Posts for kaan55


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Evil_3D wrote:
For my eyes looks more faster if you take the lower path with the speed shoes first and backtrack because you lost 9 seconds in the platforms, you tried that? The rest of the levels looks amazing.
Thanks :) Yeah I tried it. I couldn't make much use out of the speed shoes on the bottom path because of all the hazards and backtracking from there is much slower. Especially since the speed shoes ran out before I started going back. Plus getting back up top using the platform costs 4-5 seconds, and then I'd lose even more time on the top path due to the absence of speed shoes. I just decided this was overall better despite having to wait for those platforms.
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Here's Spring Yard 1. I had to do some precise positioning in some areas but it was still overall simplistic and actually a bit shorter than I expected. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/640014493/Sonic%201%20Ring%20Attack.gmv Link to video
Banned User, Published Author, Active player (427)
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Banned User, Published Author, Active player (427)
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It may be a faster route for Act 2 but you'd likely have to sacrifice more time than it saves in Act 1 to get the wheel glitch. Nice find though.
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I felt like doing some more Sonic 1 so here's Marble 2. It was slightly more difficult than Act 1 but still relatively simple to make. gmv Link to video I should note that the rerecords for this level and (possibly special stage 2 v2) are missing. The gmv got corrupted after I was done with MZ2 so I had to load one of the savestates in a previous version of the gmv to recover the inputs.
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Here's SP2. Everything after the last slide took me a while to optimize because I was barely able to beat the last moving object. LR1 only desynced to a missing lag frame. We are finally back to where we left off. I'd suggest layering sprites on top for the encode. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/433840190/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv Now that we're finally back to where we left off I can't wait to see what your LRZ2 looks like. I remember having a lot of fun with this one. @JXQ here are some additional comments to add onto what Evil said. AI2 I'll probably edit an AI2 map later to show which rings we didn't get in Knuckles area and the ones that required Tails to clip into the death boundary. HC2 1:20- It was for entertainment, but funny enough it did end up saving a frame because the hand couldn't pull Sonic to the ground when it released. 2:05- Yeah it was slower. That was the earliest I could get Tails to spawn, and it took him too long to land and get out of his hitstun animation. IC1 2:10- There is one more detail you should know. If you kill Knuckles' boss first Sonic's boss will get deloaded. LB2 4:05- I did find a route that allows us to do this. Problem is the game doesn't let Sonic transition to Mushroom Hill from Knuckles boss. MH1 Yeah I'd prefer to leave out that glitch in this category for reasons Evil mentioned (Tails how could you?). I'd love to see an atlas encode of this run. I'd be awesome to see both Sonic and Tails' movement from a larger screen.
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Evil_3D wrote:
Wow, almost 70k rerecords in this level, that's was be a pretty tough challenge huh? I love all of it.
Yeah a few spots took me a while to fully optimize. If anything it was more time consuming than challenging. I still found this level to be fun to tas though. Plus I had to really optimize SPZ2 (and the end of Act 1) to make it past the moving object at 0:57 in Act 2.
Evil_3D wrote:
I was inactive this month too due for irl problems and dealing with depression, but I'm fine now.
I'm sorry to hear that but I'm glad you're better now. For the future if you do want someone to talk with about your problems I'm more than willing to help you in any way I can. Just send me a pm.
Evil_3D wrote:
I hope you finish SPZ soon, I really want to finish this big boy.
I really wanna finish this too. We should be able to finish it june or early july depending on how things go. SPZ2 shouldn't take me too much longer. I've gotten most of the level done. I could use your help with one thing though. Can you see if you can get me to clip through the moving object at 1:52 any sooner? I've been at it for a while now and this is the fastest I could do it. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/732705058/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv
TheYogWog wrote:
As the end of the game draws slowly but surely near, is there anything either of you know of at this point that you'd like me to cover as a topic in the future submission text? Also is there a YT video or playlist of the full movie?
At the moment I can't think of anything you can cover but maybe Evil will have better insight on this. Here's Evil's playlist containing all the WIP videos. I personally think it'll be easier for you to just watch the gmv above and the video for LRZ1. Also thanks for reminding me about the submission text. I don't have much of it atm. I did start with AIZ2 and then just kinda stopped. That stuff might be outated anyways because it was for v3. Speaking of AIZ2 I think I'll do that one last.
