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Thanks :)
Yeah I tried it. I couldn't make much use out of the speed shoes on the bottom path because of all the hazards and backtracking from there is much slower. Especially since the speed shoes ran out before I started going back. Plus getting back up top using the platform costs 4-5 seconds, and then I'd lose even more time on the top path due to the absence of speed shoes.
I just decided this was overall better despite having to wait for those platforms.
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I felt like doing some more Sonic 1 so here's Marble 2. It was slightly more difficult than Act 1 but still relatively simple to make.
gmvLink to video
I should note that the rerecords for this level and (possibly special stage 2 v2) are missing. The gmv got corrupted after I was done with MZ2 so I had to load one of the savestates in a previous version of the gmv to recover the inputs.
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Here's SP2. Everything after the last slide took me a while to optimize because I was barely able to beat the last moving object. LR1 only desynced to a missing lag frame. We are finally back to where we left off. I'd suggest layering sprites on top for the encode.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/433840190/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv
Now that we're finally back to where we left off I can't wait to see what your LRZ2 looks like. I remember having a lot of fun with this one.
@JXQ here are some additional comments to add onto what Evil said.
AI2
I'll probably edit an AI2 map later to show which rings we didn't get in Knuckles area and the ones that required Tails to clip into the death boundary.
HC2
1:20- It was for entertainment, but funny enough it did end up saving a frame because the hand couldn't pull Sonic to the ground when it released.
2:05- Yeah it was slower. That was the earliest I could get Tails to spawn, and it took him too long to land and get out of his hitstun animation.
IC1
2:10- There is one more detail you should know. If you kill Knuckles' boss first Sonic's boss will get deloaded.
LB2
4:05- I did find a route that allows us to do this. Problem is the game doesn't let Sonic transition to Mushroom Hill from Knuckles boss.
MH1
Yeah I'd prefer to leave out that glitch in this category for reasons Evil mentioned (Tails how could you?).
I'd love to see an atlas encode of this run. I'd be awesome to see both Sonic and Tails' movement from a larger screen.
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Yeah a few spots took me a while to fully optimize. If anything it was more time consuming than challenging. I still found this level to be fun to tas though.
Plus I had to really optimize SPZ2 (and the end of Act 1) to make it past the moving object at 0:57 in Act 2.
I'm sorry to hear that but I'm glad you're better now. For the future if you do want someone to talk with about your problems I'm more than willing to help you in any way I can. Just send me a pm.
I really wanna finish this too. We should be able to finish it june or early july depending on how things go.
SPZ2 shouldn't take me too much longer. I've gotten most of the level done. I could use your help with one thing though. Can you see if you can get me to clip through the moving object at 1:52 any sooner? I've been at it for a while now and this is the fastest I could do it.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/732705058/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv
At the moment I can't think of anything you can cover but maybe Evil will have better insight on this.
Here's Evil's playlist containing all the WIP videos. I personally think it'll be easier for you to just watch the gmv above and the video for LRZ1.
Also thanks for reminding me about the submission text. I don't have much of it atm. I did start with AIZ2 and then just kinda stopped. That stuff might be outated anyways because it was for v3. Speaking of AIZ2 I think I'll do that one last.
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Yeah I'm really happy with the new LB2 too. It has a lot of new neat trucks.
That delay was done to allow Tails to go through the last moving pillar. Since Sonic had to wait for it to move out of the way anyways it didn't cost any time. Instead I saved 53 frames by using Tails to make Sonic fall faster like you saw there.
Act 2 is mostly a bunch of small (and mostly noticeable) improvements that allowed me to beat the moving object at 0:55. What I did differently with the light switch trick was grab all the rings in the loop with Sonic. Thankfully it was pretty easy to replicate from my testrun.
Just for clarification I will tell you that Sandopolis in this run is being done as fast as possible, even in real time. We didn't need to do any cycle manipulation.
@Evil_3D, I noticed one very minor error with your inputs regarding Tails' flight. When you want to make him fly as high as possible from a jump you should hold A until it no longer effects his upwards speed and then on the very next frame press B. Don't leave any "blank" frames in between.
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Here's LBZ2 with 4:19:27. I found a lot of cool improvements in this one.
gmv
Sorry for the delay. Progress on LBZ2 has been a little slow due to irl stuff and I somehow ended up forgetting to upload the gmv here when I finished it about a week ago. Whoops :p
On a brighter note I've resync'd the run without any major problems. I only had desyncs in MHZ2 due to lag differences.
I've also decided to redo SOZ2 (and the minute of Act 1) because I really wanted to fix the light switch trick while also beating the objects cycles we couldn't get beat before. I have succeeded at doing that so it's just a matter of finishing the level now.
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Well I removed the special stage in GHZ1 and improved special stage 2 by 619 frames. I'm glad I don't have to do special stage 3 until after SYZ2
Link to video
I do not wanna have to rearrange the special stages again. Apparently the movement of the batbrains MZ is random and I don't really know how to manipulate. Thankfully extending one of the animal manipulation pauses in GHZ3 by a frame (I would've lost several more otherwise) got MZ1 to sync again.
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It's hard to compare our inputs just by looking at our runs. Our optimization levels appear to be nearly identical.
I'm not that surprised I got great so quickly. I was already pretty decent when I first started and I didn't too much trouble with keeping track of 2 players (well, at least when I learned track recording was a thing :p). Most of what I improved on was my knowledge of optimization and the game in general.
Yeah I did misinterpret what he said. I didn't realize he was talking about old any% runs instead of "glitchless". I know they were lacking the tools we have now and were basically just trying to learn about the game.
