Posts for neo_omegon


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Posts: 295
No need to be in haste, Yagamoth. I enjoy your YouTube channel. I don't have a YouTube channel currently, so I say this here. Thanks!
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Any progress, Yagamoth? Sorry if this trick is known well, but according to this video around 3:00-, Minotaur can be skipped. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30763405
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Sorry, for a long time no post or reply, but I've been studying this game and found some better routes and optimal ways. For example, in Eastern Palace, thanks to pixel portation, I no longer have to go into the dark room to get a big key without Cane of Somaria, which was come upon from the way of which was performed by Superskuj with Somaria glitch. And now I'm using impromptu hitboxes with addresses of positions of the player and enemies and a camera, though I couldn't get width and height addresses. Also, scrolling text messages were automated. [on snes9x]
function autoMsg()
	windowBox = memory.readword(0x7E0010)
	msg = memory.readbyte(0x7E1CE9) - 1
	msgWait = memory.readbyte(0x7E1CE0)
	gui.text(64, 0, string.format("%d %d %X", msg, msgWait, windowBox))
	if windowBox == 0x20E then
		if msg == 0 then
			joypad.set(1, {A=1})
		end
	end
end
If 7E1CE0 gets a value except 0, you have to scroll text messages manually. [on BizHawk]
memory.usememorydomain("WRAM")
function autoMsg()
	windowBox = memory.readbyte(0x0010) + memory.readbyte(0x0011) * 0x100
	msg = memory.readbyte(0x1CE9)
	msgWait = memory.readbyte(0x1CE0)
	gui.pixelText(64, 0, string.format("%d %d %X", msg, msgWait, windowBox))
	if windowBox == 0x20E then
		if msg == 0 then
			joypad.set({A=1},1)
		end
		if (msgWait > 0) then
			joypad.set({A=1},1)	
		end
	end
end
Sometimes, Somaria glitch on snes9x v1.43 has too many lags, so someone who study this game and use the glitch should not use snes9x v1.43. A new tas has been longly waited and I'd like to improve my run, but I've been busy in real life and still can't afford to buy a new PC, which means BizHawk is still heavy on my PC, sorry. I've started thinking about including the number of bombs and arrows upgrades in a 100% tas, because we can get infinite rupee easily thanks to a YBA with blue potion.
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Thank you, SeanCass.
SeanCass wrote:
1) ALttP has a discord where you can talk to plenty of people far more educated with ALttP in a TAS environment than I am... and here's the invite: https://discord.gg/Jx5fuUp
I've not known discord. Well, I am not good at English. I might not join it near future, but thanks anyway.
SeanCass wrote:
2) SuperSKUJ has done tons of investigation into glitches and their implications, much of it is documented on his youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXlk2kGuRY1DDzrrUQXdfDQ
I've aleady known it, but thanks for informing me of it. I refered to a lot of his videos. He is awesome. I'm looking forward to his next work. Defining a ruleset may be a headache. Maybe, more of the members should be involved in discussion. But I personally think author can decide freely in the end. Now, PoD is accessible from Skull Woods. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/537906622/Alttp-PoD-from-SkullWoods.smv I'll use this route in my next 100% run. This is faster mainly because of Cane of Somaria (no pushing statue), YBA and Lvl.4 sword. (Note: Goriya room is slow. Using three Silver Arrows and then dashing is about 60 frames faster.)
