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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
Also, did you try a 9-bar shot on Cobra before going with the full one? If the damage you deal with your shots is the same as on normal difficulty, a 9-bar shot should finish him off. I say this because I compared the enemy energy bar in your movie to the one in my speedrun segment. The level of the enemy bar in my segment appears to be the same when I use a 9-bar shot as when you use the full charge in your movie. Hopefully that makes some sense.
I just did a preview of how I use to defeat him on my way, a 9 bar shot can kill him too but, you need to deal good damage when you destroy his shield and maybe without a bomb it takesa few shots to kill him as well, about Griffin fight, I tried find few ways but noone worked, giving me just 12~13 seconds on him, but one thing I noticed , is when you destroy the armor and its show the vulnerable point your turbo shots can deal even more damage, so I have to find the best way to destroy his armor in 1 or 2 short shots then finish him using turbo shots, I will improve Cobra fight as well, but I need to find the best way as well for arachnus to find the best way the glitch wiilll kill
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Hello guyz, Im getting used to see TAS technics ,however, on TASes I never saw anyone running out of life and going into continue screen to make it save time, it kinda worked for x2poet's metal slug X run... but feeling dying so much to the point to go to a continue screen seem a bit diferent but worked well on this run to save time, maybe then it should be added as a new objective since it may work in a few games?
Not that I feel bothered by all that but when I was watching TAS from begining people always should avoid deaths or damage to make the run kinda pure, but then they decided to take deaths and damage to save time and make it faster, now using continues to save time seem a new way to save time as well.
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Hey guyz, I'm reanalizing the project, I did some improviments, improved Garam time in 0'00"07 secs, trying to improve on Viscount now but somes strategyes I'm trying arent working, will just finish viscout then will post WIP for analize, just a bit more of patience please
EDIT> Oh the improvement on Garam was because I did his RNG behavior on map screen, cliking on some diferent position may give diferent behavior, that was zakky who told that right?
Another Edit> Allright guyz, WIP until cobra is here, I skiped arachnus because I'm trying to get lower time than zakky time which is giving me a headache, also it helps to manipulates RNG ... hope so, on this WIP I did many improviments on Viscount, Anubis and Griffin fight.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/559129466/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Falcon%27s%20Revenge.smv
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Hello again guyz, I'm ready for another project of mine, its the fourth one... currently working on the third as well but working on 2 projects cheers me up instead of only 1... this doesnt mean I'm going to abandon any project, I finish them until the end...ok stop the blarbiring and lets talk about this one...
Well, I choose this one because its a nice one from my childhood and I did watched the rejected one...(BLERCH)I'm not a pro taser yet but I sure got an eye to identify such flaws and lack of optmization, well I decided to pick this one because its a good game to TAS but there is a thing thats bothers me ... on a multiplayer game people just control 1 player... most tased games that are 2 player sure did improved over 1 player games, not only by speed, but by entertaiment as well... so I did a research at youtube to find if someone TASed this one, well I did, watched, and saw things that could´ve been improved, I want to pick this one to make the best possible, and I'm going for sure use 2 PLAYERS on this one, already configured keyboad to this and did a WIP about the first stage... but there is another problem as well, since I am aiming for FASTEST(input)TIME I sure took the best characters around,Rabio and Lepus, they are the strongest of all the plane(they´re animals lolleth) and its very hard to find a gameplay of both of them at internet... so it could amuse most of the watchers by watching a TAS with both strongest planes taking mercilessly all enemies and dont even giving a chance for the boss to attack...
Here is a WIP of stage 1 with both of them:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1060265297/Aero%20Fighters.smv
I'm aware of somes rules, this may or not , break the rules as well, so I would like someone to confirmate for me if its possible to make an exception? but I'm using them not to make it a cheap run, but to make it the fastest one... and I did watched the rejected ones, they were sloopy, I'm not going to make the same mistake... and what u guyz think about a newer like me already doing a 2P run? is it foolish or dareous?
EDIT: allright, I found the super hard mode, so I have to reset the project as well.
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I'm almost finishing a WIP until arachnus, when its ready I post for u guyz download and tell how is it k?
Very busy lately and working on another project as well, but dont worry, never going to give up this one until its done.
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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
Been looking at trying to find a good strategy for Cobra just out of my own curiosity. How did you go about destroying the shield? In normal, I shoot at the small dot in the center of the shield and if it hits right, it destroys the shield. Does it require more shots in hard or are you able to one shot the shield?
As for Groken, I guess it really ends up relying on her patterns. It appears fairly straightforward what you need to do to defeat her, though you still have to decide how to do it. All I know is that you destroy the tentacle tips, the snakes, and then her weak points opens briefly and if you hit it, she's done for. The only other thing of note is that a 10-shot charge with the Tornado will damage her, even despite her armor. However, it will still reflect back. It's probably mostly luck, but I have the feeling there can be some manipulation to get her to perform some attacks sooner.