Post subject: Re: <-- Is geeked
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JXQ wrote:
It all looks so smooth! LB2 looks fantastic and I'm happy you were able to avoid going into the bonus area and Tails' drowning death, funny as it was :)
Yeah I'm really happy with the new LB2 too. It has a lot of new neat trucks.
JXQ wrote:
Is the extra delay near the end of SO1 (just before you get the last big ring) in order to change the global timer for SO2 for the spiked pillar moving up and down at 0:57? I could not tell what you did differently in SO2 (except that you didn't spend as long in the walls around the 0:55 mark).
That delay was done to allow Tails to go through the last moving pillar. Since Sonic had to wait for it to move out of the way anyways it didn't cost any time. Instead I saved 53 frames by using Tails to make Sonic fall faster like you saw there. Act 2 is mostly a bunch of small (and mostly noticeable) improvements that allowed me to beat the moving object at 0:55. What I did differently with the light switch trick was grab all the rings in the loop with Sonic. Thankfully it was pretty easy to replicate from my testrun. Just for clarification I will tell you that Sandopolis in this run is being done as fast as possible, even in real time. We didn't need to do any cycle manipulation. @Evil_3D, I noticed one very minor error with your inputs regarding Tails' flight. When you want to make him fly as high as possible from a jump you should hold A until it no longer effects his upwards speed and then on the very next frame press B. Don't leave any "blank" frames in between.
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Here's LBZ2 with 4:19:27. I found a lot of cool improvements in this one. gmv Sorry for the delay. Progress on LBZ2 has been a little slow due to irl stuff and I somehow ended up forgetting to upload the gmv here when I finished it about a week ago. Whoops :p On a brighter note I've resync'd the run without any major problems. I only had desyncs in MHZ2 due to lag differences. I've also decided to redo SOZ2 (and the minute of Act 1) because I really wanted to fix the light switch trick while also beating the objects cycles we couldn't get beat before. I have succeeded at doing that so it's just a matter of finishing the level now.
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Wanna fill me in on why this was cancelled?
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Well I removed the special stage in GHZ1 and improved special stage 2 by 619 frames. I'm glad I don't have to do special stage 3 until after SYZ2 Link to video I do not wanna have to rearrange the special stages again. Apparently the movement of the batbrains MZ is random and I don't really know how to manipulate. Thankfully extending one of the animal manipulation pauses in GHZ3 by a frame (I would've lost several more otherwise) got MZ1 to sync again.
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Paused wrote:
Yeah, I have no where near the knowledge to compare you two, but you've gotten pretty great pretty quickly mate. Controlling two player like that even under TAS conditions is baffling to me, yet you make it look like you just play co-op game solo all the time.
It's hard to compare our inputs just by looking at our runs. Our optimization levels appear to be nearly identical. I'm not that surprised I got great so quickly. I was already pretty decent when I first started and I didn't too much trouble with keeping track of 2 players (well, at least when I learned track recording was a thing :p). Most of what I improved on was my knowledge of optimization and the game in general.
Paused wrote:
I believe you slightly miss understand. Sprintgods 1st (and the sites 1st) S3K 'glitchless' TAS was actually just an any% at the time. There were no glitches in it, not because he chose not to do so, but as none were know at the time. His next run that obsoleted it did have glitches in it, but it wasn't considered a separate category as the 'glitchless' category wasn't really a thing back then. They were both just considered any% runs. Remember, this was way back when he played at 6% play speed to be precise rather than frame advance.
Yeah I did misinterpret what he said. I didn't realize he was talking about old any% runs instead of "glitchless". I know they were lacking the tools we have now and were basically just trying to learn about the game.
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Evil_3D wrote:
Yes, you improved a lot this year, you are less lazy than me and you have a faster pace, I hate to redo levels (mostly in the ring attack), trying to synchronize and even open gens at times :-P - But I take my time to optimize my levels
Wow I always thought I was lazier than you. I also hate redoing levels but for me that's only really a problem if it feels like I'm not making pregress and/or get plain sick of tasing it. Also yes I am Kaan666 destroyer of worlds. Fear me mortal!