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Even faster Ganon's Tower to get the Big Key. Now, we can skip Ice Armos. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/82204983/Alttp-SkipIceArmos.smv
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Sorry for a triple post, but I found a new strategy in Ganon's Tower for a 100%. Red mail can be obtained without YBA. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1801274742/Alttp-Ultimate-Ganon%27s-Tower.smv Just after I got a Big Key, Mirror had to be used because camera could not be fixed. (i.e. If you go to get a red mail directly without Mirror, you'll be stacked in a wall.) This route is apparently slower because Mirror is used twice, but in the end it is faster because shopping time is saved. (Note: Magic Power should be saved somewhere through a run.) edit: And this is a faster Grampa route with using the same trick. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/232237072/Alttp-fasterGrampa.smv
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Today, I'll post four short SMVs. (Sorry for using a deprecated emulator. I've not bought a new PC, yet.) Left plus right are used in these tricks. First, faster Castle Escape (with EG). -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1238097026/Alttp-fasterCastleEscape.smv I was hinted by Mr. Tompa's published any% TAS, and tried this route of the castle escape. It is faster. Note: I should not take damage in order to get red rupees from the tree. By the way, as for rupee route, getting rupees from chest games in the forest (need 100 rupees at first) is faster than from trees, an Eastern Palace's box, Sahasrahla's house, and so on. And since the new Ganon's Tower's shortcut saves several arrows, manipulating the prize packs of the arrows, getting 100 rupees in the chest game in the village of outcasts and not obtaining 300 rupees in the village might be faster. Second, just before Agahnim battle, I succeeded in canceling the teleportation of Zelda without YBA. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1386604730/Alttp-withoutTeleportation.smv This is obviously faster. Third, faster Mountain Tower. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1926831863/Alttp-fasterMt.Tower.smv At the entrancehall, I used a trick. This is principally the same as the failure version of the new Ganon's Tower's shortcut, I think. This trick might be useful in other places. As for the shourtcut in Ganon's Tower, thanks to left plus right, conveyor is not necessary. Last, a funny way of getting Mirror Shield. -> http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1860809095/Alttp-funnyGettingMirrorShield.smv You can obtain Big Keys many times, if you stop this movie in midstream and check the Big Box. Sadly, this is slower in the end, even though you get only one Big Key.
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The order of the dungeons after I bought potions in my 100% tas was that: Skull -> Swamp -> Ice -> MountainTower -> TurtleRock -> Mire(red potion) -> Desert -> Ganon's Tower(green potion x2). Now, in Ganon's Tower, one green potion is enough. If I change the order of the dungeons and if I buy a red potion in Kakariko Village just before Skull, then I can use YBAs in four dungeons. Like this: MountainTower -> Mire(red potion) -> Desert(green potion) -> (buy a red potion) Skull -> TurtleRock -> Swamp(red potion) -> Ice -> Ganon's Tower(green potion). EDIT: After Ice Palace, there is a shop near on my way. I forget it. I can buy a red potion there. So, the order of the dungeon might not have to be changed. Skull -> Swamp(red potion) -> Ice (buy a red potion) -> MountainTower -> TurtleRock -> Mire(red potion) -> Desert(green potion) -> Ganon's Tower(green potion).
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Yes. It's the 4th character. Sorry for my bad English. edit: Btw, there is another time saver. Shopping should be done at Kelb after getting a Hiryuu Sou. PhoenixDowns for ZombieDragons can be obtained from a box in AncientLibrary and MoogleVillage. -Opening the box: 33 x 2 = 66 frames -Shopping at Bal: 36 steps detour -Shopping at Kelb: 16 steps detour i.e. (36-16)x8 - 66 = 94 frames faster (Note: NPC's RNG needs to be researched again.)