Sorry, couldn't answer yesterday because I was very busy, Cobra on hard mode is really hard, because he always keep draining your shots, so a good strategy is, when the battle begins , he will first drain your shot when it get to the second bar, so when ur charge gets to the second bar just waste 1 bar to make him absorb your shot, you will keep 1 bar and will keep charging before he attemps to stop the drain and shot to you, when you are almost on the 3rd bar you have to shot it almost right before the 3rd bar, because a 2nd 90% shot is somehow stronger than 3 bars... there is a very small interval when he stop drains and get ready to shot, so you have to make sure to hit his shield with 2 and90% bars or lower to make it quicker and destroy his shield, so when the shield is destroyied the stun time will be great, you will have time enough to charge around 7/8 bars, I use a bomb to stun him a bit to make enough charge , when the charge is full, just shot it on the lower body(the one thats bright red if hit) a full charge will sometimes kill him imediately or remove 98-99% of his life gauge, so you can finish him using turbo shots...
I think his lower body is vulnerable just like Siamang tails, think its possible to make it just like nitsuja did, will test it later and post the result here.
Groken is really straight forward, her patterns will almost be the same, just have to make good manipulation to make her not shot that machinegun on the bottom of her ST twice or 3 times.... I'm trying to find a weak point with full charge but no sucess until now, think only the middle when exposed is possible
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Well, I think we can keep going on the boss fights right? since most of them got locked strategies? ... how about Cobra and Groken ? I got a time of 13"91 on Cobra, my main strategy is to destroy his shield immediately and then make a super charge, use a bomb to distract then conplete charge and shot his lower body, its destroy him on one shot, however, I think his lower body is vulnerable just like Siamang tail, think its possible to get better time with that strategy, I will try it at saturday you guyz surely can give it a try.
Groken will be a bit hard... since she doesnt have any visible weak point, my main strategy for her is to destroy both hands and keep the charge at 0 until the tentacle thing comes out... its going to be a pain almost like arachnus because of her behaviors about charge ... my best time on her were 20"91 but got it only once and not recorded it omg...
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nitsuja wrote:
Here are some faster Tornado times: 2"61 on Siamang and 4"83 on Wong.
Are we sure about starting from SRAM being okay for this game? I don't know of any published TASes that start from SRAM out of convenience instead of necessity.
Omg, superb times... I will have to restart my progress then... will not be much wasted since you and zakky found great improvments...
About SRAM... I think its ok about the code for harder level but about Tornado I'm a bit worried since she is a secret character,however, its just change gameplay style and dont give that much advantage... I think it not break any rules... right?
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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
It took a lot of doing, but I managed to record something decent. I managed to pull off the Arachnus glitch to beat him in 7"90. It's not optimized (though I may go back and try to do that to see how much that affects the time), but maybe it'll provide some answers.
Here's the link: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1981230638/Metal%20Combat-Falcon%27s%20Revenge-Arachnus%20Glitch.smv
Pretty much I tried to get a pattern where he went offscreen to the right briefly. This particular pattern ended up being very good for pulling off the glitch as I could consistently reload the save state from the start of the battle and repeat it as long as I followed the same plan and executed it properly.
What really needs to happen for the glitch to work is that when you fire the shot, the screen has to be overloaded with objects. I apologize for not explicitly saying that before. That's why I was going on about the screen needing to be full of asteroid explosions, bullets, etc.
In order to pull this off, I manipulated Arachnus with a bomb when my gauge was at 2 bars. At the very least it was a delay to give enough time to charge to 7. Also, it was important that Arachnus started right away through a field of asteroids. When the gauge reaches 7, the shot is fired and you'll notice at this point the really awful lag due to so many objects being on screen. This is, to my knowledge, the key to this glitch working. Once the shot hits, it decimates him. I don't know if that's the fastest speed I've ever seen his energy drain at due to the glitch, but it's at the very least very close.
Hopefully that helps. This isn't easy to explain, so if you need me to try to explain better, by all means let me know.
EDIT: I went back and optimized the bomb timing and the shot timing, to the the best of my knowledge. The time is now 7"16 and there's no damage taken. If it's possible to fire the bomb and the shot even earlier, you can probably get it sub 7 seconds with the right pattern.
Here's the link: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/333406993/Metal%20Combat-Falcon%27s%20Revenge-Arachnus%20Glitch%20Optimized.smv
Yeah it worked now, just have to make better manipulations I got same time as yours first try, around 9"00... thanks a lot for that...now Nitsuja found better way to kill Siamang and Wong I will try improve that ... man such nice kills, think we will manage to closes the in-game time in around 2'30"00+/- lolz
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dunnius wrote:
In Soviet Russia SNES Lamborghini - American Challenge, speeding tickets pay you!
