door glitch, and skip the entire game anyway. Assuming we'll still have to get the Poke Flute, will glitching the Snorlax west of Celadon be expected to save any time?
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Hey I edited my post above to show more complete tests. I've covered every Pokemon Center that can be reached with fly. Originally I thought we would have to test every possible trainer that can initiate an FCBM, but the last few tests confirm that only the teleport/fly destination matters. In fact it's only the initial destination (reached by teleport, fly, dig, or an escape rope) that has any effect. After that's done you can fly anywhere else before completing the sequence, but any side-trips won't change the outcome. edit: The Silph Co. test seems to show an exception to above rule. Maybe an FCBM from Victory Road will also show something unusual. The bitmask for the guard in front of the office building is 0x80 at D5A8, and the bitmask for the Snorlax west of Celadon is 0x02 at D5AA. edit: I read that the only Pokemon Centers outside of cities are Mt. Moon and Rock Tunnel. Yeah, skipping the guards on route 23 turned out to be hopeless even with the Missingno glitching. If you haven't yet watched pokemonyellow_missingno0x79_saffron.vbm from my earlier post, please do so you'll know what I'm talking about. It's very different from the mechanism used to remove Snorlax. When I forced an attempt using cheats at route 23, it turned out that the badge checks are triggered independent of where the guard is standing anyway. I found the end result somewhat amusing: pokemonyellow_missingno0x79_route23.vbm The guy in front of Viridian Gym can't be removed, but he's not what blocks the entrance to the gym. The "the door is locked" condition is unfortunately set by some other byte in a different region of memory. edit: Once I noticed that we have 0x02 on D5AA, I went ahead and did the trick to make the other Snorlax disappear! I'll post a vbm later. edit: Two demos: pokemonred_snorlax_west.vbm and pokemonred_antidote.vbm. The second one clearly isn't a very useful trick. The rules for how this glitch works are as follows: 1. The object that ends up disappearing is the last vanishable object encountered before the menu pops up at the end of the trainer-fly glitch. This can be a legendary pokemon (e.g. Snorlax), a character (e.g. guard in Saffron), or an item (e.g. antidote on Route 1). It may be encountered before trainer-fly is initiated, during the time the start button is disabled, or even after the start-button is reactivated. 2. A room has at most one vanishable object, and that object is "encountered" just by entering the room even if the object does not appear on-screen. If this one object has already been removed, in the end the glitch has no effect. On route 1, this one object is the antidote. In Saffron City, this is the guard blocking the way to Copycat. Thus, it does not seem possible to remove either of the other two guards in Saffron. 3. Many places such as Vermillion City have no vanishable objects. This is a good thing. 4. The glitch works on both Pokemon Red/Blue and Pokemon Yellow. These rules can explain all of the earlier tests including obscure ones such as Mt. Moon and Silph Co. Recording every FCBM trainer and the fly/teleport target was a bit misleading. In some cases, even the fly/teleport location did not matter as I was walking past other vanishable objects before completing the glitch. edit: Finally figured out and made a demo of a viable method for walking through guards: pokemonyellow_missingno0x7f_works.vbm. However, it's very elaborate and restricted, with the following caveats: - It requires a poke ball and a poke doll, and can only be done on Pokemon Yellow. - Throughout the glitchy sequence, you cannot use fly, teleport, or even the bicycle. - To initiate the sequence, I have hand-waived the part of how to find a pokemon with a special of 121 or 127 in the local area. In theory, a double trainer-fly with Ditto in the middle might work. - Add up all the time lost due to the above problems, and it may be faster to play through Pokemon Tower.