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Unfortunately, !Hide is no longer used in TwinTania battle. Instead of !Hide, Lenna is also going to learn !Mix. Here is the plan of Lenna's Chemist ABP: SkullEaterx4(20ABP)+PutiChariotx3(1ABP)+TyraSaurus(9ABP)+Abductor(2ABP)+GabbleDegack(2ABP)+Atmos(12ABP)=46ABP Here are the differences from my testRun. Lenna is TimeMage with !Mix in the SealGuardians battle, so the battle is slightly faster. This offsets additional job-changing time of Lenna. Lenna is Blue with !Mix from ExDeath Castle. Faris is Blue with !Mix from just before Meryugene. It is not necessary to make Butz Thief with !Mix before Catastroph. Elixir is used to Krile before Catastroph. EDIT3: I think swapping Faris's job change plan for Lenna's from Puroboroses to the meeting with Gido. By doing so, I can dash after Zeza died because Faris is Chemist with Dash at that time. Faster TwinTania battle Lenna: Samson Power to TwinTania (a little wait in order to make Faris faster than Lenna) Krile: DarkShock Butz: Lvl.2 OLD TwinTania: Attack Butz Faris: Lvl.5 Death (Note: One AntiDote is to be bought.) More faster TwinTania battle Lenna: Samson Power to TwinTania as fast as possible Krile: Wait and DarkShock TwinTania: Attack Butz to skip his turn Lenna: Lvl.2 OLD Faris: Lvl.5 Death (Note: AntiDotes are to be bought.) Before FinalExDeath, Menu is no longer opened. Butz is not alive in the final ExDeath battle. The battle is going to be that. Lenna: DarkShock (as fast as possible) Krile: Lvl.2 OLD ExDeath: WhiteHole(missed) Lenna/Faris: Kiss of Blessing Faris/Lenna: Lvl.5 Death EDIT3: Hope Lenna is faster than Faris in order to avoid many cursor movements from DarkShock to Lvl.5 Death. I learned faster TwinTania battle from Yu-ki(Hs), thanks. I hope he will visit here someday. So, please give him a warm welcome. EDIT: Samson Power's animation is faster than DarkShock's, so Apanda battle with Samson Power is theoretically faster, even considering the time of changing Butz's ability slot. (He is the fastest character in the battle.) Still, it seems up to the number of evasion without AegisShield. If this is adopted, Butz is Thief with !Mix after Meryugene. EDIT2: I successfully defeated Adamantium without being attacked. Silver Armlet has to be removed from Butz. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1074509462/ff5-adamantium.smv
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Posts: 295
I see. Well, everyone is tasing on BizHawk without complaining it if it's heavy. I think I should make a run. But not now. Lvl.5 Death Learing Battle is improvable. Getting 2000GP at the basement when escaping Karnak Castle. And buying two more thunderRods and then use them in the battle. Getting 2000GP is a detour, but in the end, it's nearly 200 frames faster on snes9x. EDIT: Making 32 page attack Lenna and making her wounded and then skipping her turn is faster than making 32 page attack defensing Faris. So it is more faster.
samurai goroh wrote:
As a side note, have you contemplated on doing a run on the GBA version (VBA is still allowed and should run faster than Bizhawk). Or if not, maybe trace a route for it. I had my thoughts on making a run but because I would need to make a new route for it (no infinite money glitch), I discarded that idea.
No. Ah, I now remember that there is a heavy glitch on the GBA version. http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%CE%A2%B5%BB%A1%A6%A5%D0%A5%B0%2F%A1%DA%A5%A2%A5%A4%A5%C6%A5%E0%CA%D1%B2%BD%A1%DB#FF5GBA The principal of the glitch is swapping an item and the fourth command of the monster. Item ID and monster's special attack ID are corresponding. For example, you can get runningShoes from Aegir. You can also learn specific Blue Magics if you restore the enemy's MP by Ether after or before you swap the IDs. Blue Magics automatically target the lowest character. Method: 1. The lowest character controls a monster. 2. The character with !Throw or !Mix or !Drink or !Combine opens the item window, puts the cursor on the top-right, press L and cancel. 3. Select !Throw or !Mix or !Drink or !Combine and cancel. 4. Open the item window and swap top-right and top-left and then press Up and press Down and then cancel. And infinite item stolen glitch on the GBA version is available with a different method. http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%CE%A2%B5%BB%A1%A6%A5%D0%A5%B0%2F%A1%DA%A5%A2%A5%A4%A5%C6%A5%E0%C1%FD%BF%A3%A1%DB#FF5GBA Infinite item stolen glitch on the GBA version is not available once the lowest character controls a monster. Method: 1. Put the item which you want to increase on the top-left. Or put a blank on the top-left if you don't have the item which you want to increase. 2. The character with !Throw opens the item window, puts the cursor on the top-right, press L and cancel. 3. Select !Throw and cancel. 4. Open the item window and swap top-right and top-left and then press Up and press Down and then cancel. 5. Throw the top-left blank twice. 6. Steal.