JXQ wrote:
I'm loving this ring attack. I am consistently surprised at the amount of time saved with each new iteration. Seeing you find improvements of 30 seconds in HC2 and IC2 is really surprising. I know it's a very tough balance between optimizing as much as possible, and knowing when to move on to the next level in order to ever make long-term progress, but it seems like just about every level is being tightened up quite a bit by this point. It's impressive!
Yeah I didn't think the optimization in this tas could get so tight due to its dynamic nature. Those time improvements were surprising to me too. Personally the balance I like is optimizing the levels as much as possible and making sure it doesn't look noticeably sloppy.
boct1584 wrote:
Loving that glitchless! I always felt like SprintGod's first run should never have been obsoleted, cause the second one abused vertical screen wrapping, and then nitsuja came along and straight-up murdered the game.
Seriously? Screen wrap in a glitchless run? I know some of the exploits in this game can't truly be classified as glitches but that's ridiculous. I'm pretty sure stuff like that isn't expected nor wanted in a glitchless category. That's why I'm very satisfied with Evil's choice of restrictions.
Evil_3D wrote:
I'm glad to announce that we fixed LBZ 1 music, only need to finish the level now.
That's Awesome! We no longer have to suffer through like 2 minutes of invincibility music. Your inputs are also looking very clean.
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Am I really that good? I mean I never thought I'd be able to surpass your skills. Thanks man :D
Evil_3D wrote:
About LBZ, you can fix the music if you want, we can divide the work and do 50% of the levels everyone too, if you are tired.
Yeah let's divide the work and fix the music in LBZ1. How about you do Act 1 and I do Act 2? ICZ2 did in fact wear me out and I need a break before I can continue. I am willing to help you if you didn't succeed at fixing the music though. Also if you remember my testrun for LBZ2 was my very first tas. I wanna be the one to redo it to really gauge how much I've improved since I started.
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Here's ICZ2, now with music. The new route ended up being faster even with the improvements improvements. This was actually kind of a challenging level for me to tas. I calculated the time as if the timer never froze from killing the miniboss. We got 2:57::26 (give or take a frame). I believe the old time was around 3:27. I did not expect to improve this level by that much. gmv Now to fix the music on LBZ1. Do you wanna do that or should I?
WST wrote:
I remember doing a successful level-wrap in some other way, can’t tell you exactly. The problem is that level-wrap is absolutely useless for Knuckles in this level, because you’ll not be able to take proper Y position quickly enough. Don’t waste your time, you’ll not be able to beat the level sucessfully if you succeed at level-wrap. :)
Well from what I can tell the only thing that's keeping us from succeeding at this is not being able to level wrap from a high enough position.
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Evil_3D wrote:
Trust me, I was talking about this loop.
Oh no yeah I knew you were talking about the right loop when I figured out what was really going on with the pathswapper. I meant to delete that statement when I edited the comment since it was no longer relavent.
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I'll definitely get less than a minute. The new route pretty much requires me to make a beeline for the miniboss. I wanna overcharge the scoreboard too. I wonder what score we'll end up with when we're done. I think I figured out what your loop problem was. Tails can't get the 5 rings in the loop above the big ring because the loop is solid. I guess you were thinking of the wrong loop. I should still be able to improve this part though. upd: Found the pathswapper. Apparently you have to be on the ground for it to work which is kinda dumb. That must've been the issue you were having. upd2: Problem solved. I was able to split Sonic and Tails into the upper and lower areas without screwing up loop solidity.
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Evil_3D wrote:
But don't kill Tails at the end because you will can't controll him in the next level and it will not respawn either
Don't worry I realized that immediately when I started Act 2. It's fixed now.
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Oh lol only a minute off. I tested the loop from the movie. I never had the solidity problem from playing casually either. I guess you did something weird to make that loop solid.