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Chamale, the goal isn't to catch Missingno, but instead to use Missingno to glitch up the game and walk through guards. Sorry for the confusion. It looks my idea doesn't work anyway due to those limitations I mentioned. I've moved on to looking at the more promising glitch from last month. The Snorlax byte is at D5A9, so I monitored this address. In samthedigital's movie, this value is modified around the moment of pressing B to cancel the menu after loading the game. If I opt not to save, the value changes the moment the battle with Chansey is done. As has been pointed out, it is not necessary to save the game. I've tested a few of the other glitching options that primo mentioned. Below I've listed out the various effects I found. Each option described with the following five-entry format: trainer who initiates trainer-fly, city flown/teleported to, memory address, value change, effective bitmask (calculated from value change), known effect 1. Youngster on Route 11, Vermillion City, D5A9, 01->21, 0x20, Snorlax disappears 2. Rocket on Mt. Moon, Mt. Moon entrance, D5B3, 00->08, TM12 disappears (corrected) 3. Gambler on Route 8, Cerulean City, D5AA, 16->56, 0x40, ? 4. Bug Catcher on Route 1 (Pokemon Yellow), Pewter City, none 5. Jr Trainer on Route 24, ?, none 6. Rocket on Silph Co. 9th floor, Cerulean City, D5BC, 00->10, 0x10, ? 7. Biker on Route 16, Saffron City, D5AA, 1E->3E, 0x20, ? 8. Gambler on Route 8 (Pokemon Yellow), Cerulean City, D5A9, 3C->BC, 0x80, ? 9. Youngster on Route 11 (Pokemon Yelllow), Saffron City, none 10. Youngster on Route 11 (Pokemon Yelllow), Vermillion City, D5A8, 03->43, 0x40, Snorlax disappears 11. Youngster on Route 11, Saffron City, D5A7, 02->06, 0x04, ? 12. Youngster on Route 11, Pallet Town, D5A6, 73->7B, 0x08, ? 13. Youngster on Route 11, Fuchsia City, D5A9, 01->21, 0x20, Snorlax disappears (identical to the Vermillion route) 14. Youngster on Route 11, Viridian City, D5A6, 73->7B, 0x08, ? (identical to the Pallet route) 15. Youngster on Route 11, Indigo Plateau, D5B1, 00->08, 0x08, ? (cheat) 16. Youngster on Route 11, Cinnabar Island, D5AF, 10->11, 0x01, ? (cheat) 17. Youngster on Route 11, Celadon City, D5AA, 1C->1E, 0x02, ? (cheat) 18. Youngster on Route 11, Lavender Town, D5A9, 01->21, 0x20, ? (identical to the Vermillion route) 19. Youngster on Route 11, Cerulean City, D5AA, 1C->5C, 0x40, ? 20. Gambler on Route 8, Indigo Plateau, D5B1, 00->08, 0x08, ? (cheat) 21. Gambler on Route 8, Rock Tunnel, D5A9, 01->11, 0x10, ? All values (except route numbers) are in hex. The effective bitmask is just the end value minus the start value. It should always set exactly 1 bit. The entries labeled (cheat) mean that I used the walk-through-walls code in order to find a trainer to fix my start button. It was necessary at Indigo Plateau, while for Cinnabar and Celadon it wouldn't have been necessary had I been further along in the game. Here's what I do for each test: Initiate and complete a trainer-fly glitch. Finish it off while watching addresses D5A6 through D5C3 in the memory viewer. This is where the game stores records of items appearing and disappearing. For the Bug Catcher and Jr Trainer, I didn't see any bytes changed. I have a few theories for why this happens, but before jumping to conclusions we should test the other spots in Pokemon Yellow. The TM12 item occurs in the cave level just before the level with the Rocket. Just as Snorlax is on Route 12 while the Youngster is on Route 11, this agrees with what samthedigital about adjacent rooms. I did all the above tests using savestates from primo's and FractalFusion's movies. If any of you already happen to have movies or savestates that go through some of the other trainer-fly (FCBM) opportunities, that would be really helpful. Edit: Added Silph Co., Biker, additional Pokemon Yellow tests, and additional Youngster tests. Edit: Realized that the memory address written to (and whether or not any address is written to) is decided (at least in part) by the location flown/teleported to. I observed this when Snorlax failed to disappear if I flew to Saffron instead of Vermillion. I've updated the listings to include this location info. Edit: The bitmask 0x10 on A7D5 is what it takes to remove the guard from in front of the Saffron gym. Entry #11 suggests we are finding the key to unlocking this shortcut... Edit: Completed tests for every fly-to location. Our next task will be the remaining Pokemon Centers.