Experienced Forum User, Player, Published Author (158)
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Posts: 295
Thank you for a feedback and researching paralyzing and aging things, samurai goroh. As you predicted it, I re-recorded on snes9x, sorry. The quality of the testrun is insane. The route and strategy are fixed. There are few points to improving. Basically, to make a to-be-submitted run will be to copy inputs. The movie length of a to-be-submitted run might be longer because of many lags. input file: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/203594161/ff5-tas-v3-sklEtr-chart-testRun.smv savestatesPack: http://www.mediafire.com/download/10w34y7ue91dpgb/ The number of total battles(7E09C0): 110. The number of saves and resets: 3. I'll write about this run in detail below. Item arrangement at the end of Alcheoavis battle was wrong. Shuriken, ThunderRod, ThunderScroll, etc. should be put below. Not selling these items are faster. And the reason I equipped Butz with AncientSword at that time was he was sometimes faster than Lenna in the battle against ChimeraBrain. Rod's attack animation is slower than sword's. Plus, I delayed closing an item window in order to reduce lag. When you run away, there is always one frame difference. I've not noticed this in the world one, so running aways in the first world might be improvable. Magic and special attacks from enemies should be taken by upper character. It's slightly faster. I showed in Karlabos's tailScrew, Siren's libra, etc.
Skipping the next character's command window or not can be manipulated by waiting some frames in inputting the prior character's command window.
I've not fully understood this trick in the early part. So it might be improvable. The segment from the first cave to the savepoint in the FireShip, I encountered a few unavoidable battles on the world map. Maybe, the save should be loaded in different timing and a different walking plan should be made. In Magisa battle, Fire is faster than Thunder. But making Lenna faster than Butz was more faster. Using Hi-potion to Faris just after Garula enables you to be in front row in the battle against LiquidFlame. You only have to make Faris defend and LiquidFlame act an normal attack to Faris. The reason I didn't do that was I miscalculated money. Still, battle RNG is initialized by reset and I tried LiquidFlame battle in front row but I couldn't get the ideal pattern. (Front row should be tried in making a to-be-submitted run.) The problems on battle speed three are Abductor at Bal and Atmos. But changing battle speeds may be slower. Buying Ether at Bal is not necessary because I didn't use DarkShock to Catastroph. Ten frames were lost. Using Elixir from HiryuPlant to Krile just before final Ex-Death is enough. If DarkShock works against final Ex-Death very early, Lenna's second turn is faster than Faris, but in that case it's slower because of many cursor movements from DarkShock to select Lvl.5 Death and one more item usage to restore Lenna's MP on the menu before the battle. At Seal Guardians battle, making Lenna attacked and wounded and then to skip her turn might be faster. I tried it, but in that case, thief characters were not faster than enemies with bad RNG. I once dodged Antlion's special attack without AegisShield animation, but this time I couldn't.
When I pressed LR for one frame just at the end of the battle, victory message appeared one frame faster. But this trick seldom works. Pressing LR at the end of the battle almost always causes delaying the battle.
This trick is shown at Carfisteri. With bad RNG, I had to wait some frames in Krile's turn in the battle against Halicarnas. At TwinTania, I thought AtomicRay was faster in its animation itself, but in the end, Blizzard was faster. I may have mismeasured it. At the final Ex-Death, missing WhiteHole without AegisShield is faster than no-action. So, Apanda battle might be improvable. The main reasons I am not motivated to make a to-be-submitted run are that BizHawk is very heavy on my computer and I'm not up-to-date with BizHawk, especialy such as new syntax of luaScript and Macro and so on. Still, battle speed one and two, and Active have not been tested at all.
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Well, tentatively, I uploaded some new battles. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27935715 left: my dual tas. right: my new testrun.
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I watched this video today. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20412346 According to this video, whip works against Ifrit. However, this video was published in 2013. And the video uploader is a registered member in our site. And judging from over 500k viewers, other japanese tasers may have watched this video. What I can't understand is why they didn't notify us of this trick. If they are bad at English, they only had to make a japanese thread. Or are they making a new run? I believe tasing should be done publicly. Route and strategy should be well-discussed, especially if the run is submitted. However, because of the above event, I'm thinking whether I should post a new test run publicly or just PM it to samurai goroh and other members who asked me to. A lot of new techniques are found by me this month. The re-recording counts of my new test run are nearly 60k. I would not like to waste my time and efforts. Maybe, starting making the to-be-submitted run quickly and complete it rapidly are the best solution, but I can't now. Please suggest what I should do.