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I fixed the MGZ capsule and added the rest of the inputs. Just like always CNZ and ICZ successfully resync'd. At this point I don't think those 2 zones can desync. I'm not complaining. I redid the last 30ish seconds of ICZ1 (everything after frame 117400) because the sloppiness there was very noticeable in real time. I improved it by 4 seconds. gmv
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Evil_3D wrote:
The route looks fine, but I need warn you with the begining, If Sonic got underwater directly to the giant ring you will be stuck in the next loops where the ice wall blocks Knuckles area because the loop above the giant ring changes the path switchers to change the solidity in the next loops. I had this problem in the early days doing ICZ2
Interesting. I've never seen that happen before. I even tested it just now ago and the loop didn't block my path. It might've been a weird pathswapper interaction with Tails. I'll have to see what happens in the run. Also I think we may be able to fix the music in LBZ1 just by saving time. You know that area below the 2nd big ring. I think it's totally unnecessary for Sonic to go down there because Tails could very easily collect those 7 rings by himself. Plus I spotted other mimor improvements in that area.
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We don't really have to master the ring attack. If you really want to fix some more of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ), what we could do is redo them once just to clean them up and then be done with them for good. I'm fine with leaving any imperfections we may notice later on. I am gonna for sure redo ICZ2 though because it does feel kinda empty for me as well. Here's the new route I came up with. I'd have to test it in the run to know for sure if it's good or not, but it does have potential to be faster than the current route, and it does allow us to get the music back pretty early on. ICZ2 route And yeah let's try to fix LBZ1 one more time. At least the music problem here isn't as bad as ICZ2 since this one can be remedied with the Sonic hud.
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Paused wrote:
I feel like a selfish asshole even going in to this... But whatever. Sonic 3 glitchless as Sonic+Tails has been my dream from this site ever since I discovered it through sprint gods TAS's back in the day. I understand that requesting such a thing is quite a feat But both you and Kann have done ring attacks! And seemingly mastered the 2play controls! That shits crazy! I just feel like you're the people that are the dream I hoped to make the video we all want to see... To be succinct, I feel like a single player sonic TAS glichless is essentially a TAS that will give blue balls. But Im not a complete idiot; Im sure 2 player tas'ing is a pain in the ass; I get it I wish you luck in what ever direction you go in.
Don't feel bad. Simply requesting for us to make the S+T glitchless tas is okay as long as you aren't forcing us to do it. We will get around to it eventually. It's just that we've been at this ring attack for about a year now and making 2 player runs do indeed take quite a bit more effort than 1 player runs. Both of us will need a break from making them by the time we're done with this ring attack. This certainly won't be the last 2 player run we'll make though. I've looked through some of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ) to see if I can spot any major improvements. They look more than okay to me. It's almost as if Evil's skill level suddenly shot up when he started tasing MGZ. I am however planning on redoing ICZ2. I wanna attempt to get the music back for the 2nd half of the level using the invincibility monitor without losing any time and I think I found a good route that'll allow me to do just that. Plus I spotted a few potential improvements. Also here's some info that might be helpful for you in the future. You see that Tails respawn delay timer? You can cancel out of it at any time by pressing A, B or C. That's how I've been able to manipulate some of Tails' respawn positions in my recent tases.
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Evil_3D wrote:
I'm a little exhaust with 2 players.
Understandable. We've been at this for quite a while now and I'm getting a little tired of making 2 players tases myself. At least there isn't much left.
Evil_3D wrote:
There are some minor errors in the game wich can be confused with heavy glitches. In a glitchless run we need to ban the most heavy breaking game glitches as: Horizontal Underflow Zips Slope glitch / Switch gravity glitch / Carry glitch Screen warp Wheel glitch (CNZ) Don't abuse of the sky boundary error ( you can skip big portions of some level with this) Don't clip surfaces (Stair clips and glide clip as Knux) For me take advantage of frame rules, luck manipulation and little tricks to save time it's ok as long as they respect the rules above.
I'm okay with those conditions. I was just saying you should also avoid weird interactions like floating in midair during the LBZ1 Knuckles cutscene to avoid controversy.
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Nice job on the glitchless run. Are you planning on make a full run out of this? I wouldn't suggest jumping out of the teacup early during the Knuckles cutscene because it makes you float in midair in an unnatural manner. Also I should warn you that resyncing the ring attack will take me quite a bit longer than it did last time. I kinda have a busy week ahead me and I may not have a good opportunity to work on it until the weekend.
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