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Wow I always thought I was lazier than you. I also hate redoing levels but for me that's only really a problem if it feels like I'm not making pregress and/or get plain sick of tasing it.
Also yes I am Kaan666 destroyer of worlds. Fear me mortal!
Yeah I didn't think the optimization in this tas could get so tight due to its dynamic nature. Those time improvements were surprising to me too.
Personally the balance I like is optimizing the levels as much as possible and making sure it doesn't look noticeably sloppy.
Seriously? Screen wrap in a glitchless run? I know some of the exploits in this game can't truly be classified as glitches but that's ridiculous. I'm pretty sure stuff like that isn't expected nor wanted in a glitchless category. That's why I'm very satisfied with Evil's choice of restrictions.
That's Awesome! We no longer have to suffer through like 2 minutes of invincibility music. Your inputs are also looking very clean.
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Am I really that good? I mean I never thought I'd be able to surpass your skills. Thanks man :D
Yeah let's divide the work and fix the music in LBZ1. How about you do Act 1 and I do Act 2? ICZ2 did in fact wear me out and I need a break before I can continue. I am willing to help you if you didn't succeed at fixing the music though.
Also if you remember my testrun for LBZ2 was my very first tas. I wanna be the one to redo it to really gauge how much I've improved since I started.
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Here's ICZ2, now with music. The new route ended up being faster even with the improvements improvements. This was actually kind of a challenging level for me to tas.
I calculated the time as if the timer never froze from killing the miniboss. We got 2:57::26 (give or take a frame). I believe the old time was around 3:27. I did not expect to improve this level by that much.
gmv
Now to fix the music on LBZ1. Do you wanna do that or should I?
Well from what I can tell the only thing that's keeping us from succeeding at this is not being able to level wrap from a high enough position.
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Oh no yeah I knew you were talking about the right loop when I figured out what was really going on with the pathswapper. I meant to delete that statement when I edited the comment since it was no longer relavent.
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I'll definitely get less than a minute. The new route pretty much requires me to make a beeline for the miniboss. I wanna overcharge the scoreboard too. I wonder what score we'll end up with when we're done.
I think I figured out what your loop problem was. Tails can't get the 5 rings in the loop above the big ring because the loop is solid. I guess you were thinking of the wrong loop. I should still be able to improve this part though.
upd: Found the pathswapper. Apparently you have to be on the ground for it to work which is kinda dumb. That must've been the issue you were having.
upd2: Problem solved. I was able to split Sonic and Tails into the upper and lower areas without screwing up loop solidity.
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Oh lol only a minute off.
I tested the loop from the movie. I never had the solidity problem from playing casually either. I guess you did something weird to make that loop solid.
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I fixed the MGZ capsule and added the rest of the inputs. Just like always CNZ and ICZ successfully resync'd. At this point I don't think those 2 zones can desync. I'm not complaining.
I redid the last 30ish seconds of ICZ1 (everything after frame 117400) because the sloppiness there was very noticeable in real time. I improved it by 4 seconds.
gmv
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Interesting. I've never seen that happen before. I even tested it just now ago and the loop didn't block my path. It might've been a weird pathswapper interaction with Tails. I'll have to see what happens in the run.
Also I think we may be able to fix the music in LBZ1 just by saving time. You know that area below the 2nd big ring. I think it's totally unnecessary for Sonic to go down there because Tails could very easily collect those 7 rings by himself. Plus I spotted other mimor improvements in that area.
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We don't really have to master the ring attack. If you really want to fix some more of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ), what we could do is redo them once just to clean them up and then be done with them for good. I'm fine with leaving any imperfections we may notice later on.
I am gonna for sure redo ICZ2 though because it does feel kinda empty for me as well. Here's the new route I came up with. I'd have to test it in the run to know for sure if it's good or not, but it does have potential to be faster than the current route, and it does allow us to get the music back pretty early on.
ICZ2 route
And yeah let's try to fix LBZ1 one more time. At least the music problem here isn't as bad as ICZ2 since this one can be remedied with the Sonic hud.
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Don't feel bad. Simply requesting for us to make the S+T glitchless tas is okay as long as you aren't forcing us to do it. We will get around to it eventually. It's just that we've been at this ring attack for about a year now and making 2 player runs do indeed take quite a bit more effort than 1 player runs. Both of us will need a break from making them by the time we're done with this ring attack. This certainly won't be the last 2 player run we'll make though.
I've looked through some of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ) to see if I can spot any major improvements. They look more than okay to me. It's almost as if Evil's skill level suddenly shot up when he started tasing MGZ.
I am however planning on redoing ICZ2. I wanna attempt to get the music back for the 2nd half of the level using the invincibility monitor without losing any time and I think I found a good route that'll allow me to do just that. Plus I spotted a few potential improvements.
Also here's some info that might be helpful for you in the future. You see that Tails respawn delay timer? You can cancel out of it at any time by pressing A, B or C. That's how I've been able to manipulate some of Tails' respawn positions in my recent tases.
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Understandable. We've been at this for quite a while now and I'm getting a little tired of making 2 players tases myself. At least there isn't much left.
I'm okay with those conditions. I was just saying you should also avoid weird interactions like floating in midair during the LBZ1 Knuckles cutscene to avoid controversy.
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Nice job on the glitchless run. Are you planning on make a full run out of this?
I wouldn't suggest jumping out of the teacup early during the Knuckles cutscene because it makes you float in midair in an unnatural manner.
Also I should warn you that resyncing the ring attack will take me quite a bit longer than it did last time. I kinda have a busy week ahead me and I may not have a good opportunity to work on it until the weekend.