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Although different rupee route and one different YBA promise saving time, I regret to say that time will not be so different. Different emulators count different lags. Rupee route that I think about is that: Flippers(500r)+chestGame(30r)=530r are covered by Tree's(80rx4) + Eastern Palace's box with EG(100r) + Sahasrahla's(50rx2) + 20r from an enemy just before the boss room in EasternPalace = 540r I'm not now going to start making a to-be-submitted run. If anyone wants a new run, please go ahead.
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No feedback about my run? I feel a little bit sad. According to RTA speedrunner's video, Somaria Glitches in my 100% run are improvable. The directions when I used SomariaStaff were bad. New YBA, or YBA with poke sword, has been found. I tried it and successfully reproduced it. And I measured which YBA saved time most on my 100% route, though the results may be apparent without testing. Here are the results. Some of the results were gotten from just comparing my 100% TAS with Mr. Tompa's current published TAS, thanks. Classical YBA in mire (red potion): saved 1835 frames. New YBA in swamp (red potion): saved 2247 frames. Switch was pressed with SomariaStaff. Classical YBA on 1F in Ganon's Tower (green potion): saved 2312 frames. New YBA in desert (green potion): saved 4328 frames. Classical YBA from fairy room in Ganon's Tower (green potion): saved 6844 frames. I don't measure how many frames faster YBA in PoD is, because there is no way to access a bottle and a red potion at that time. Maybe, it would be a similar result with YBA in mire. Obtaining a bottle and a potion at that time is a detour on my 100% route. It might be slower. So, buying green potion x3 is the fastest, but the problem is if you once perform new YBA, graphic is always buggy, which might look bad and might make TASing difficult. The audience cannot know what is happening. EDIT: This route is obsoleted.
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When I pressed LR for one frame just at the end of the battle, victory message appeared one frame faster. But this trick seldom works. Pressing LR at the end of the battle almost always causes delaying the battle. My new test run is now almost finished. The expected time is 3hh20mm.
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In any battles, there are random lags. Ultimately and idealistically, every RNG pattern even in easy battles should be tried and then the fastest pattern has to be adopted. But it's up to TASers. What is important is that the fastest timing of opening the fastest character's command window or no-waiting frame to manipulate is not always the fastest. Skipping the next character's command window or not can be manipulated by waiting some frames in inputting the prior character's command window. I think random battles on BigBridge are determined by NPC's RNG, 7E16A7. As for NPC's manipulation, there are only limited places, I think. Pushing Moogle in Moogle Village and Moogle Cave. I accidentally found a new Catastroph strategy. Just slashing with AncientSword. OLD works.
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About !Hide thing, you're right!
At the beginning of the battle against Sandworm, the timing of opening the first command window is variable. There are nearly 100 frames difference between the fastest timing and the slowest timing.
This is also applied to SolCannon. Its difference is not as significant as SandWorm's case. It is about 40 frames difference. It might be applied to other battles. About Sandworm, one WaterScroll and Shurikenx3 by four Ninjas or two WaterScroll and one Shuriken will be the strategy in the next run. So, it will be a little easier. About the battle itself, four Ninjas strategy is the fastest. Major improvements of the next run will be: -Battle speed three through the game -Fewer random battles -SkullEaters instead of Statues Some more tested battles: -When I defeated CrayClaw, throwing ThunderScrollx2 was faster. Ninjas were quick, so TailScrew message was skipped. BlueMage and selecting ThunderRod and its animation were slower. -At the battle against Adamantium on battle speed three, just waiting at the first theif's turn and making two Ninjas wounded and skipping their turns were the fastest. So, MythrylShield is not necessary.