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If just for the purpose of shooting other racers around, this is an entertainment tradeoff. I found the map view very helpful and entertaining in the one-player WIPs, and I wouldn't want to exchange it for some playaround on the lower screen. On the other hand, if you can use player 2 as an obstacle to initiate longboosts or manipulate other racers to serve as such obstacles, this could lead to even better TAS records than possible in one-player mode. (And as FODA pointed out, the second player should press start and give up as soon as player 1 crosses the finish line.) I think route planning and testing would have to be entirely redone for this strategy. To me it sounds like an interesting project, but for time being it seems like developing the one-player TAS is hard enough.
Huffers wrote:
(L+R 7th place trick)I was unsure wether I should use it or not in my SMK run (...) reading the replies, I'm still unsure :-/
I definitely think you should not, except in a complete two-player TAS.
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Nope, but I figured out another way. Simply use 'fly' (instead of pressing B or saving) when the menu pops up at the end of the trainer-fly glitch. Then you can fly to Saffron city and battle Missingno upon arrival. Now the problem I'm having is that this Missingno always ends up freezing the game instead of ensuing in a glitch battle. I have tried various Missingnos, but as far as I can tell, using fly or teleport will indirectly lead to the game freezing at the start of the battle. I recall back when using a GameShark with Pokemon Yellow on real hardware, it was also hard to determine the factors that distinguish Missingno to freeze, crash, or just glitch up the game. I didn't have time try all the possible glitch pokemon, and I didn't do any testing on red/blue. Maybe someone else might have better luck with this.
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Oh, I think this Missingno-based corruption isn't directly tied to the FCBM-based glitch for avoiding Snorlax. This is just a way of getting through a guard without making him disappear (then in theory, you could use Dig to get out after beating Sabrina). For that guard per se, if you can instead use the same trick used to make Snorlax disappear, all the better since that's faster slightly than summoning a Missingno. I did a bit more testing and found that moving guards and other sprites doesn't remain effective outside of the room where Missingno was fought. Unfortunately this rules out a lot of possibilities, including Saffron city and the badge check place before Victory Road. =(
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Hi guys. After playing around with the dokokashira glitch recently, I was motivated to try some more things out. I'm convinced that there is probably some way to quickly glitch through to the end of even the (U) versions of these games. Take a look at these two movies: pokemonyellow_missingno0x79_bugcatching.vbm pokemonyellow_missingno0x79_saffron.vbm The first movie pulls Jessie out of nowhere and finishes with an endless merry-go-round, but I thought it was kind of funny... The second shows how you could enter Sabrina's gym while the guard is blocking it. Because I'm lazy, both of these movies were initiated with the GameShark codes 017958D0, 010726D1 in order to bring up a level 7 Missingno 0x79. With a bit more coordination and planning, maybe it could be done legit starting with the trainer-fly glitch. With these sorts of glitch modes I think you can probably skip other major parts of the game, maybe even the guards on Victory Road. However, it still isn't a true warping technique (like dokokashira). edit: I got around to reading some other parts of this thread just now. Apparently the hope of getting through this guard has been brought up before!
Mr. Pwnage wrote:
I don't think Pokemon Tower can be skipped, because the guard at Silph blocks the way until you get through that (unless you can do something to make him disappear just as Snorlax does, or better yet do the same for the Saffron Gym guard).