Yes vote from me for the entertaining last part of the game, and skipping almost the entire game with the underflow glitch. We need a count of the number of drivers going the opposite direction that probably crapped themselves with that crazy driving. :D
I did check how many trucks I avoided on the last 4 stages,
Race1: 14
Race2: 26
Race3: 18
Race4: 29, total of 87 trucks avoided without conting the cars at the right side
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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
Okay, did some more tests with the Arachnus glitch. Got a 9"90 and a 9"58. I still think it's possible to get better than that, but it's going to take some extreme luck with patterns that I haven't quite gotten yet. I think I might have, but I couldn't pull off the shot and didn't make a save state to reload from to go back and get it right.
I wish I knew how in the world these attack patterns were determined. Arachnus is the most vexing of all them because everything you do has the potential to alter his pattern and usually does. On the other hand, this could possibly be used to manipulate him into doing something advantageous to you, but usually he doesn't.
EDIT: Oh, also, one thing I can tell you about the attack patterns is that they're determined between the map screen and the battle screen. Once you press the trigger to go from the map screen into battle at some point between the map screen fading out and the stage screen fading in it determines the pattern your opponent will use. I found this out when I was using save states to practice for my console run. If I saved a state after the battle screen had loaded, every time I reloaded the pattern would be the same. However, if I reloaded from the map screen I could get different patterns.
I'm still trying the glitch on him, didnt got sucess yet...there is a right place on his body to shot ?
About attack pattern, I noticed that the world screen depends on the place you click and then when your scope is aimed may give some different pattern to the enemy as well, another way to manipulate the patterns that I found is just to change enemys, at hard mode you can choose which enemy you wish to fight if its available, like the 5 first bosses, I skiped Garam just because of his pattern, got the best one after Wong, it should help to reach some good pattern to Arachnus as well.
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CoolKirby wrote:
The last four levels were just crazy! Yes vote for high speed no-damage reckless driving.
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Well, its same as 3 ... just have to avoid enemies, I goes on the wrong way as a trade-off... avoiding cars at high speed is funny heh!
If a slower route was chosen for entertainment, then you might want to include the goal "Uses speed/entertainment tradeoffs". (I'm saying this because you mentioned a "trade-off"; I don't know if the route you took was optimal or not.)
Oh, I wanted to mean, I can go to right or left ways, both will lend you to the end at same time , but trade-off means to show something funny while doing the run without wasting any time right?
Should I write entertaiment/speed Trade-offs at game objectives?
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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
Do you mean the link to the topic isn't working? If that's the case, this link should work properly:
http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/metal_combat__falcons_revenge_speedrun.html
Are you at Thanatos or Virvius right now? I'm guessing Thanatos, since that makes the most sense, but I don't want to assume, especially because it does make a difference.
As for videos, I don't know that I actually had one of a Thanatos battle with the Tornado. I can tell you what my strategy was and hopefully it might help you come up with one for hard mode.
The key to my strategy was to go for his shoulders. Pattern luck was also necessary. I need him to give me enough time to charge a level 5 shot. Usually this requires him to go offscreen, but not always. When he rears up for a charged shot, I peg him in the shoulder and quickly follow up with a bomb to delay him. This allows me to charge up another level 5 shot and peg him in the other shoulder. I immediately follow up with another bomb, but aim it right at his head, so I do damage to both of his shoulders. This actually destroys them both at the same time causing massive damage and a level 3 shot is enough to finish him off.
My time was 9"45. I'll run a test and see if it's possible to do this on hard mode. I can also dig out the video, as well.
And back to enemy behavior, yes. Actually, there are several factors I have noticed. Where your charge bar is at can make a difference in what your opponent does, as well as each shot you fire and how strong a shot you fired. Bombs also can cause pattern changes. I think Arachnus is the most reactive to everything action you take. One thing that may or may not matter for Giga-Desp 1, in normal mode, he will expose his weak point a lot sooner if your charge bar is empty. I'm not sure how it works in hard mode, but that may be something you should watch out for.
One last thing, if you aren't already aware of it, there's a glitch for a fast kill of Arachnus with the Tornado. I haven't yet been able to get it to work on hard mode, though, so I don't know if it will work. I'll give that a few more tries and let you know how it works out.
EDIT: I verified that at my Thanatos strategy on normal will work in Hard. With some reloading and frame advance I was able to get a 9"25 on Thanatos. Here's a video of that Thanatos strategy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg59jTK48Zg
The Arachnus glitch will also work. Here's a video of me pulling it off in normal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLQQPn59rQM
Apologies for the video quality on both, hopefully you can make out enough to know what's going on.