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As for front/back row thing, in the next run, almost all the battles will be done in front row. When you buy at the armor shop in Karnak, pressing Up key works. This reduces the number of cursor movements and is a few frames faster. At the beginning of the battle against Sandworm, the timing of opening the first command window is variable. There are nearly 100 frames difference between the fastest timing and the slowest timing. When only one character is alive if you choose !Hide, you automatically run away. This trick is not so well-known, I think, though, it might be irrelevant to speedrunnings. I have a slightly different job change strategy. I'm thinking about more usage of thief. With double thief with !Mix, Gargoyles can no longer move. One less attacks of Seal Guardians are possible. Although the number of job changes is larger, the battles look good. On my job change strategy, Butz learns !Blue at Atmos. After that, Butz is always theif. Changing ability slots is slightly faster than changing jobs. I wish I could make a run including these new features. Also, I'd like to perform a music game when I wait at TwinTania battle. It'll be more entertaining. But it's a long way. Optimizing extra steps and save and reset are tough work.
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Some more ideas: I think battle speed three is good. I tested some battles and there seemed no problem except for BlackFlames and Atomos. (It seemed odd that I couldn't manipulate BlackFlames on battle speed four.) Accurately, I could manipulate it, but it's suboptimal. I could not prevent a few BlackFlames from attacking. On battle speed three, the ally's defense just before the enemy the behavior of which you'd like to manipulate hardly seemed to affect it (, not 100% sure). So, I had to attack Atomos in order to manipulate their third behavior. About BlackFlames, that was RNG issue, not battle speed thing. Neither battle speed one nor two are tested. If it is good RNG, Karlabos can be defeated by thunderx5 and an attack with dagar. Shopping strategy can be improvable. You can skip an item shop at Lix and Karnak. Instead, let's go shopping at Val. PhoenixDawn for Tyrasaurus can be obtained by ChimeraBrain. Potions and antidotes are not necessary. MythrilShields might not be necessary. For SkullEaters strategy, I think defeating MogEaters by GPToss in order to get enough EXP. Though, I don't know whether it is faster or not than Statues strategy. edit: Lonely ZombieDragon might be faster. With a different walking strategy, you could defeat SandKiller and SandPorkyx2 (205 EXP each) by thunderScroll boosted with !Black instead of Bombx4 (225 EXP each).
-Lonely Zombie Dragon battle is not necessary. Zombie Dragon, Sting Eagle, and Drippy give enough EXP with statues and Gabbledegak for Butz to learn Lvl 2 old. Infinite item stolen glitch should be done in these three enemies battle.
Sorry, I was wrong. Infinite item stolen glitch should be done in lonely ZombieDragon battle. Defeating it is not necessary. EDIT: For skullEaters strategy, ABP: (statuex5)x3=24 is to puroboros+(skullEater)x4=25 EXP: (statuex5)x3=375 is to zombieDragon=412 I think every members should be in the front row at the final battle.
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I'm thinking about avoiding statues battles. One way I hit upon is to take advantage of SkullEaters at the end of the world one. If two battles are reduced from the current published run, five out of six battles are SkullEaters. If Faris is thief just before Sol Cannon, she learns dash. (If she is thief at the battle against Karlabos, she learns it earlier.) Making Butz and Faris Chemist, (Faris with dash), and Lenna Bard, just manipulating to let SkullEaters run away. Btw, I'm also thinking about save and reset is not so slow. If two or more than two battles are reduced by save and reset, it ends in faster. The problem is there seems infinite RNG pattern, it is beyond me.
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There are several ways to access a deep part of Turtle Rock. When you do mirror clip, if you hold Down key in the light world, it's a little faster. But as far as my run, save warp was the fastest. Even classical route with floating trick was faster than mirror clip way.
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Calofisteri's OLD could be missed without aegis shield. I came up with another idea and tested. At the battle against Sand Worm, one character without ability !Black should throw Shuriken or something instead of throwing water scroll. Shuriken's damage was over 600. Or with four Ninja, one water scroll boosted by !Black and Shirikenx3 might be possible.
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I found two time savers. -Lonely Zombie Dragon battle is not necessary. Zombie Dragon, Sting Eagle, and Drippy give enough EXP with statues and Gabbledegak for Butz to learn Lvl 2 old. Infinite item stolen glitch should be done in these three enemies battle. -When you go in and out submarine after Zezae died, waiting time becomes short. It is about 247 frames faster than just waiting.
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