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I got around to testing this glitch today... good thing LagDotCom was around on IRC to explain everything to me. Here is a link to my Pocket Monsters Green recording done under KiGB: Pocket Monsters - Green Version (J) (V1.0) - dokokashira.inp. Of course, the original vid and LagDotCom's AVI recording under BGB are also legit, but I figure some people might prefer an input recording for complete proof of the glitch. So I've finally come to understand that the main reason we don't yet have a TAS using this trick is VBA's improper emulation. The trick has been shown to work on TGB Dual, BGB, KiGB, possibly some other emulators, and the real hardware. To come to understand and use this trick in a TAS, I see only two possibilities: (1) Fix this emulation bug in VBA. (2) Implement rerecording in some emulator that is more faithful to the hardware, such as BGB. I'd say (2) seems pretty impractical as most of the good GameBoy emulators are not open source. (1) could be done by someone who is up for the challenge, but seems pretty hard to me. It would require not only stepping through the disassembly in an emulator where the glitch works, but also comparing that to what's going on in VBA. The key discrepancy might not occur at the time of teleportation, but rather much further back. Maybe someone else has some better ideas. Regarding the importance of this bug, I don't think this sort of warping is necessarily limited to Pocket Monsters - Green Version (J) (V1.0) and Pocket Monsters - Red Version (J) (V1.0). Indeed, in these videos the route is initiated by using some glitch with the select button on items to cause corrupted data, and the select bug was apparently fixed in subsequent games including all the (U) ones. However, the warping itself is caused by the corrupted data. This same sort of corruption (your first pokemon turning into a Charizard, getting an overflowed life bar after leveling up) can be obtained using other known methods (for example, capturing various glitched pokemon on the Cinnabar coast or using trainer-fly). That's my take on things. Hopefully I've offered some insight that hasn't already been said here.
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Maybe we should merge the other thread?
Telefang Power & Speed: A run of one of these games would probably serve best as a walkthrough for those who have no actual interest in playing the game but might want to see what it's about. On the other hand, the majority of viewers would probably be turned off by a game that is as long & slow as Pokemon, not very well-known, and entirely in Japanese.
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Rridgway wrote:
It was a question whether if theoretically a run existed of pokemon jade. If such a run existed, would you watch it?
The GBC hacks known as 'Pokemon Diamond' and 'Pokemon Jade' are just translations of Telefang Power & Speed. A run of one of these games would probably serve best as a walkthrough for those who have no actual interest in playing the game but might want to see what it's about. On the other hand, the majority of viewers would probably be turned off by a game that is as long & slow as Pokemon, not very well-known, and entirely in Japanese.
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Great run, but what happened to skipping the miniboss in Crystal Snail stage, as was demonstrated in the Rockman X2 thread?
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I'd be interested in seeing a speedwalk of the fortress, but please do finish the main run first! Yeah, using a password would be cleaner than what Zurreco suggested. Maybe confusion arose because you called it a "hacked" passcode. Since this is something you could do on a console, that's probably not the right word for it.
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This happened to me frequently when I played around on Mega Man X (V1.0) or Rockman X (V1.0). At the time I supposed it was due to the encryption on version 1.0, but it's hard to substantiate this theory without any documentation on the encryption scheme. I had the same effects on both Snes9x and ZSNES. It was quite repeatable, in fact so annoying that I could not progress far into the game for testing purposes. I'll go ahead and post an (edit) smv, unless you get to that first, Brookman.
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Wow that was good. Long back I was saying a TAS of this game would be too repetitive and have little to offer beyond Fultz's combo movie. Well, I was wrong. Turbo mode allows this movie to be much more fast-paced, and it's under 9 minutes. If the 80-hit combos really cannot be done against CPU Orchid, then it was probably the right choice to omit that (or any 2-player stuff). Voting yes.
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Have you tested this idea with a level editor? In some games (e.g. Rockman2) you can warp between levels but it isn't helpful because the important variables unfortunately still point to the original level.
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