Now regarding the Arachnus glitch, what I've found needs to happen for this to work is that there have to be a lot of objects on screen at once. Asteroid explosions work really well for this. Also, the charge bar needs to be at least 7 for it to work. For hard mode, the real challenge will be not only be getting Arachnus to have a favorable pattern, have him travel through a field of asteroids, and have him destroying them as your charge meter is at the right level all while making sure it happens fast enough to be worth doing.
But if you can pull it off, it's a great trick to use. Even more so because it's on an opponent halfway through the game.
Im at Thanatos right now, I´ve been busy and didnt got much time to make much progress on the run but I´m sure doing a few day-by-day.
Thanatos strategy is great man, i´ve been trying and did just around 14"00, now with your strategy i got 9"20...about his pattern strategy I think its a bit hard but just have luck to get his behavior right... have to make him move earlier than us to get some time to charge then you will have enough time to charge and shot before a shot can cometo you...
Arachnus is a great pain, what was your time in hard mode using the glitch? i tried a bit but its very hard, his pattern didnt brought him to an asteroid field and he didnt destroyed any to make my shot glitch on him...
Man thanks a lot for the advices, they are very useful, really useful
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ZakkyDraggy wrote:
Just watched your WIP. Very impressive!
As for real mode or normal mode, I think real mode is probably the best. I like following the storyline, too, but if you're going for speed the combined amount of time going through story text would add up to a bit more than the time actually spent battling and make it less entertaining. That said, also, it's definitely more impressive to see this done on real mode because it's so much harder to be quick. I'm going to have to go back and watch the Wong battle again because I totally wasn't expecting that one shot kill.
As for the enemy behavior...yeah. Back when I was doing my speed run for SDA, I was hoping I could figure out something about that. I'm clueless about all of that sorta stuff, unfortunately, though. The only thing I can say is that loading from a Continue, be it after losing or by just quitting on the map screen and picking up where you left off later, affects the behavior. I noticed that it locks the enemy into a set group of patterns and there's nothing you can do to change it after that. I know that's not very useful, but maybe by some chance it might offer some insight at some point.
Yay man thanks for watch, Im at Anubis now, trying a good time being very careful... he got hard weak points...
About enemy behavior... I´'ve read the luck manipulations guide... there said sometimes a boss can behave not because of input manipulations but the way your character is ... this case the charger... somes boss act differently dependents on the charge bars... but not work on all of them, it worked at viscount to make him slide twice so i could charge all the blaster... it will work at groken and giga-desp as well as i´ve tried... i tried find your file at SDA but there said it has been deleted?
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Patashu wrote:
The final three races look ridiculously hard to dodge everything on in real time. Is that an accurate assumption?
Oh yeah the last 4 races are almost impossible in real time to go all the way without a single damage... i did perfect accuracy because with at least 3% damage on my car the gambling screen should show up before races... it could increase around 2 seconds of the run and your assumption is right .
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The movie is very nice, faster than the 1P movie , however, LAG kill a lot of the improviments... I did vote YES!
why the characters get the colors like that?
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boct1584 wrote:
If you want to know more about how the RNG controls enemy behavior, you're gonna have to do a lot of research and most likely disassemble the ROM itself to figure it out.
Damn... think its not up to me then =(, low computer skills
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Oh I forgot to say one thing... how that RNG thing works here? because I did Garam behave how I wanted ... but i couldnt use inputs to make him behave different... i had to choose a diferent route to make him behave the way i wanted
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boct1584 wrote:
I would suggest you post your WIPs after every boss.
Your WIP thus far looks surprisingly good for the number of rerecords. I wouldn't have thought this game was that easy to optimize.
However, I'd like to go on the record as thinking that Real Mode shouldn't be used, because it eliminates the storyline elements, which I personally enjoyed a lot when I was playing the game.
All right then, I post a WIP after I finish every single bosses...
Well before re record i just try it frame by frame hmm and I'm having great luck on optmization heh! ;p
Well, you´re right about real mode... it kills the storylines and you dont even see a single face or chat until the end...but also removes a lot of the known hard gameplay... which should be the ace of the video... since in real time its almost impossible to do such times and quick shots with such precision ,however, in hard mode the ST defenses are the same as in the normal mode... its just change is the boss pression over you.
Doing on Normal mode should save a lot of In-game time but should take more real time since there are many dialogues...
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Well the real entertain begins after the glitch, on the last 4 races its veryhard control the car without hitting in another car... I tried the best to make it at least entertaining enough even knowing its hard to optmize that T_T
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Well, I did a time of 15"40 on viscount... the adjust aim trick helped save 1"50 seconds ... gotta know if someone got better time.... if want the wip just ask and I post here
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